topic Re: Proof of shipping problem. in Selling

Proof of shipping problem.

trrautoparts — Tue, 23 Aug 2016 00:01:59 GMT

Hi guys,

Have there been some changes to eBay's proof of shipping conditions that I have missed? Long story, so stay with me here...

I always thought that once you uploaded tracking and proved that the parcel had been sent, it was enough to satisfy eBay in the case of a buyer dispute of an item not being received.

In the past, I have just had to do this, and I have also uploaded the shipping documentation, and it has been found in my favour.

I recently shipped an item by EMS overseas to the Czech Republic, and it has not been delivered. We have an account with Australia Post and they tell me that they can't get any more information from that country about the delivery, which should have arrived early August.

Now eBay have found in the buyer's favour! Even though I have provided everything they asked for. After calling them this morning, I was told that it is the Seller's responsibility to ensure that the item gets delivered! When I asked how am I supposed to do this when it is completely out of my hands, I was told to call the post office in the Czech Republic and ask them to try and find the item! Really? Is this what selling on eBay has come to?

How can we as sellers be responsible for a third party, in this case Australia Post, who have not fulfilled their part of the shipping? Why isn't is good enough any more to prove that the item has been shipped? Why send items with tracking if it doesn't mean anything any more?

Just wondering if anyone else has had problems like this??

Thanks

Re: Proof of shipping problem.

jensmanchester-australia — Tue, 23 Aug 2016 00:11:47 GMT

With the Ebay Money Back Guarantee Policy proof of delivery is now required if they lodge the dispute through Ebay

Previously buyers would lodge a dispute with Paypal who only require proof of shipping.

Re: Proof of shipping problem.

everard6920 — Tue, 23 Aug 2016 00:17:19 GMT

@trrautoparts wrote:
Hi guys,

Have there been some changes to eBay's proof of shipping conditions that I have missed? Long story, so stay with me here...

I always thought that once you uploaded tracking and proved that the parcel had been sent, it was enough to satisfy eBay in the case of a buyer dispute of an item not being received.

In the past, I have just had to do this, and I have also uploaded the shipping documentation, and it has been found in my favour.

I recently shipped an item by EMS overseas to the Czech Republic, and it has not been delivered. We have an account with Australia Post and they tell me that they can't get any more information from that country about the delivery, which should have arrived early August.

Now eBay have found in the buyer's favour! Even though I have provided everything they asked for. After calling them this morning, I was told that it is the Seller's responsibility to ensure that the item gets delivered! When I asked how am I supposed to do this when it is completely out of my hands, I was told to call the post office in the Czech Republic and ask them to try and find the item! Really? Is this what selling on eBay has come to?

How can we as sellers be responsible for a third party, in this case Australia Post, who have not fulfilled their part of the shipping? Why isn't is good enough any more to prove that the item has been shipped? Why send items with tracking if it doesn't mean anything any more?

Just wondering if anyone else has had problems like this??

Thanks

Yes. It may not be your fault but it IS your responsibility to ensure that the buyer gets what they paid you for. You can choose to deliver your items using a magical unicorn, a private jet, or via AP. It doesn't matter - it's your responsibility.

Surely you don't expect the buyer to lose both their money and the item? It may not be your fault but it isn't theirs, either.

Selling overseas is risky because there is more chance for something to go missing, given the extra distance and handling required. Many sellers add a small amount to their postage fee to cover the cost of losses such as this (think of it as an "insurance" fee).

I'm sorry that this happened to you, but yes, this is how it works with eBay. You need to be able to prove delivery to be covered. With Paypal, I think you only need to prove lodgement.

Re: Proof of shipping problem.

trrautoparts — Tue, 23 Aug 2016 00:17:47 GMT

Thanks for the response.... but how are we supposed to provide proof of delivery when it is completely out of our hands?

This just seems like another case of keeping the buyers happy and the seller just has to suck it up! (again)

Re: Proof of shipping problem.

trrautoparts — Tue, 23 Aug 2016 00:24:27 GMT

I totally understand that it is not the buyer's fault either.

But as the seller we have now lost the payment and the item so it's a lose, lose for us.

And with this being the case now, it wouldn't matter whether it was international or within Australia, the seller is still responsible for guaranteeing delivery.

