topic Re: Buyer hasn't received item in Selling

Buyer hasn't received item

kimbooley89 — Mon, 14 Nov 2016 14:55:24 GMT

The buyer contacted me yesterday to say that she hasn't yet received her item - nearly a month after it was posted.

I posted the item on October 19th and, according to the tracking number, the package was delivered on October 21st. I suggested she check her local post office in case she hadn't been home when it was delivered and that the postie had perhaps forgotten to leave a card, so she did that and said the package wasn't there.

My question now is, if I go to my local post office and give them the tracking number will they be able to tell me the exact address the package was delivered to?

Re: Buyer hasn't received item

lyndal1838 — Mon, 14 Nov 2016 15:19:11 GMT

They might be able to track it to the actual address it was delivered to.....you can but ask.

Re: Buyer hasn't received item

shepherdsrule — Mon, 14 Nov 2016 16:27:18 GMT

Given the delivery date Oct 21st, the PO may have returned it to (you) the sender, they only hold parcels for 7 - 12 days after being carded at my local PO as they just do not have the room.

Re: Buyer hasn't received item

clarry100 — Mon, 14 Nov 2016 19:50:21 GMT

This sounds like a delivery error by Australia Post.
Since the tracking is showing delivered you should win any INR case the buyer might open, as long as the tracking number can be linked to the buyer's address.
However, that does not help the buyer to get what they paid for. I think if you ask AP about it they will say it's now up to the recipient to chase it up themselves. I would try to help the buyer as much as I could but encourage them to do the chasing.
Did you pay for any extra cover insurance? If so then that should kick in and pay you for your loss thus enabling you to refund your buyer, but this could take some time to resolve. If you do have insurance then I would refund the buyer so they don't have to wait.
Is there anything you feel might suggest the buyer is telling porkies?

Re: Buyer hasn't received item

curraone — Mon, 14 Nov 2016 20:14:35 GMT

My question now is, if I go to my local post office and give them the tracking number will they be able to tell me the exact address the package was delivered to?

I would not go to the local PO : I would ring up the Aust Post helpline - I have found them very helpful.

(I would put the number here, but I got smacked yesterday for doing that)

Re: Buyer hasn't received item

allfixelectrical — Mon, 14 Nov 2016 23:23:57 GMT

@kimbooley89 wrote:

My question now is, if I go to my local post office and give them the tracking number will they be able to tell me the exact address the package was delivered to?

Aust post won't deal with the sender regarding items that have already been marked as delivered due to privacy reasons.

If you are sure it was addressed correctly as per the details supplied by ebay, then it is the responsibility of the buyer to chase it up with Aust Post.

If the buyer then authorises with Aust Post that you too can make enquiries about the case that is opened by them, then and only then can you contact Aust Post about it.

Many scanners have GPS facilities now so if an item has been misdelivered the post office may be able to determine that from the delivery scan details stored in their system.

Basically the buyer will need to call 131318 and lodge an enquiry.

Re: Buyer hasn't received item

imastawka — Mon, 14 Nov 2016 23:50:32 GMT

Just a thought, but have you actually checked with the buyer about

their address?

They may not have updated their details.

Re: Buyer hasn't received item

kimbooley89 — Tue, 15 Nov 2016 04:43:13 GMT

@clarry100 wrote:
This sounds like a delivery error by Australia Post.
Since the tracking is showing delivered you should win any INR case the buyer might open, as long as the tracking number can be linked to the buyer's address.
However, that does not help the buyer to get what they paid for. I think if you ask AP about it they will say it's now up to the recipient to chase it up themselves. I would try to help the buyer as much as I could but encourage them to do the chasing.
Did you pay for any extra cover insurance? If so then that should kick in and pay you for your loss thus enabling you to refund your buyer, but this could take some time to resolve. If you do have insurance then I would refund the buyer so they don't have to wait.
Is there anything you feel might suggest the buyer is telling porkies?

I didn't pay for any extra coverge and I'm sort of regretting that decision right now.

I originally thought the buyer might be lying (she through the word pensioner around in all three of her emails, including the one where she asked for free postage because she's a pensioner and couldn't pay the $3 it would cost for postage on a $10 t-shirt). She also told me that she tried chasing it up with AP herself but they said they couldn't tell her anything because she wan't the sender.

