topic Re: Where do I Stand? in Selling

Where do I Stand?

character_parties_aus — Wed, 22 Jun 2016 10:24:07 GMT

I recently sold a fully traceable item on ebay. Most of my items are date critical delivery as they are driven by an event. Express Post was available but not selected and rightly so as In this case the buyer correctly selected regular post Brisbane to Melbourne. Australia Post then took over two weeks to deliver the parcel. As the date for the event has passed the buyer refused delivery of the item and has told Aus Post to send it back and asked for a full refund including freight. The tracking backs this up 100%. At no point did they contact to say not received etc. so it could be escalated with aus post ( if there is any point) I am not unreasonable and am happy to refund the product cost back to the buyer once its back as its not their fault Aus Post were slack, and I am also chasing a refund from Aus Post for the sloppy delivery. If I get one I will give it to the buyer. When this item arrives back with me if the buyer puts in a claim ( they have not entered the returns process formally they only have a feedback score of 2 and probably dont understand it all ) what will happen? Will I be slugged with the entire cost of sale and then get slugged for the cost of an Australia Post return as well caused by their own ineptitude?!

Re: Where do I Stand?

bsal6160 — Wed, 22 Jun 2016 10:41:58 GMT

why are you blaming Aus Post for taking to long to deliver? the buyer should not rely on "just in time" delivery for event critical items. Poor judgement on buyers part.

The buyer has not followed the correct process either so how can you blame Aust Post for buyer for refusing the delivery?

Re: Where do I Stand?

curraone — Wed, 22 Jun 2016 10:44:04 GMT

@character_parties_aus wrote:
Will I be slugged with the entire cost of sale and then get slugged for the cost of an Australia Post return as well caused by their own ineptitude?!

yes

Re: Where do I Stand?

digital*ghost — Wed, 22 Jun 2016 12:12:40 GMT

@character_parties_aus wrote:
Australia Post then took over two weeks to deliver the parcel. As the date for the event has passed the buyer refused delivery of the item and has told Aus Post to send it back and asked for a full refund including freight. The tracking backs this up 100%.

While I empathise with the buyer, this is - in effect - a change of mind return (presuming you didn't personally guarantee an arrival date), so you're well within your rights to handle it the same way you handle those.

I'd be inclined to provide a goodwill gesture, personally, the same as I would in other cases where AP stuff up and don't deliver etc (my fault - no; my responsibility - debatable but nothing wrong with finding it acceptable 🙂 ).

INR doesn't apply, neither does SNAD since the goods were not even inspected - eBay's MBG policies cover this kind of case quite specifically, so if a request is open, to help avoid the system from automating a decision, call eBay and point out the tracking and this part of the policy to them:

"Generally, the buyer is responsible for accepting the item when it arrives. If the buyer refuses delivery, their claim is not eligible for eBay Money Back Guarantee."

http://pages.ebay.com.au/help/policies/money-back-guarantee.html

Re: Where do I Stand?

phorum_junkie* — Wed, 22 Jun 2016 12:41:34 GMT

For a time sensitive item I would not have given the buyer a choice, I woulod have quoted the express post cost and have used that service.

AP exclude consequential loss so the fact the delivery of a regular post item took longer than hoped for would not qualify it for compensation, even if it wer an express item delivered late youwould only get the cost of the postage refunded.

Re: Where do I Stand?

bettyboopsadaisy — Wed, 22 Jun 2016 22:40:01 GMT

While there is merit in the comments from other posts on this thread, I really don't think it was unreasonable to expect a parcel travelling betw. Brisbane and Melbourne to arrive in much less than 2 weeks.

I have a customer enquirey lodged with Aust. Post at present for a parcel which was posted on 8 / 6 from Sydney to Melbourne. The last lodgement scan was 9 / 6 and auspost's estimated delivery time is 4 business days. Today marks 10 business days since postage !!!

While it may be unwise to place blind faith in auspost's estimated delivery time, there is a big difference betw 4 and 10 business days. I think both I and my customer were not unrealistic in expecting the item to have reached its destination by now. (My item was not a date critical it terms of arrival time)

It would seem this is a comparable case. I can see why this is frustrating and annoying for both parties.

Re: Where do I Stand?

curraone — Wed, 22 Jun 2016 22:49:37 GMT

@character_parties_aus wrote:
I recently sold a fully traceable item on ebay. Most of my items are date critical delivery as they are driven by an event. Express Post was available but not selected and rightly so as In this case the buyer correctly selected regular post Brisbane to Melbourne. Australia Post then took over two weeks to deliver the parcel. As the date for the event has passed the buyer refused delivery of the item and has told Aus Post to send it back and asked for a full refund including freight. The tracking backs this up 100%. At no point did they contact to say not received etc. so it could be escalated with aus post ( if there is any point) I am not unreasonable and am happy to refund the product cost back to the buyer once its back as its not their fault Aus Post were slack, and I am also chasing a refund from Aus Post for the sloppy delivery. If I get one I will give it to the buyer. When this item arrives back with me if the buyer puts in a claim ( they have not entered the returns process formally they only have a feedback score of 2 and probably dont understand it all ) what will happen? Will I be slugged with the entire cost of sale and then get slugged for the cost of an Australia Post return as well caused by their own ineptitude?!