Re: Proof of shipping problem.

clarry100 — Tue, 23 Aug 2016 00:42:46 GMT

@trrautoparts wrote:

And with this being the case now, it wouldn't matter whether it was international or within Australia, the seller is still responsible for guaranteeing delivery.

This is exactly true for ebay MBG INR claims.

However, if the buyer raises a INR case thru PayPal then all PayPal require is proof of lodgement. ie postage.

So if you have a lodgement scan event on your tracking number but no delivery scan then you will be covered.

PayPal may still choose to recompense the buyer but it will be their nickel not yours.

Re: Proof of shipping problem.

go-tazz — Tue, 23 Aug 2016 00:52:37 GMT

@trrautoparts wrote:

Thanks for the response.... but how are we supposed to provide proof of delivery when it is completely out of our hands?

This just seems like another case of keeping the buyers happy and the seller just has to suck it up! (again)

It's probably another eventual money grab by eBay and Paypal,eg: you have to send by a more expense

postage option so that they get higher fees on the postage.

They don't take into account that it would then become unviable for you and others to post overseas and

so they end up with no fees.

Remember this: eBay continues to encourage sellers to select a tracked parcel service, however if you're

using a letters service, please be aware of the following changes,(this was the heading when they anounced

the priority letter service that AP was bringing in and they were hoping sellers would use the stickers to avoid

late deliveries according to their "estimates").

Sellers off course just extended their handling time by a few days to get around it.

eBay may become a better place for buyers,(whether they are genuine or scammers),but it's becoming a

nightmare for some sellers since they introduced this years changes,(defects,MBG,buyers that

are allowed to get/scam free items,etc),

Re: Proof of shipping problem.

trrautoparts — Tue, 23 Aug 2016 01:06:49 GMT

I think that is what is making me so angry about this decision.

We sent this item, and all our items, with tracking and signature on delivery. eBay should distinguish these items from those who send without tracking. As far as I am concerned, I have done everything in my power to send this item.

As I said previously, we now lose on everything... the cost of the item, the postage, the ebay fees and the paypal fees. It's unfair to sellers who try and do the right thing, and abide by all their rules!

Re: Proof of shipping problem.

au2015_river — Tue, 23 Aug 2016 01:31:24 GMT

For international transactions tracking number is sometines not enough. FOr overseas orders, it's best to include signature i think.

Re: Proof of shipping problem.

*tippy*toes* — Tue, 23 Aug 2016 02:23:23 GMT

If you read the OP's last message you'd see where they said it was sent with tracking and signature.

Re: Proof of shipping problem.

lyndal1838 — Tue, 23 Aug 2016 02:32:02 GMT

See the post above your....the OP sent the item with tracking and signature on delivery.

How much more can any seller do to ensure delivery.

Re: Proof of shipping problem.

clarry100 — Tue, 23 Aug 2016 02:35:26 GMT

@trrautoparts wrote:

I think that is what is making me so angry about this decision.

We sent this item, and all our items, with tracking and signature on delivery. eBay should distinguish these items from those who send without tracking. As far as I am concerned, I have done everything in my power to send this item.

As I said previously, we now lose on everything... the cost of the item, the postage, the ebay fees and the paypal fees. It's unfair to sellers who try and do the right thing, and abide by all their rules!

So in this particular case where the tracking indicates the item has indeed been totally lost (ie your buyer is likely not a scammer) as there is no delivery scan event, who do you think should cover the buyer against not getting what they have paid for?

I understand that you have done everything in your power to make sure it is sent with tracking so it's not your fault but equally it's not the buyer's fault either. They surely deserve to receive what they have paid for or get their money back.

What we do is to factor a certain loss rate (about 1 in 1,000 for us) into our prices so that when it happens we can either refund or send out a replacement item. So self insurance really. Then try not to lose any sleep over it. Its just part of doing business online these days.

Unfortunately you are not going to get the carriers (eg Aust Post) to compensate you for total loss unless you purchase their extra insurance cover. Without this all they might do is refund you the postage cost perhaps. IMHO you are better off going the self-insurance route as described above. It does not increase the item price as much and therefore should not be a factor in limiting sales.