Either way I think I'll just go ahead and refund her and hope that she doesn't leave neg feedback.

Re: Buyer hasn't received item

kimbooley89 — Tue, 15 Nov 2016 04:51:21 GMT

@allfixelectrical wrote:
@kimbooley89 wrote:

My question now is, if I go to my local post office and give them the tracking number will they be able to tell me the exact address the package was delivered to?
Aust post won't deal with the sender regarding items that have already been marked as delivered due to privacy reasons.
If you are sure it was addressed correctly as per the details supplied by ebay, then it is the responsibility of the buyer to chase it up with Aust Post.
If the buyer then authorises with Aust Post that you too can make enquiries about the case that is opened by them, then and only then can you contact Aust Post about it.
Many scanners have GPS facilities now so if an item has been misdelivered the post office may be able to determine that from the delivery scan details stored in their system.
Basically the buyer will need to call 131318 and lodge an enquiry.

Ah, well she was actually telling me differently. She told me that AP told her that as she wasn't the sender, that they couldn't tell her anything. I thought that was rather strange but since I've never dealt with anything like this myself, I didn't question it too much.

Yep, I'm certain it was addressed correctly - I always double and sometimes triple check address details to make sure it's the right one - including contacting the buyer and making sure that it's correct; she said it was the right one.

So when a package is marked as 'delivered', do they scan it at the address where it's delivered or do they scan it as 'delivered' when it arrives at the local post office neartest the suburb it's to be delievered to?

Also, she was quite adamant about her displeasure with Aust Post and how they have been needing to "pull their socks up for years" so I'm kind of trying to avoid having to tell her that she needs tov deal with it. But with the phoner number that you provided me with, do I just tell her that she can lodge a complaint for a missing item that way?

Re: Buyer hasn't received item

kimbooley89 — Tue, 15 Nov 2016 04:59:02 GMT

@imastawka wrote:
Just a thought, but have you actually checked with the buyer about
their address?

They may not have updated their details.

Yep - as I'm just a casual seller and don't sell a whole lot of items, I always have the time to contact a seller before posting their item to confirm that their details are correct, as I know a lot of people are guilty of forgetting to update details.

She confirmed that her postal address was correct and I double checked the address when I wrote it on package and it was the same as she'd given me.

Her address suggests she lives in an apartment building so I was thinking either the possibility of it being stolen (even though she said she was home all day on the delivery date - and how she remembers a date three weeks ago I have no idea) or that she's just flat out lying.

Re: Buyer hasn't received item

clarry100 — Tue, 15 Nov 2016 05:10:17 GMT

As pointed out above SHE will be the one Australia Post will deal with not you the sender as the tracking shows delivered.

If you are certain you have addressed it correctly and have used the buyer's paypal shipping address, a-n-d that your tracking number can be linked (important) to the buyer's paypal shipping address (via ebay labels or Click and Send or similar) then encourage her to raise a formal Item Not Received (INR) case via ebay. Exactly what label service did you use?

Given the above, you will win the case and that will be then end of the matter. If she does leave NEG feedback afer that then ebay are very likely to remove it if you call them about it.

If you have tried to do the right thing and help her and she is being difficult and playing the "poor me" card then I would lose all sympathy I'm afraid. Sometimes people just have to help themselves.

Re: Buyer hasn't received item

curraone — Tue, 15 Nov 2016 05:20:41 GMT

I still think you should ring the Australia Post (or click and send if you used online c&s) helpline - I have had several dealings with them and they have been very helpful - maybe they will push you off because item shows delivered, but maybe they won't.

Re: Buyer hasn't received item

lyndal1838 — Tue, 15 Nov 2016 05:23:53 GMT

@kimbooley89 wrote:
Her address suggests she lives in an apartment building so I was thinking either the possibility of it being stolen (even though she said she was home all day on the delivery date - and how she remembers a date three weeks ago I have no idea) or that she's just flat out lying.

You need to be a bit careful when you make comments about people remembering where they were 3 weeks ago on a certain day.

Due to mobility problems I could tell you to the minute exactly where I was on a certain day 2 weeks ago or 2 years ago. I am home 24 hours a day during the week and have details in my diary of any appointments on the weekends...and they are not very frequent.