But seriously, because you had tracking and can show the buyer refused the item, there is no fault for you - the buyer should not succeed in any claim - fight it to the beaches.

Re: Where do I Stand?

clarry100 — Wed, 22 Jun 2016 23:17:53 GMT

We don't sell/ship time critical items....

But if we did and a buyer purchased one without choosing the express option as in your case, then I think I would have been inclined to send them a friendly message just to say that as the item is time critical you would strongly recommend considering an upgrade to express post for $xx because Australia Post do not always deliver in the timeframe they say they do. Then if they chose to either ignore or decline your offer then they have zip to complain about, having been forewarned.

Re: Where do I Stand?

x3n0m — Wed, 22 Jun 2016 23:41:36 GMT

Brisbane to Melbourne. Australia Post then took over two weeks to deliver the parcel

and people still want to side with australia post and apparently fully approve of their slackness .. incredible!!! ..

Aus Post were slack

.. it is pretty much the new normal .. you are being encouraged to use express or priority post on everything now, all ausposts tactics smack of what is termed incrementalism, they just keep turning up the heat and hope people accept this overpriced monopoly practices disgrace as just a pack or regular joes and jills providing a solid product in return for every increasing amounts of cash from us and diminishing responsibility and services from them .. this is very important for the auspost ceos and executive staff performance bonuses .. its called "disruptive innovation" and is routinely done by "so called" businesses with an effective working monopoly ..

>> how can Australian mail order businesses function and compete effectively in such a sinister enviroment? .. with obstacles like Australia post and the UN postal agreement leeching off of our industries it is no wonder Australia is headed for a very serious economic downturn .. aty the very least auspost should reimburse you for loss but they won't as obviously don't give a stuff as have legal protection from running their business like a milking machine designed to milk the Australian public for every grubby penny they can lay their hands on .. this is just so typical of the "new economy" Turnbull boasts about .. just a pack of greedy fat snouts in the trough ripping australia new one .. nothing to see here folks ,, move along move along .. ..

Re: Where do I Stand?

heihachi_73 — Thu, 23 Jun 2016 09:23:33 GMT

That's because priority mail and Express Post cost more than regular mail and Parcel Post respectively. If they manage to force people to use the more expensive options by making the basic service almost nonexistent, Australia Post's profit margin looks better on paper and then they can pretty much remove the lesser (cheaper) alternatives and only provide the more expensive ones while downgrading them to "regular" speed services behind the scenes by altering the delivery times to their favour. Let's see if Express Post becomes 3-5 days in the same state by 2020 by claiming that Australia is a sparse country and your next door neighbour is on average 30 kilometres away because no-one lives in 90% of the country since it is mostly uninhabitable desert and won't build outside the major cities anyway because it's sacred Aboriginal country or whatever! They love dividing the total land mass by the population to get the people-per-square-kilometre results and then comparing it with Europe, America, China, India etc.

Re: Where do I Stand?

character_parties_aus — Thu, 23 Jun 2016 09:56:48 GMT

The parcel arrived back intact today and I got charged $11 for the return. I can tell you what I am going to do about it. Nothing. As I am currently asked to be doing nothing. I might call ebay record the call and ask for their position on it as a back up.

And after the ebay expiry period I will send the buyer the $9 I owe them for the product after fees post and all the rest of it is built in.

The most amazing thing is that in my eparcel contract a buyer can refuse delivery for ANY reason and Australia Post can charge me to send it back. Next time, circumstances permitting I am going to refuse the return ( as long as its not an expensive item) and see what happens!!!

I'd like to thank all for their commentary.

Re: Where do I Stand?

x3n0m — Thu, 23 Jun 2016 18:14:24 GMT

Let's see if Express Post becomes 3-5 days in the same state by 2020

I dread to think what fresh horrors auspost will be used to foist upon the Australian public in the coming years ..

Re: Where do I Stand?

x3n0m — Thu, 23 Jun 2016 18:32:08 GMT

The parcel arrived back intact today and I got charged $11 for the return.

And after the ebay expiry period I will send the buyer the $9 I owe them for the product after fees post and all the rest of it is built in.

