topic Re: How to pay for dispute in Selling

How to pay for dispute

moto288 — Tue, 10 Jan 2017 02:43:44 GMT

Hello all,

To keep a long story short. I've sold 2 similar sets of cutleries on ebay to a fraudulent buyer in the US (2 feedbacks, I should have noticed). They filed a non-authentic claim on my items, and the usual story goes, ebay sided with the buyer (despite the items being bought by me personally from the brand store - unfortunately this was years ago and from overseas so I don't have the receipt).

I managed to get ebay to reverse one case so I haven't lost everything. It's been a frustrating and stressful period dealing with ebay on this, and I'm giving up, both happy and sad and I only lost slightly over 1/2 of the money originally.

However, the ebay paying option is convoluted to say the least. Paypal have frozen the funds for the item that I need to refund (so I'm on a negative balance) and ebay is asking me to Pay Now via an ebay page. Obviously my preferred option is to go through Paypal as that means I get the Paypal fees of that transaction back as consolation. However, if I zero out my balance by depositing money into eBay, will eBay know to take money from there?

So the item is $1400, and Paypal withheld $1349 from me (the balance is Paypal fees), so if I can go through Paypal, I pay $51 less.

Could I please ask for some advice how I could go about doing it via Paypal? Saving $51 would help reduce my loss - every little bit counts when you're burned by a scammer.

Thanks so much!

Re: How to pay for dispute

justkidzbiz — Tue, 10 Jan 2017 12:02:48 GMT

If you refund directly via the original payment in Paypal, it will be recognised through eBay. Don't make a "new" transaction in Paypal, find the original payment and refund from there. eBay won't take the money if you refund via PayPal, the system will show the refund if you refund via the original transaction.m(hope that makes sense)

Before refunding, I would be asking how eBay have determined that the item is not genuine and demanding that you want the item returned if having to refund. That is total bs. Can you contact the company of the item and send them photos so that they can confirm the items are genuine? That is a heck of a lot of money to be out of pocket.

Re: How to pay for dispute

justkidzbiz — Tue, 10 Jan 2017 12:11:38 GMT

I'll also add, even if you refund before you get confirmation from Hermes (I'm assuming from your Solds its was that cutlery set) you could always appeal the decision if you can prove authenticity.

Just curious though, how did you win one case and not the other?

Just a suggestion for future high priced branded items, if possible, try and get a letter of authenticity from the company prior to selling, this might help with any scammers in the future, not to mention the stress. I'd be so upset at losing that much money and the item. They are beautiful looking sets. Unfortunately online buying has brought out the worst in some people who target the honest!

Re: How to pay for dispute

performance_parts_clearance_centre — Tue, 10 Jan 2017 22:12:48 GMT

I'd be absolutely demanding the return of the "counterfeit" items before you refund, and checking them over very carefully when they arrive - I wouldn't put it past the buyer to keep the genuine set, and send you a cheap counterfeit set!

Make sure that the goods are sent via a fully-trackable service (although nothing fearsomely expensive like International Express), so they don't magically get lost in transit.

If the goods that arrive are the same ones you sent, you're then really only out of pocket to the tune of two lots of postage, rather than $1400 or so dollars.

Re: How to pay for dispute

moto288 — Tue, 10 Jan 2017 23:09:45 GMT

Thanks for your advice! Yes, lesson learnt and next time I sell a high value item on eBay I'll have to make sure I've got the purchase receipt or some letter proving authenticity. The problem is a lot of my items were bought when we travel overseas years ago and now we are cleaning out things that we don't necessarily need/use, and realise that that we either havne't kept the invoices or they've been taken when we claimed our tax back on the way out of the foreign countries.

I don't seem to have a button to "refund" manually via Paypal anymore. eBay have put a hold on that particular transaction (and a line in Paypal saying buyer's refunded), and my Paypal balance have gone into negative.So technically, eBay's already taken my money from Paypal. They shouldn't claim that I owe them money. Rather, I should be owing Paypal money now, instead of eBay. I may have to call them to see how to resolve that (whether I could just top up my Paypal balance and let eBay and Paypal sort it out between them, as I would've fulfilled my obligation to pay the amount that's been withheld).