You have no idea what your buyer's circumstances are so maybe be a bit more careful what you post on a public forum.

Re: Buyer hasn't received item

kimbooley89 — Tue, 15 Nov 2016 05:41:29 GMT

@lyndal1838 wrote:
@kimbooley89 wrote:
Her address suggests she lives in an apartment building so I was thinking either the possibility of it being stolen (even though she said she was home all day on the delivery date - and how she remembers a date three weeks ago I have no idea) or that she's just flat out lying.
You need to be a bit careful when you make comments about people remembering where they were 3 weeks ago on a certain day.

Due to mobility problems I could tell you to the minute exactly where I was on a certain day 2 weeks ago or 2 years ago. I am home 24 hours a day during the week and have details in my diary of any appointments on the weekends...and they are not very frequent.

You have no idea what your buyer's circumstances are so maybe be a bit more careful what you post on a public forum.

Apologies, I didn't mean any offense and didn't take that into consideration when I posted that out of frustration.

@curraone wrote:

---

I may just have to give that a go at this point. I filed a 'missing or lost item' on the AP website but it said it could take up to a week and I'm now trying to resolve as quickly as possbile so a phone call my be best.

Re: Buyer hasn't received item

kimbooley89 — Tue, 15 Nov 2016 05:46:40 GMT

@clarry100 wrote:
As pointed out above SHE will be the one Australia Post will deal with not you the sender as the tracking shows delivered.

If you are certain you have addressed it correctly and have used the buyer's paypal shipping address, a-n-d that your tracking number can be linked (important) to the buyer's paypal shipping address (via ebay labels or Click and Send or similar) then encourage her to raise a formal Item Not Received (INR) case via ebay. Exactly what label service did you use?

Given the above, you will win the case and that will be then end of the matter. If she does leave NEG feedback afer that then ebay are very likely to remove it if you call them about it.

If you have tried to do the right thing and help her and she is being difficult and playing the "poor me" card then I would lose all sympathy I'm afraid. Sometimes people just have to help themselves.

To answer your question about what label - I don't use the labels, I just write the addresses on a regular parcel myself. But upon looking at her address again after she said she hadn't received the item, I recognized it immediately (sometimes certain postal addresses will just stick in my head) and I knew it was the same one I'd written on the package. But I did Add Tracking number to her package on this website as soon as I received it. Will that be helpful at all, if it can't be linked to the PayPal shipping address as you suggested?

I'll get back to her anyway and tell her that she has to chase it up herself and see what she says.

Re: Buyer hasn't received item

clarry100 — Tue, 15 Nov 2016 05:59:57 GMT

@kimbooley89 wrote:
To answer your question about what label - I don't use the labels, I just write the addresses on a regular parcel myself. But upon looking at her address again after she said she hadn't received the item, I recognized it immediately (sometimes certain postal addresses will just stick in my head) and I knew it was the same one I'd written on the package. But I did Add Tracking number to her package on this website as soon as I received it. Will that be helpful at all, if it can't be linked to the PayPal shipping address as you suggested?

I'll get back to her anyway and tell her that she has to chase it up herself and see what she says.

Unfortunately so far as ebay/paypal are concerned this will fail to prove you sent the package to the buyer even tho it has tracking.

If you hand-write your own address labels on regular parcels then the only way you can link the tracking number to the buyer's address is to take a photo of the front of the parcel when you lodge it over the counter at your local PO. Such a photo will be sufficient to get them to side with you as that is proof you correctly addressed and sent it and links the tracking number to the address.

So if she raises a formal INR case against you then I now think you will lose. That means you will be forced to refund by ebay. If she happens to be an experienced scammer then she will know this too.

Re: Buyer hasn't received item

curraone — Tue, 15 Nov 2016 07:15:42 GMT

curraone wrote:
I still think you should ring the Australia Post (or click and send if you used online c&s) helpline - I have had several dealings with them and they have been very helpful - maybe they will push you off because item shows delivered, but maybe they won't.
---

I may just have to give that a go at this point. I filed a 'missing or lost item' on the AP website but it said it could take up to a week and I'm now trying to resolve as quickly as possbile so a phone call my be best.

