topic Re: Unauthorised Chargeback on a Pickup Item in Selling

Unauthorised Chargeback on a Pickup Item

nannymoos — Tue, 27 Dec 2016 13:15:52 GMT

We sold a set of 6 Chairs at the beginning of December - buyer paid via Paypal - 1 month later we receive a chargeback for "unauthorsied Use of Card Card" we immediately phone the buyer who denied lodging this - tried to tell us her paypal account must have been hacked - she promised to phone them and her bank to sort this out but hasnt done so - she will not answer calls or texts from us - rang Paypal and lodged the claim and heard back tonight that we lost the claim due to no proof of delivery - the claim was never for item not received - I sent copies of text messages from her arranging pickup - I have lodged a claim with Financial Ombudsman as well - Paypal have charged back $3010 so our account has a negative balance that includes a $15 fee - I have checked her out on Facebook and she has photos of her family sitting on the chairs - should police be the next step as she is obviously just trying to get away with getting the chairs for nothing - I will add that as we are a retail store I have now arranged with Ebay to have Paypal removed as a payment option and will never accept payments through them again - has anyone else had a similar problem and how did you deal with it ?

Re: Unauthorised Chargeback on a Pickup Item

davewil1964 — Tue, 27 Dec 2016 13:24:33 GMT

If you accept credit card payments you will still be exposed to chargebacks for 'unauthorised use'.

The 'buyer' could well be telling the truth. I believe if somebody goes over their credit limit, banks automatically initiate chargebacks and don't require any input from the cardholder, much less that they return the goods. eBay/Paypal aren't the only institutions that protect the ~~scammer~~ buyer.

Re: Unauthorised Chargeback on a Pickup Item

nannymoos — Tue, 27 Dec 2016 13:58:54 GMT

If the buyer was telling the truth - why isnt she answering calls and messages from us - her excuse of her paypal acount being hacked just doesnt add up as funds can only be returned to the account they came from so if a new bank account was added it wouldnt have worked - and if she went over her limit why did it take the bank a month to do anything about it - it was exactly 1 month after her purchase - all seems very suss to me

Re: Unauthorised Chargeback on a Pickup Item

lyndal1838 — Tue, 27 Dec 2016 16:38:29 GMT

Unfortunately I have to agree with Dave......your problem is not with paypal but the entire credit card payment system.

If your buyer had not used paypal but had paid through your Merchant Facility she could still have done a chargeback.

Even if the buyer is correct and she did not initiate the chargeback, now that she is aware of it she should be taking some action to resolve it.

You have the buyer's email address and the photos....send her the photos and tell her that if you do not receive a cash payment for the items you will be reporting her to ACORN and the Police. Unfortunately reporting her may not get your money back.....you just want to scare her into paying to avoid a police record.

Good luck.

Re: Unauthorised Chargeback on a Pickup Item

clarry100 — Tue, 27 Dec 2016 19:49:56 GMT

This is a terrible situation to be in.

Unfortunately another example of why you should try to avoid accepting PayPal payment for pickup items. Cash only preferred.

You have no proof of shipment/delivery to defend such claims. This is what PayPal require to be elligible for seller protection.

The only way I can recommend to do this (for future) would be to take a copy of the drivers licence of the person doing the pickup on the day and to take photographs of the pickup vehicle including the number plates.

If she denies knowing about it but will do nothing to help resolve the matter then I would be lodging a case with The ACORN. This is the Australian Federal Police.

https://www.acorn.gov.au/

Present them with all your evidence. Messages, pics from Facebook etc. Whatever will support your case that she has the item and your money too. Even the info you have from the PayPal case against you. For the amount of over $3000 I would think they would be very interested. Once you have a case number send this info to the buyer.

I don't think deleting PayPal is a real solution as if you accept credit card payments via any institution or gateway you are subject to these. You actually get more support if its done thru PayPal rather than being on your own up against a bank. Even tho in this case it surely might not appear that way to you. Chargebacks are a fact of life these days even in your retail business.

Re: Unauthorised Chargeback on a Pickup Item

magpie5* — Tue, 27 Dec 2016 22:30:57 GMT

wow, that is really scary. thats a lot of cash.
great suggestion clarry100 be interesting to see how this pans out

Re: Unauthorised Chargeback on a Pickup Item

phorum_junkie* — Tue, 27 Dec 2016 23:18:52 GMT

Police should be your next but one call. First off I would send a snail mail recorded delivery letter telling them that unless they repay the money for the furniture plus the $15 it cost you in bank charges within 48 you will be reporting them to the police and providing copies of the pictures you have found on facebook of them using the furniture (make sure you copy the pictures to your computer). If they do not repay the money (give them your bank details) then definitely go to the police. If they are close to you try your local police station, insist on at least a crime number to show it has been reported but if they won't take it further report on line through ACORN.

This has been reported as happening a handful of times on the boards and in most cases a threat of police action or a 'friendly' visit from the local constabulary was enough.

I am not recommending it but one buyer messaged a scammer that he was sending a few of his mates who rode bikes and loved baseball round to discuss it with them. They paid up VERY quickly.

If a buyer wanted to pay with Paypal for a pick up item I would insist on photo id with their address which I would photocopy onto a receipt, one copy for them and one for me both signed. I would also take a pic of their number plate preferably while the stuff was being loaded.

Re: Unauthorised Chargeback on a Pickup Item

kopenhagen5 — Tue, 27 Dec 2016 23:23:54 GMT

Send off another message-

Seeing as there is no reply from you and we have lost over $3,000 I am forced to give your details to ACORN.

Unless there is some positive action from yourself or your bank within 24 hours that is the course of action I need to take.

