topic Re: Buyer returns completely different item in Selling

Buyer returns completely different item

snowbunnies2016 — Thu, 08 Sep 2016 04:59:06 GMT

A buyer lodged a request to return based on Item Not As Described stating the size tags said W34/l32. The waistband had the size L34/34. I included all the the length measurements.

today I received back a pair of jeans but not the ones I sent. I sold Boss Orange jeans in new condition and received back Boss Red Jeans Size 34/32 which are well worn and have fade wash streaks down the legs from being washed.

last week I contacted eBay because he hadn't returned the jeans within a week. The operator escalated the dispute and the buyer sent back a completely different pair of jeans. Now either he has me mixed up with another seller or is trying to pull a shifty.

what do I do here?

Re: Buyer returns completely different item

lyndal1838 — Thu, 08 Sep 2016 05:34:36 GMT

All you can do now is ring ebay and tell them what the buyer has done.

You should never have contacted ebay because the buyer had not returned the item.....you should have let it time out. If the buyer had not been able to prove that they returned something they would not have received a refund.

Re: Buyer returns completely different item

clarry100 — Thu, 08 Sep 2016 05:37:57 GMT

Was someone independent with you when you opened the returned package?

If so, would they be prepared to sign a statutory declaration that says what they saw? ie what was opened was not what you sent?

Re: Buyer returns completely different item

snowbunnies2016 — Thu, 08 Sep 2016 07:13:35 GMT

So I rang eBay and this is what I was told after I explained the buyer has sent back an obviously used and faded pair of jeans and they are not what I sent but completely different in size, style and colour.

we are sorry but we cannot verify what you sent in the first place. WTH!! I said,"I sent what what is pictured in my listing" I said well if I have to accept a return in future and this happens again what do I do. EBays response "there is nothing you can do because we physically don't see the item so we cannot verify it". So much for seller protection. Out of pocket now $130!

i did also ask, if I package in front of the post office staff and open any return in front of them is this sufficient evidence. EBays response "No, we will not accept it"

What a great way to scam somebody!

Re: Buyer returns completely different item

Anonymous — Thu, 08 Sep 2016 07:46:40 GMT

Re: Buyer returns completely different item

clarry100 — Thu, 08 Sep 2016 07:49:45 GMT

Then I would calmly send an enquiry message to the buyer under the assumption that they have made a mistake in returnng a different item to what you sent out. Just asking them if they were aware this had happened.

Then if you get no response (which I would suspect you will not if they are scamming) then open a case with The ACORN for online fraud.

Part of your evidence for this would be good to have a signed state dec from and indepenedemt witness.

One you have a report number forward this onto ebay and to the buyer.

https://www.acorn.gov.au/

Re: Buyer returns completely different item

imastawka — Thu, 08 Sep 2016 07:55:08 GMT

This sounds like they know what they're doing and not made a mistake.

I would send them a Paypal invoice for what's owed and give them

30 days, by which time it must be paid.

Also inform them that if not paid by that date, you will report them to ACORN

for cyber theft.

I have found that this works (for me)

Re: Buyer returns completely different item

lyndal1838 — Thu, 08 Sep 2016 08:06:18 GMT

Good idea Stawks but I don't think I would be so generous.....14 days maximum. Why drag it out.

Re: Buyer returns completely different item

thecatspjs — Thu, 08 Sep 2016 08:35:25 GMT

@snowbunnies2016 wrote:
So I rang eBay and this is what I was told after I explained the buyer has sent back an obviously used and faded pair of jeans and they are not what I sent but completely different in size, style and colour.

we are sorry but we cannot verify what you sent in the first place. WTH!! I said,"I sent what what is pictured in my listing" I said well if I have to accept a return in future and this happens again what do I do. EBays response "there is nothing you can do because we physically don't see the item so we cannot verify it". So much for seller protection. Out of pocket now $130!

i did also ask, if I package in front of the post office staff and open any return in front of them is this sufficient evidence. EBays response "No, we will not accept it"

What a great way to scam somebody!

Then ring eBay back and request to speak to a supervisor. Ask for them to call you back if a supervisor is not available.

IMO do not just give up.