Yes, nothing will be lost and there is everything to gain - just think - you might get a very helpful Aust Post person who will be able to give you more details of the delivery and armed with this information, you will be in a better position with your buyer - if you can tell her you have spoken to aust post and they confirm delivery, etc, she might drop the whole thing.

Re: Buyer hasn't received item

*tippy*toes* — Tue, 15 Nov 2016 09:47:52 GMT

@clarry100 wrote:
@kimbooley89 wrote:
To answer your question about what label - I don't use the labels, I just write the addresses on a regular parcel myself. But upon looking at her address again after she said she hadn't received the item, I recognized it immediately (sometimes certain postal addresses will just stick in my head) and I knew it was the same one I'd written on the package. But I did Add Tracking number to her package on this website as soon as I received it. Will that be helpful at all, if it can't be linked to the PayPal shipping address as you suggested?

I'll get back to her anyway and tell her that she has to chase it up herself and see what she says.
Unfortunately so far as ebay/paypal are concerned this will fail to prove you sent the package to the buyer even tho it has tracking.
If you hand-write your own address labels on regular parcels then the only way you can link the tracking number to the buyer's address is to take a photo of the front of the parcel when you lodge it over the counter at your local PO. Such a photo will be sufficient to get them to side with you as that is proof you correctly addressed and sent it and links the tracking number to the address.

So if she raises a formal INR case against you then I now think you will lose. That means you will be forced to refund by ebay. If she happens to be an experienced scammer then she will know this too.

None of that is entirely true. I had a buyer open an INR a couple of months ago on an item that showed delivered to her town and postcode (she had a PO box and it was delivered there). I handwrite my labels. I was in constant contact with eBay via email and both myself and eBay told her to close the case as she wouldn't win. They also removed the negative feedback she left within 20 minutes of me sending the email asking them to.

Re: Buyer hasn't received item

clarry100 — Tue, 15 Nov 2016 10:24:36 GMT

Here is the ebay.AU low-down on sellers providing tracking information.

Of course, ebay CSR's may choose to ignore their own policies/guidelines (which they often do as we all know), but the seller is not guaranteed to win an INR case if the address and tracking number cannot be linked. See sub para 3. below.

For this reason I still think the OP is very likely to lose any INR case despite your own personal experience to the contrary.

http://pages.ebay.com/au/help/sell/item-not-received.html

Provide tracking information

If a buyer opens a request about an item that they haven't received, you can resolve the request by providing proof of delivery. We ask you to provide tracking information that shows:

The delivery status of the item as delivered.
The date of delivery (which shows you sent the item within your stated handling time).
The buyer's address, displaying at least the town/city or postal code of the address shown on either the Order Details page or PayPal's Transaction Details page.
For items valued at $750 or more, proof of recipient's signature.

Re: Buyer hasn't received item

*tippy*toes* — Tue, 15 Nov 2016 11:37:59 GMT

@clarry100 wrote:
Here is the ebay.AU low-down on sellers providing tracking information.
Of course, ebay CSR's may choose to ignore their own policies/guidelines (which they often do as we all know), but the seller is not guaranteed to win an INR case if the address and tracking number cannot be linked. See sub para 3. below.

For this reason I still think the OP is very likely to lose any INR case despite your own personal experience to the contrary.

http://pages.ebay.com/au/help/sell/item-not-received.html

Provide tracking information
If a buyer opens a request about an item that they haven't received, you can resolve the request by providing proof of delivery. We ask you to provide tracking information that shows:
The delivery status of the item as delivered.
The date of delivery (which shows you sent the item within your stated handling time).
The buyer's address, displaying at least the town/city or postal code of the address shown on either the Order Details page or PayPal's Transaction Details page.
For items valued at $750 or more, proof of recipient's signature.

As long as the tracking number shows the post code of the buyers location, then the OP should win a dispute. Of course, as you say, it depends on the ~~computer bot~~ CS person handling the case. I uploaded the tracking number and I also copied and pasted the tracking details into the dispute. That turned out to be jumbled as you can't have paragraphs or new lines, but it was all there.

Edit: "At least the town or city". Nothing about showing an exact address. If the buyer is in Timbuktu and the tracking says it is delivered in Timbuktu, then that is "at least the town or city on the order details or PayPal transaction details page".