And include a link to ACORN - https://www.acorn.gov.au/

Re: Unauthorised Chargeback on a Pickup Item

kingfisher.curiosity.shop — Thu, 29 Dec 2016 02:16:13 GMT

Nothing paid for with Paypal should be allowed to be picked up or delivered.

It is cleary stated on Paypal to have tracking / shipping records.

Next thing to do is to go to their local Police station and make a report. Take all your evidence with you. Drop off a copy to the buyer in person- ask the Police to accompany you. They may say no. Doesnt matter. Show the buyer you will take action to get your money back.

Re: Unauthorised Chargeback on a Pickup Item

k1ooo-slr-sales — Thu, 29 Dec 2016 10:10:32 GMT

@kingfisher.curiosity.shop wrote:
Nothing paid for with Paypal should be allowed to be picked up or delivered.
It is cleary stated on Paypal to have tracking / shipping records.

Next thing to do is to go to their local Police station and make a report. Take all your evidence with you. Drop off a copy to the buyer in person- ask the Police to accompany you. They may say no. Doesnt matter. Show the buyer you will take action to get your money back.

PayPal do now cover pickup items (there are some conditions). Shipping is no longer compulsory for buyers to have protection.

There was a thread about it when it was announced by PayPal

Re: Unauthorised Chargeback on a Pickup Item

kopenhagen5 — Thu, 29 Dec 2016 10:56:15 GMT

This the one ? -

https://community.ebay.com.au/t5/Selling/PayPal-to-provide-buyer-protection-for-eligible-PickUp-and-Hand/td-p/1961758/page/2

Re: Unauthorised Chargeback on a Pickup Item

bimberiretrosystems — Fri, 30 Dec 2016 00:27:47 GMT

contact the ABC (7:30 report)-there was just a few nights ago a story of a guy using gumtree to scam people with credit card chargebacks-i'm sure ABC would LOVE to hear of your situation, especially considering the story on ABC was for less than what you got cheated for. Ebay has become a dangerous risky place to sell because of paypal. Hearing stories like this has now made me reconsider ebay completely for the new year.

Re: Unauthorised Chargeback on a Pickup Item

kingfisher.curiosity.shop — Fri, 30 Dec 2016 00:52:44 GMT

I havent seen that and cant recall seeing it anywhere else either.

I just go on whats on the Paypal transaction detail.

- Ship to buyers address on this page.

- Use a shipping service with signature confirmation

- Save all tracking information or other proof of shipment.

Re: Unauthorised Chargeback on a Pickup Item

imastawka — Fri, 30 Dec 2016 01:09:11 GMT

Which has nothing to do with a pick-up item

Re: Unauthorised Chargeback on a Pickup Item

thecatspjs — Fri, 30 Dec 2016 01:35:12 GMT

Just wanted to clarify as a post above does not give details as to what is covered - Paypal still do not offer buyer protection for pick up items claimed as not received.

S10.2 Any item you collect in person or arrange to be collected on your behalf is not eligible to be claimed as not received.

For goods that have been picked up and a claimed as signficantly not as described - the odds are more in a sellers favour as they have been accepted by the buyer on collection. That being said, for example, if something is sold in good mechanical working order and it packs up the next day, the buyer may be able to win a claim, though providing they returned goods to a disgrunteld seller, may on occassion be tricky.

Credit card chargebacks on pick up items are different, as Paypal must abide by the lawful terms of a bank's credit card transaction.

Re: Unauthorised Chargeback on a Pickup Item

kingfisher.curiosity.shop — Fri, 30 Dec 2016 02:48:08 GMT

Sorry, I thought the OP said the buyer paid with Paypal and picked the item up.

The OP is the one with the problem not the buyer.

If the buyer paid with paypal what would have been written on the Paypal reciept?

Re: Unauthorised Chargeback on a Pickup Item

justkidzbiz — Fri, 30 Dec 2016 02:48:31 GMT

Take photos of her Facebook pages. A good chance they will come in handy. Also report her to ACORN. They will follow up. I did it with a buyer who received a refund and kept my item after sending back a totally different item after claiming not as described. ACORN lodged a notice with the West Aust police.

Re: Unauthorised Chargeback on a Pickup Item

redders_60 — Fri, 30 Dec 2016 03:20:24 GMT

I live locally to the OP's local Police Station & had an issue with a scam buyer some 2 years back & the local police were most singularly unhelpful & very derogatory with regards to online selling! My scammer was from another more rural suburb & (I quote) "known to them" but I still lost over $900 for a collectable doll.

They just aren't good @ helping with online fraud! No amount of paperwork will help if the OP is dealing with them!

The OP has a B&M shop (I've been there) I don't know what to suggest; But the local Police aren't the answer!

Re: Unauthorised Chargeback on a Pickup Item

imastawka — Fri, 30 Dec 2016 06:52:35 GMT

Redders, the local police don't deal with on-line fraud. That's why there's ACORN.

It's specifically for on-line fraud. They deal with it.

https://www.acorn.gov.au/

Re: Unauthorised Chargeback on a Pickup Item

arlottstreetstation — Sat, 31 Dec 2016 00:31:34 GMT

The following worked for me about 18 Months ago:

- Send them a private Invoice for what they owe you with 14 days to pay - They will either ignore it or there's a slim chance that they will contact you saying they have elready won the Case with PayPal/Ebay... If so, just point out them that Ebay & PayPal are now out of the game but you are persuing the Debt.

- In 14 Days time send a Final Notice with a message that if the Debt isn't settled in 7 days you will take further action (Don't use the words "Legal Action")

- Contact a Private Debt Collector - preffably one that will actually buy the Debt from you.

- Sell the Debt - You may not get the whole amount owing but at least you have rid youself of the headache ....