I would ring as many times as it required to get a satisfactory outcome.

Re: Buyer returns completely different item

thecatspjs — Thu, 08 Sep 2016 08:58:16 GMT

@clarry100 wrote:
Was someone independent with you when you opened the returned package?
If so, would they be prepared to sign a statutory declaration that says what they saw? ie what was opened was not what you sent?

If needs be, the seller can complete a statutory declaration and forward to eBay.

This whole "witness" stuff that is propagated on these boards, just reinforces a percpeption that eBay has some type of legal exemption from being required to resolve issues with its CONSUMERS = sellers.

Re: Buyer returns completely different item

character_parties_aus — Thu, 08 Sep 2016 09:25:51 GMT

Whilst I am not disputing the seller has probably been scammed of course there is a much wider issue here of how do you stop sellers sending shonky goods as well as buyers returning shonky goods? There is in the grand sceheme of things going to be a lot more sellers selling shonky goods than buyers pulling scams like this if eBay relaxes its policy. It's an impossible situation for everybody and I would never in a month of Sundays sell high value items on eBay.

Re: Buyer returns completely different item

digital*ghost — Thu, 08 Sep 2016 09:44:13 GMT

@character_parties_aus wrote:
Whilst I am not disputing the seller has probably been scammed of course there is a much wider issue here of how do you stop sellers sending shonky goods as well as buyers returning shonky goods?

You can't stop anyone (buyer or seller) from doing those things, but it should be possible to stop either of them from getting away with it.

Stories like this make me really angry, TBH, because with eBay continually admitting that they have zero information on which to base a judgement call, and even going so far as to refuse credible evidence in order to make said judgement call, they feel entitled to make one anyway (though we all know it's not a judgement call, as such, just a "decision" based on the premise that a ripped-off seller is more likely to keep selling while a ripped-off buyer is more likely to stop buying).

I had a buyer do something similar earlier in the year, I was luckier, because the dispute was via PayPal and although it was ultimately found in their favour, I was able to show enough evidence for the refund not to come from me, so I didn't lose anything (I knew as soon as I received the buyer's package back that it didn't contain what I sent them, so I didn't open it until advised by PayPal that unless I could tell them exactly what was inside, they'd just refund the buyer, so the PayPal rep listened to me open the package, all the while I photographed the whole thing, then sent them all the photos. If something like this ever happens to me again, I will be opening the package in front of a police witness, assuming they're willing).

Re: Buyer returns completely different item

phorum_junkie* — Thu, 08 Sep 2016 09:44:57 GMT

My first message to thhe buyer would be asking them if they made a mistake and returned the wrong jeans inn which case they must pay for the jeans they have kept and if they want the wrong ones returned the postage for to cover that.

If you hear nothing back within 48 hours or they refuse to comply send them another message saying that if they do not pay for the jeans they have kept within 48 hours you will report them to the police using the on line auction fraud reporting site for obtaining goods by deception and fraud.

I would then call ebay back and tell them that you have reported the buyer to the police for fraud and have also contacted the press as ebay have failed to protect you from a very obvious scam.

Re: Buyer returns completely different item

fixnwear — Thu, 08 Sep 2016 10:06:52 GMT

character_parties

Firstly, I think the situation could be other way around:

Most sellers have stores, are here to stay - and there is only so many times they can cheat someone! They would have to disappear and obviously couldn't continue indefinitelly with the practice of posting **bleep** stuff.

But the amounts of money would have to much higher, to make it their worth while.

On the other side are the buyers, who have nothing to loose and on top of that enjoy much more support from Ebay - so can maintain that sort of behaviour for a much longer time.

Ebay's policy shouldn't relax as such, still important to be as vigilant as possible - but each case would need to be treated on it's own merits. Since they have taken it upon themselves to be adjudicators they should do it properly - as it is now it's a mockery of a just decisions.

Can you imagine if the courts bunched everything together with mandatory penalties for one and all - without looking at all the evedince, sometimes so glaringly obvious that you'd trip over it!