And face facts; expect to cop a defect from ebay on this too .. I doubt you will escape that small insanity either .. I didn't know auspost now charges to return undelivered mail so can imagine how easy it will be for a competitor to mess with you now .. just buy up from a competitor and then refuse delivery .. (***GROANS **) .. with these ruthless policies chipping away at your ability to trade and profit it is like multiple institutions are deliberately trying to destroy the professional mail order industry in Australia .. the fact the auspost CEO has been known to announce major policy changes coming at auspost that auspost staff are not even aware of primarily to the American Chamber of Commerce is not lost on me .. it seems like he is stealthily actually working for them, not us ..

Re: Where do I Stand?

character_parties_aus — Thu, 23 Jun 2016 19:01:37 GMT

I wont be kopping anything as there is no open return and I wont be wearing the postage cost.

All of this comes down to the fact that automation sometimes fails and we live in a society where nobody trusts each other.

My defect rate is almost zero anyway so If I kop one thats cool. No point in stressing over that I am actually more irked about Australia Post charging me, when last week they send 2 of my parcels to Vic to WA meaning that 2 buyers had stuff not there in time for their events and I have to deal with the fall out and drama associated with it.

Australia Post are 100% definately my most hated company in Australia. There should be legislation to ban monopolies due to the incompetence and negligence that it causes.

Re: Where do I Stand?

davewil1964 — Fri, 24 Jun 2016 08:56:18 GMT

They only have a monopoly on letters. Anybody is free to use one of the MANY alternatives for parcels.

Re: Where do I Stand?

lyndal1838 — Fri, 24 Jun 2016 09:18:11 GMT

You can even send letters with a courier if you want to pay their asking price.

Re: Where do I Stand?

x3n0m — Fri, 24 Jun 2016 09:35:36 GMT

They only have a monopoly on letters.

Yeah and we have seen the price of posting a standard letter double in the last 12 months .. with the guarantee from auspost that if you don't buy the priority stamp then they will deliberately slow that letter down if or when they feel it necessary .. I would suggest that we will see a lot of slow letters when the 4.5 Million dollar a year CEOs performance bonus is in jeapardy .. .. we saw the 250gram poistal article wiped from their list of services yet twhen coming from china it is treated by the posty just like they are delivering aletter .. you can pile all the lipstick in the world onto the auspost racketeering pig but it doesn't change the fact that their policies are systematically destoying a very important Australian public institution/utility .. and the minute my supply of stamped envelopes is used up I will never buy another stamp from them ever again .. but I guess that is what they wanted; just to use our letter mail service to deliver china post stuff so as to prop up ebay profits and screw with our retail sector ..

Re: Where do I Stand?

davidc4430 — Fri, 24 Jun 2016 09:42:11 GMT

not that it helps but i good read on a cold night,

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Standing-on-One-Leg-A-Little-Life-Lesson-about-Trying-New-Things-by-Jenny-Tyler-/331659756847?hash=item4d3876452f:g:51IAAOSwVL1V~fNa

Re: Where do I Stand?

jimmyjoejoe_jnr — Fri, 24 Jun 2016 10:05:59 GMT

I also have a customer inquiry lodged with AusPost I sent a registered parcel from Newcastle to Sydney (2.5hrs away)it has now been 10 days and tracking shows it went to Chullora to Vic then Qld now has been back at Chullora since Wednesday.The customer service person I spoke to told me they would investigate and get back to me in 10 days.I said what if its not found and she said "well its lost isn't it" no longer our problem.Not a very helpful attitude, I asked her name and she said I don't have to tell you and hung up.

If it can't be found I assume I have to refund,the buyer has been good about it but don't know for how much longer,I know I wouldn't be happy.

Re: Where do I Stand?

thecatspjs — Fri, 24 Jun 2016 11:01:58 GMT

@jimmyjoejoe_jnr wrote:
I also have a customer inquiry lodged with AusPost I sent a registered parcel from Newcastle to Sydney (2.5hrs away)it has now been 10 days and tracking shows it went to Chullora to Vic then Qld now has been back at Chullora since Wednesday.The customer service person I spoke to told me they would investigate and get back to me in 10 days.I said what if its not found and she said "well its lost isn't it" no longer our problem.Not a very helpful attitude, I asked her name and she said I don't have to tell you and hung up.
If it can't be found I assume I have to refund,the buyer has been good about it but don't know for how much longer,I know I wouldn't be happy.

I would post this experience to APs facebook page. Take a screenshot of the tracking also for your records, and post the screenshot to their page. You may get a different response.

If you don't - I would lodge a formal complaint - you can do this online. You may like to include in your complaint a request for a supervisor to phone you to provide a more appropriate response.

Without fail, it is my experience, that AP cave under pressure and respond much more appropriately WHEN you have adequate evidence to back up their incompetence - you have the tracking record in this case AND when you are persistance in continuing to pursue an appropriate resolution..