I've asked eBay why one case is reversed and they refused to reverse the other one, the reply was that the reversed one wasn't supposed to be reversed! They also refused to provide me a copy of the so-called "evidence/documentation" that the buyer's supplied. As I know it's definitely genuine, I would want to know what documentation they've provided, whether it's some random letter from a local dodgy shop or just a statutory declaration from the buyer. They refused citing privacy reasons! eBay have admitted over the phone that because they can't physically authenticate it, they'll have to rely on whatever the buyer provides!

Re: How to pay for dispute

moto288 — Tue, 10 Jan 2017 23:12:52 GMT

Yes, I've emailed Hermes headquarters and they said I could call that particular store (the main one in Paris) and ask for a replacement receipt. That's a lot of hassle. The problem is we don't even remember the date we bought them because it's so many years ago.

Thanks for the comment. Yes, they're beautiful, was reluctant to part with them and ended up with this trouble! Sigh.

Re: How to pay for dispute

moto288 — Tue, 10 Jan 2017 23:14:56 GMT

Thanks for your advice. Unfortunately, I've gone past that in the process, and escalated the issue. Very unwise to have done that. eBay ruling in favour of the buyer means that they don't even need to send it back now, as eBay is convinced the goods are "counterfeit" and I shouldn't get them back 😞 Now I know next time, always take a return, and hope I get what I sent back.

Re: How to pay for dispute

justkidzbiz — Wed, 11 Jan 2017 04:52:27 GMT

Also, if/when you get the package back, check the weight and photograph it before opening it. If it is fake and the weight doesn't match what you sent originally it can be used as proof/evidence. You should also keep the international post declaration as this will have the original weight noted on it.

Re: How to pay for dispute

justkidzbiz — Wed, 11 Jan 2017 05:03:49 GMT

A lot of people think that once you escalate and ask eBay to step in (me included, before I found out the following) that the buyer is automatically refunded. After a dispute I had where I escalated after speaking on the phone to eBay they told me that the buyer isn't automatically refunded, eBay asks PayPal to put a hold on the funds - which looks like the buyer has been refunded, as I said to eBay CS and they agreed it is quite misleading. They told me the buyer won't actually get access to the funds until the dispute is resolved and closed, or that tracking shows the item has been returned and delivered to the seller.

the problem I can see with your dispute is that you can't generate a return post label via eBay, you would have do it via Click and Send (I've done it this way before) and then upload the tracking number to the dispute.

let us know how you go. I'm crossing my fingers for you.

Re: How to pay for dispute

lyndal1838 — Wed, 11 Jan 2017 05:16:32 GMT

The OP cannot generate a return postage label through Australia Post as the buyer is in the USA.....he will have to pay an agreed amount for postage through paypal.

Re: How to pay for dispute

justkidzbiz — Wed, 11 Jan 2017 07:35:10 GMT

Thanks Lyndal, wasn't sure about C&S with International post but it can be done for domestic but obviously won't help with the OP's probs.

Re: How to pay for dispute

lyndal1838 — Wed, 11 Jan 2017 07:46:14 GMT

Return labels can be generated for buyers in Australia but not for overseas buyers.

It is the same with any ebay site....you can only generate a return label if the buyer is using the same postage system as the seller.

Re: How to pay for dispute

justkidzbiz — Wed, 11 Jan 2017 17:55:45 GMT

I noticed C&S will now let you print return labels for parcels sent to New Zealand providing you send 1000 parcels per year. Apparently they are looking at introducing more countries in the future. That can only be a good thing with the number of overseas scammers or buyers wanting to return an item. But only suitable for large volume sellers.

https://auspost.com.au/business-solutions/parcel-shipping-couriers/parcel-returns#tab1

