topic Re: Suspected scam: buyer claiming item missing. What are my chances? in Selling

Suspected scam: buyer claiming item missing. What are my chances?

amcamari — Mon, 30 Jan 2017 10:29:34 GMT

Buyer bought 2 items. Both were postage together. Buyer is claiming that only one was in the parcel. I know that both were definitely sent. Has anyone experienced this situation?

Re: Suspected scam: buyer claiming item missing. What are my chances?

kopenhagen5 — Mon, 30 Jan 2017 10:53:51 GMT

Yes, the sorting machine ripped the bottom of the envelope and I only received some of the coins.

I have also sent items overseas, they arrive with some missing and the package having been tampered with.

Ask if the buyer can send photos of the package as it must have been tampered with.

Then let them know AP may require a stat dec in order to pursue a case of possible stolen item from the package.

And the police may need the packaging as evidence.

You may not hear back from them. Or it could be genuine.

Re: Suspected scam: buyer claiming item missing. What are my chances?

lyndal1838 — Mon, 30 Jan 2017 10:55:13 GMT

How were they paid for? Did the buyer pay for each item seperately or were they paid for on the one invoice.?

How did the buyer pay....paypal or bank deposit?

Were they sent with tracking?

Re: Suspected scam: buyer claiming item missing. What are my chances?

amcamari — Mon, 30 Jan 2017 11:29:12 GMT

Paid for together via Paypal. Sent with tracking. Buyer hasn't said anything about the parcel arriving damaged... or anything to suggest it's been tampered with. My gut feeling is they are just trying to get a freebie.

Re: Suspected scam: buyer claiming item missing. What are my chances?

digital*ghost — Mon, 30 Jan 2017 11:30:52 GMT

@amcamari wrote:
Has anyone experienced this situation?

All the gosh-darn time. 😞

I sell craft supplies, so people often buy various items, and it also means people often have a use for multiple quantities. Unfortunately, this leads to some people attempting to acquire those multiple quantities deceptively and I frequently get messages saying that they didn't get all of the quantity purchased, or that there was an item missing entirely.

I should stress that not everyone who messages me about missing items is being deceptive - I can make mistakes (and most definitely have), so if someone messages about this kind of issue, I give them the benefit of the doubt to start with.

However, because this was starting to become a serious problem for me, I started taking some measures that would help me, and now keep meticulous records of everything, including weight of items, weight of package, photos of contents etc, so if I get a message and I look up these records, I can see straight away if I missed anything when I packed the order.

If I did not miss anything from their order, I reply and provide assurance to this fact, referencing (and in some cases, supplying) the records that I keep. I then ask a few clarifying questions regarding packaging, condition on arrival etc, and outline the steps that need to be taken if the package was tampered with. So far, 100% of the time where I have not missed out any items, and I have responded in this manner to the buyer, I either hear nothing further or they message back to say they found the missing items.

Re: Suspected scam: buyer claiming item missing. What are my chances?

lyndal1838 — Mon, 30 Jan 2017 11:46:43 GMT

@amcamari wrote:
Paid for together via Paypal. Sent with tracking. Buyer hasn't said anything about the parcel arriving damaged... or anything to suggest it's been tampered with. My gut feeling is they are just trying to get a freebie.

It definitely sounds like that.....you have done everything right.

Have they opened a dispute yet?

Re: Suspected scam: buyer claiming item missing. What are my chances?

amcamari — Mon, 30 Jan 2017 12:08:04 GMT

No... no dispute yet, but I'm expecting it. They have left some unpleasant feedback for other sellers in the past... of which some responded that they were scammed by this buyer.

Re: Suspected scam: buyer claiming item missing. What are my chances?

clarry100 — Mon, 30 Jan 2017 20:45:22 GMT

We get this sometimes too....

In order to combat this issue I have considered putting a surveillance camera above our packing table.

It only has to be a time lapse capturing at say 2 frames per second or something like that.

Then if someone complains about this I can deny their claim and show them the footage if they still don't believe me.

Not too sure how/if such evidence would stand up in a formal claim tho.

Re: Suspected scam: buyer claiming item missing. What are my chances?

transport-posters — Mon, 30 Jan 2017 21:19:40 GMT

In order to win against eBay or PayPal, I think the camera would have to be clearly shown the finished packed parcel with the name and address on it, and also a "postage paid" stamp. You can buy the stamp from AP for about $35 as they tried to sell me one before for this reason.

Once I sent a poster to WA and the tube arrived undamaged but inside the poster had been removed, completely scrunched up and wrecked, then put back into the tube and sealed again like nothing had happened. You can imagine how ridiculous this appeared to my buyer and how pee'd off I was! Very bizarre.

Re: Suspected scam: buyer claiming item missing. What are my chances?

everard6920 — Mon, 30 Jan 2017 23:43:33 GMT

Send them something like this. The following was taken from the US boards some time ago - the link doesn't seem to work but I saved the text. The buyer claimed they received an empty package and this is how the seller dealt with it:

BUYER:

I got a empty package so can u please give me my refund ?

SELLER:

Hi

This is theft. I'll need to make a police report. Please give all the details you can, and send me a picture of exactly of what you received.Also, what's the telephone number if your local post office- they're not supposed to deliver tampered packages without making a report, so your postman has some explaining to do. I'll file with the postal inspector too.

Thanks for letting me know of this.

This was delivered 8 days ago, why are you just now telling me?