Re: Buyer returns completely different item

247newdeals — Thu, 08 Sep 2016 10:22:34 GMT

@phorum_junkie* wrote:
My first message to thhe buyer would be asking them if they made a mistake and returned the wrong jeans inn which case they must pay for the jeans they have kept and if they want the wrong ones returned the postage for to cover that.

If you hear nothing back within 48 hours or they refuse to comply send them another message saying that if they do not pay for the jeans they have kept within 48 hours you will report them to the police using the on line auction fraud reporting site for obtaining goods by deception and fraud.

I would then call ebay back and tell them that you have reported the buyer to the police for fraud and have also contacted the press as ebay have failed to protect you from a very obvious scam.

I 100% agree first thing I would do is contact the buyer and make them aware they send back the wrong jeans it is possible it is a legit they could of purchase jeans from you and another seller and mixed them up. I find buyers to be honest (but make mistakes as do we as sellers) If it turns out they are scammers the threat of contacting the police works wonders but make sure it was not an honest mistake first

Re: Buyer returns completely different item

thecatspjs — Thu, 08 Sep 2016 12:03:55 GMT

@character_parties_aus wrote:
Whilst I am not disputing the seller has probably been scammed of course there is a much wider issue here of how do you stop sellers sending shonky goods as well as buyers returning shonky goods? There is in the grand sceheme of things going to be a lot more sellers selling shonky goods than buyers pulling scams like this if eBay relaxes its policy. It's an impossible situation for everybody and I would never in a month of Sundays sell high value items on eBay.

easy peasy really ... seller history ... buyer history

I certainly know I have my history for delivering the goods I sell as described no probs on my side - with minimal probs over many many years

eBay can see the history of both ... if no probs either side .... they must honour their own money back guarantee with their own dosh

If its true that they cannot prove anything... they need to cough up to cover loss for their folly

Re: Buyer returns completely different item

snowbunnies2016 — Thu, 08 Sep 2016 14:15:58 GMT

Thank you everyone for the helpful advice.

i contacted the buyer politely advising that the jeans I received back are not what I sent. This we're his replies within minutes of each other.

Message 1

"You must be kidding me - really. I spend $20 in postage you send you a different size!?! I run a company of 30 people .... I have better things to do with my time. I am not in the jean size swapping business 😉 "

Message 2

You have got to be crazy...... I'm speechless. Happy to discuss by phone. Either massive communication fail or your pulling my leg.

Message 3

I have another pair I can send you that I was going good to give to the good Sams if you want them

Message 4

I will send you the other pair of boss jeans I have. If I sent you the wrong pair it was in no way intentional.

I think somewhere between the messages 2 & 3 he must have gone and checked his jeans collection or thas aken a good hard look at the photos I sent showing what I sold and sent to him and what he has returned.

Will try and upload the photos of my item vs the return jeans (iPad won't up load will try the PC)

Re: Buyer returns completely different item

springyzone — Thu, 08 Sep 2016 16:21:56 GMT

This person paid $130 for a pair of jeans & then forgot which jeans they happened to be and was going to give them to the Good Samaritans anyway?

That's someone who has way too many clothes!!

And just you don't hate it when people write your for you're.

Hope you get your original jeans back. Sounds as if you may be in luck!!

Re: Buyer returns completely different item

snowbunnies2016 — Thu, 08 Sep 2016 23:53:31 GMT

Update:

After emails back and forth, with more pics, I managed to find my original photos which included one of the size tag, similar to what the buyer uploaded in the dispute.

Here is the latest reply:

"hhhh it all makes a lot more sense now. Yes I sent the wrong ones. I'll send the grey tag ones to you and just keep the red ones you have. My mistake - apologies."

So hopefully I will get my jeans back! Glad the buyer has admitted the error was his.

Re: Buyer returns completely different item

typhoon4u — Thu, 08 Sep 2016 23:53:55 GMT

LOL...

From impertinent arrogance, and to then slowly devolve to a virtual admission of guilt.

Last line, message 4, "If I sent you the wrong pair it was in no way intentional."

Glad you look like having a win. A lesson learned.

I was going to say when you contacted them to give them the option of "coming clean" rather than go straight for the jugular with ACORN, fraud etc......looks like you did that.....

Confronting and accusing someone could just back them into a corner with no way out. Well played!