Re: How to pay for dispute

moto288 — Wed, 11 Jan 2017 23:08:19 GMT

Thanks again justkidzbiz and thanks lyndal1838. Unfortunately in my case, eBay's closed both escalated cases in the buyer's favour already (but thankfully reversed one with unknown reasons), so yes, I've emailed eBay and they confirmed that I won't be getting my item back. What I'm unsure of is how solid eBay's system is. As I know my items are definitely authentic, I'd like to know what kind of documentation would they need to believe what the buyer says? I've read online that in some cases all they need is a signed statutory declaration, or perhaps all they need is a letter from some dodgy local shop. eBay's obviously have something to hide as they refuse to provide that. If it's an authentication letter from Hermes, then there's no privacy issue. I have the buyer's name and address in any case, which is why I'm suspicious.

I've actually offered (during the return request phase) to the buyer that I'll reimburse them the postage as I can't generate a shipping label, but the buyer totally ignored my offer and insisted I provide a shipping label. I suspect they know this loophole and all they were doing was waiting for the return request period to lapse and then they'll escalate it so they'll get both the money and the item.

Re: How to pay for dispute

padi*0409 — Wed, 11 Jan 2017 23:23:07 GMT

I'm pretty sure there was a case like this a few months ago where a seller had a dispute with an overseas buyer over a high-end watch, he took to eBay's facebook page and after a lot of exchanges there the matter was eventually resolved in the seller's favour.

Somebody may have the link to that thread, I can't find it.

Re: How to pay for dispute

moto288 — Wed, 11 Jan 2017 23:36:12 GMT

Thanks padi*0409, I'll have a look! You're right, might actually be helpful to complain on social media these days!

I've written an email to the CEO, and guess what, no replies! CEO email's are generally responsive to direct customer complaints but obviously not the eBay CEO. Such a failure of a company.

Re: How to pay for dispute

imastawka — Thu, 12 Jan 2017 00:41:45 GMT

I'm wondering if you could try ACORN

You've nothing to lose at this stage. Try them.

https://www.acorn.gov.au/

Re: How to pay for dispute

justkidzbiz — Thu, 12 Jan 2017 01:17:45 GMT

Keep ringing eBay demanding that they advise the buyer to return the items. If they have advised PayPal to refund the buyer then the item then belongs to you again. This is such a big flaw in the MBG. IMO eBay do not have the right to tell a buyer they can keep an item as well as receive an item.

Advise ebay that you personally purchased these items from the Hermes store several years ago and that you find it ludicrous that they are advising the buyer to keep the item as well as receiving a refund.

Do a Google search on International eBay fraud and see if you can find any similar cases. I'll see what I can find out.

Im guessing the buyer is well aware of the dispute process in regards to how to report "fake" items and that as such "fake" items cannot be sent through the post.

this is absolutely disgraceful conduct on eBay's part. They need to substantiate their reasons for a) refunding the buyer and b) how they have deemed this item to be fake when it is in fact genuine.

There is no way I would be letting this go.

I really feel feel for you Moto.

Re: How to pay for dispute

justkidzbiz — Thu, 12 Jan 2017 01:26:47 GMT

This makes for interesting reading!

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2016/apr/25/ebay-seller-beware-buyer-guarantee-exploited-scammers

Re: How to pay for dispute

*tippy*toes* — Thu, 12 Jan 2017 02:01:57 GMT

@padi*0409 wrote:
I'm pretty sure there was a case like this a few months ago where a seller had a dispute with an overseas buyer over a high-end watch, he took to eBay's facebook page and after a lot of exchanges there the matter was eventually resolved in the seller's favour.

Somebody may have the link to that thread, I can't find it.

Was it the TAG phone scam you were thinking of Padi? The seller listed a genuine TAG phone and the Canadian buyer claimed it was fake and sent photos of a completely different phone. I haven't read through all 286 messages, but it might be worth the OP spending half an hour going through them all. The thread ran for nearly 3 weeks, but the seller won in the end.

http://community.ebay.com.au/t5/Selling/I-have-a-feeling-we-fell-for-a-scam-buyer-claiming-counterfeit/td-p/1675564/highlight/true