BUYER:

It wasnt tampered witn it had papers and one motor

SELLER:

Oh, it was certainly tampered with, because I sent an entire kit. Is the link below your local police department? batesvillepd dot com / I'll report the theft to your local police on Monday, and open a case with the postal inspector. They'll likely be in contact with you shortly.

BUYER:

No dont worry about it

SELLER:

If someone has stolen from me, or my customer, if I don't report it, it's like me being an accomplice in the theft. Please send me all the info you can, pictures, contact info to the post office and other.

BUYER:

I ordered 2 package 1 from u and another seller I have yours now that I am reading the labels i contacted the wrong seller thanks for your concern and sorry to bother u

Re: Suspected scam: buyer claiming item missing. What are my chances?

davewil1964 — Tue, 31 Jan 2017 05:47:12 GMT

I notice the change from empty to 'some' contents happened quite early in the discussion.

Re: Suspected scam: buyer claiming item missing. What are my chances?

amcamari — Mon, 06 Feb 2017 01:53:49 GMT

I too keep records of my parcels (including weights of individual items), but this buyer doesn't seem interested in these details.

I know the "missing item" was in the parcel when I posted it, and they state the parcel arrived to them intact. So what can I conclude from this apart from that it must be in their possession?!

They are requesting a refund or for me to "send another".

By requesting that I send another, that implies that they know I've already sent the first one.

I've read on the forums that a lot of sellers tend to just refund and move on (and block) in similar cases. But doesn't this just encourage the buyer to do this kind of thing again?

If I do provide a refund or send another, is it best to do this before they open a case, or during the case?

Re: Suspected scam: buyer claiming item missing. What are my chances?

digital*ghost — Mon, 06 Feb 2017 03:13:30 GMT

If the buyer is being stubbornly insistent, it really comes down to a matter of personal choice with how you deal with it. Personally, I think there are valid arguments for being done with it in the simplest, most time-effective and stress-less way, and also valid arguments for fighting to the end.

I had one buyer tell me they got one less of something than they were supposed to because they had extra of a matching piece that goes with it - I tried to tell them that I always include extra pieces of that, because they're really small and easy to lose so I add them out of courtesy, but in the end I just refunded them $1 to be done with it - about 2 x what the "missing" bit was actually worth... The case that prompted me to keep even more thorough records than I was already sounds very similar to your buyer, too.

I knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that I had sent all items they ordered, but they refused / ignored all of my attempts to resolve the matter amicably and just kept on insisting I send more or give them a 50% refund. In the end, I guess since I wouldn't cave without trying to get some proper details from them, they went straight to PayPal and opened a dispute. At that stage I was no longer willing to make attempts to resolve and just selected the 'return for refund option'.

The buyer decided to be clever and sent something small in a registered letter. I knew what it was as soon as I received it, and that it didn't contain my items, so I didn't open it, instead I called PayPal and requested their advice. Well... They told me unless I could tell them what was inside the envelope, they'd just find in favour of the buyer (I wanted a credible third-party witness to me opening it, but the PP rep basically made it seem like I had to tell him right then and there or else). So, the rep listened to me open the envelope (and photograph every stage). Then I sent everything through to them.

As soon as they got all my evidence, they immediately found in favour of the buyer but said that due to "unusual circumstances", they wouldn't take the funds from me. So, buyer did get a refund, but I didn't pay for it (small comfort, they didn't deserve anything, though I reported them to ACORN at least ).

So, for me, it's the pre-emptive methods that are the most effective, and sending through the photos to show exactly what was packaged has been the most effective (it was pointless with the $1-refund buyer I mentioned above, but for everyone else since I started doing that, they just haven't been able to come back with anything....so far *touch wood* ).

Re: Suspected scam: buyer claiming item missing. What are my chances?

digital*ghost — Mon, 06 Feb 2017 03:23:14 GMT

@amcamari wrote:

I've read on the forums that a lot of sellers tend to just refund and move on (and block) in similar cases. But doesn't this just encourage the buyer to do this kind of thing again?

If I do provide a refund or send another, is it best to do this before they open a case, or during the case?

BTW, just thought I'd add, in a case where the buyer won't take no for an answer and I couldn't confidently defend their claims, I would refund rather than send out more. Often, sending out more is cheaper, but if someone is claiming missing contents and wants more, but I don't believe them, I'd rather end it there and then, instead of prolonging the "relationship" with them, and/or risk sending out another package that arrives with missing contents.

So, if my only choice was refund or replace in these kinds of circumstances, I'd block, refund, and be done.

Re: Suspected scam: buyer claiming item missing. What are my chances?

amcamari — Mon, 06 Feb 2017 04:03:25 GMT

It's good to hear another's experience.

If I refund, would I need to refund any of the postage amount?

The two items sent had their postage amounts added together, so they were sent with tracking, rather than untracked if sent separately.

(Items were combined and paid for together).

Re: Suspected scam: buyer claiming item missing. What are my chances?

digital*ghost — Mon, 06 Feb 2017 04:22:22 GMT

If I voluntarily refund one item out of an order, I usually just cancel the transaction for that item only, which at least credits me back the fees. I know if you refund on one item in an order through an eBay request, it automatically refunds a portion of the postage as well though (e.g. if there were 2 items it will refund 50% and if there were 5 items it will refund 20% of postage).

If not at the dispute stage, though, you can manually refund an amount of your own choosing via PayPal.

Re: Suspected scam: buyer claiming item missing. What are my chances?

amcamari — Mon, 06 Feb 2017 10:26:05 GMT

I don't seem to have the option to cancel for the single item, just the option to cancel the whole order (which I don't want to do).