Re: Proof of shipping problem.

trrautoparts — Tue, 23 Aug 2016 03:06:27 GMT

As I said I know it's not the buyer's fault either.

In these cases, where the seller has done the right thing, I believe that this is where the eBay buyer's guarantee should be modified so that the buyer is refunded but the seller is not penalised either. We had another case where this happened.

And yes you are correct, AP will not cover anything at all without insurance. Even with insurance they only cover the cost price of the article and not the postage... and then you have to jump through hoops.

Re: Proof of shipping problem.

*tippy*toes* — Tue, 23 Aug 2016 03:36:27 GMT

I think when it comes to international sales, it makes it hard because often there are no scan events once it leaves our shores, even if it is delivered, so you never know if it was delivered or not. I stopped selling overseas ages ago. Too many headaches. You never knew whether the buyer was scamming or if it genuinely didn't arrive because there was no tracking events on either AP or their local postal company site once it left Aus.

Re: Proof of shipping problem.

trrautoparts — Tue, 23 Aug 2016 03:44:18 GMT

Yes, I agree, but that's why we send the way we do with Australia Post. It is supposed to be tracked to when it is delivered, no matter what country it is. And normally this works fine for us. But with this particular parcel, it has not been scanned into the other country, and AP say there is nothing they can do.

We have sent recently to Norway which was received in 5 days, NZ in 2 days, where an express post delivery to WA took 8 days!!

Australia Post is just hopeless!

Re: Proof of shipping problem.

au2015_river — Tue, 23 Aug 2016 03:46:31 GMT

oh sorry missed that..

Re: Proof of shipping problem.

247newdeals — Tue, 23 Aug 2016 06:28:50 GMT

@trrautoparts wrote:
Hi guys,

Have there been some changes to eBay's proof of shipping conditions that I have missed? Long story, so stay with me here...

I always thought that once you uploaded tracking and proved that the parcel had been sent, it was enough to satisfy eBay in the case of a buyer dispute of an item not being received.

In the past, I have just had to do this, and I have also uploaded the shipping documentation, and it has been found in my favour.

I recently shipped an item by EMS overseas to the Czech Republic, and it has not been delivered. We have an account with Australia Post and they tell me that they can't get any more information from that country about the delivery, which should have arrived early August.

Now eBay have found in the buyer's favour! Even though I have provided everything they asked for. After calling them this morning, I was told that it is the Seller's responsibility to ensure that the item gets delivered! When I asked how am I supposed to do this when it is completely out of my hands, I was told to call the post office in the Czech Republic and ask them to try and find the item! Really? Is this what selling on eBay has come to?

How can we as sellers be responsible for a third party, in this case Australia Post, who have not fulfilled their part of the shipping? Why isn't is good enough any more to prove that the item has been shipped? Why send items with tracking if it doesn't mean anything any more?

Just wondering if anyone else has had problems like this??

Thanks

have you tried something like https://www.trackingmore.com/czech-post-tracking.html to see if there is any tracking available? AusPosts international tracking is basically non existence and even though they are happy to charge you for it they do not provide it and unless you push them they consider putting the tracking code into their system all they need to do, Just because AusPost says it can not be track do not take their word for it check yourself

Re: Proof of shipping problem.

trrautoparts — Tue, 23 Aug 2016 07:46:26 GMT

Thanks for that link, but sadly it only shows me what I can see when I look it up here. I was hoping that might have worked!

Re: Proof of shipping problem.

phorum_junkie* — Tue, 23 Aug 2016 11:42:26 GMT

The bottom line is if the parcel has not been delivered then in line with ebay's policy you are responsible for a refund and it is up to you to try and get AP to cover the cost (good luck there). If the item had been delivered no doubt there would be some record of it having been signed for.

If you are going to send to countries where tracking will not be available and/or delivery cannot be confirmed thhen you will have t self insure by adding a small amount to every item you sell to cover those transactionns that go pear shaped. You are retty well in the same position as people who send thing as unregistered large letters because it is so much cheaper.

Re: Proof of shipping problem.

5kazam — Wed, 24 Aug 2016 03:43:23 GMT

Why don't you post on Australia Post's facebook page with relevant information.

They will at least attempt to locate your parcel, whereas the 'customer service' people at AP always seem to take the 'too hard basket' attitude.