topic Re: Buyer looking for refund in Selling

Buyer looking for refund

ntnjj23 — Wed, 15 Mar 2017 23:21:26 GMT

Hi, Looking for an opinion. Sold an Applie iPod Touch, 1st Generation. Wiped the item back to factory settings. Item was working before being packaged and sent. The item was packaged correctly and sent to successful buyer. Postage was listed as general post. Buyer did not request insurance or ask for registered mail. I have been told that the item has arrived with a cracked screen (no photo supplied) and that the buyer can't get it to sync to his computer. Have suggested that it will need updated software as it was wiped to factory settings. Buyer does not appear to be all that tech savy. Buyer is requesting a refund. I feel that all the correct things have been done here, and not sure where to from here. I have followed all the rules according to ebay. Appreciate any advice.

Re: Buyer looking for refund

clarry100 — Wed, 15 Mar 2017 23:41:03 GMT

Firstly, I would be insisting on the photo showing the cracked screen. Although the photo could be of an old one the buyer already owns.

Did you keep a record of the serial number of the item you sent out?

Did you have a photo on your listing showing the serial number plate?

If the buyer opens a return case against you for Item Not As Described (INAD) then you will only have a limited set of choices:

1). Fully refund and the buyer keeps the item,

2). Accept the return and pay for return postage. Then fully refund after the returned item is acceptable to you.

3). Negotiate a partial refund with the buyer.

Despite that you may have followed "all the ebay rules" if the buyer is claiming it has arrived damaged ebay will simply believe that.

The reason I asked about the serial number above is that the buyer could return an old item they already owned that had a cracked screen. So you need to know if the one you get back is the exact one you sent out.

Unless you took out extra cover insurance with Aust Post (I assume this was the carrier) then you will have no chance of compensation from them. Even with insurance, damage is very difficult to claim as they will just say it was not adequately packaged and reject your claim.

Re: Buyer looking for refund

clarry100 — Wed, 15 Mar 2017 23:47:43 GMT

*** Footnote ***

When you send an item out, tracking and insurance is to protect you, the seller, not the buyer.

The buyer is not going to pay any extra for this kind of thing as they already have all the protection they need via the ebay Money back Guarantee (MBG).

So you have to build the cost of these things into the sale price to cover yourself against total loss by the carrier and/or Item Not Received (INR) cases against you. It's not up to the buyer to "choose" this, its up you you to "do" it.

Re: Buyer looking for refund

phorum_junkie* — Wed, 15 Mar 2017 23:59:07 GMT

You say you packaged it and sent it correctly, does that mean you sent it regular parcel, not in a satchel, with a road only sticker on it as that is the only way you should be posting an iphone to comply with AP's rules.

I presume you kept a note of the IMIE number so inform the buyer that you will be cancelling service on the phone and locking it so it cannot be used until you receive it back.

If it is indeed the same phone then I doubt if you can prove to ebay's satisfaction that it was not cracked when the buyer received it and you did not insure it so have no claim against AP.

You should jus ask for it to be returned then once you have it back and have checked it is the same phone refund their money and decide if it is worth paying to have the screen repaired before reselling it.

Some members seem to do very well selling with a broken screen, may be best to do that.

Re: Buyer looking for refund

clarry100 — Thu, 16 Mar 2017 00:38:16 GMT

@phorum_junkie* wrote:

I presume you kept a note of the IMIE number so inform the buyer that you will be cancelling service on the phone and locking it so it cannot be used until you receive it back.

The OP said they sold a 1st generation iPod Touch, not a phone.

These are a music device are they not.

So I don't think they have an IMEI number and any service as would a phone.

But they should have a serial number tho.

I could stand corrected if I'm wrong about this tho.

Re: Buyer looking for refund

snowbunnies2016 — Fri, 17 Mar 2017 16:47:57 GMT

Money Back Guarantee

Not covered
Buyer's remorse
Any reason besides not receiving the item or receiving an item not as described in the listing (see the seller's return policy for return options)
Items damaged during pick-up or postage
Items not delivered when the buyer arranges pick-up or delivery of the item (for instance, the buyer arranges freight)
Duplicate claims through other resolution methods
Click & Collect items that weren't collected by the buyer
Local pickup items that weren't collected by the buyer
Items sent to another address after original delivery
Vehicles, Real Estate, Websites & Business for Sale, Classified Ads and services, Tickets, Digital Goods and Intangibles, Gift Cards

Re: Buyer looking for refund

clarry100 — Fri, 17 Mar 2017 20:37:07 GMT

@snowbunnies2016 wrote:
Money Back Guarantee

Not covered
Buyer's remorse
Any reason besides not receiving the item or receiving an item not as described in the listing (see the seller's return policy for return options)
Items damaged during pick-up or postage
Items not delivered when the buyer arranges pick-up or delivery of the item (for instance, the buyer arranges freight)
Duplicate claims through other resolution methods
Click & Collect items that weren't collected by the buyer
Local pickup items that weren't collected by the buyer
Items sent to another address after original delivery
Vehicles, Real Estate, Websites & Business for Sale, Classified Ads and services, Tickets, Digital Goods and Intangibles, Gift Cards

I realise the ebay policy for exclusion from their MBG says exactly what you have highlighted in red bold.

However, the reality is that ebay will rarely support the seller in such a case.

The only way you could get such support is to somehow be able to prove to ebay beyond any shadow of doubt that the item was indeed damaged in transit, then they would have to stand by their policy you have highlighted. But such a thing is almost impossible to prove as they will just say we never saw the item when it was packaged and hence will support the buyer by default. Even photographs taken during packaging will not stand up.

If the buyer opens a SNAD case in this instance the seller will have little choice but to compensate the buyer in full.

Re: Buyer looking for refund

phorum_junkie* — Fri, 17 Mar 2017 23:58:37 GMT

Humble apologies, need to start putting the reading glasses on or increasing the screen size lol.

Re: Buyer looking for refund

snowbunnies2016 — Sat, 18 Mar 2017 01:19:51 GMT

I hear you Clarry, this is the problem with their policies. They say blah blah, seller protection, but at the end of the day the don't follow their own policies. Same goes when a buyer sends back a different item.....eBay says well the buyer sent an item we have to refund them. It's just ridiculous!

i just posted that in case the seller wants to push eBays own policies with them.

Re: Buyer looking for refund

digital*ghost — Sat, 18 Mar 2017 13:54:19 GMT

@snowbunnies2016 wrote:
I hear you Clarry, this is the problem with their policies. They say blah blah, seller protection, but at the end of the day the don't follow their own policies.

The main issue with their policies (and probably the reason they can't follow them) is that often they are directly contradictory.

For example, the bit highlighted in red above clearly shows items damaged during post aren't eligible for the the MBG.

And yet, there's this:

http://pages2.ebay.com.au/eBay_Money_Back_Guarantee

So, the only thing I can conclude, is that they have no clue what they are doing (which in turn suggests they should stay far, far away from making decisions about other people's transactions, but here we are 😞 ).

Re: Buyer looking for refund

designers*n*more — Sat, 18 Mar 2017 16:00:45 GMT

Oh wow, hadn't read that one Digi. What a joke!

Re: Buyer looking for refund

designers*n*more — Sat, 18 Mar 2017 16:13:10 GMT

I've contacted Help asking for clarification between the two contradicting policies. Will be interesting to see what the response is. Will post back when I get a response!

Re: Buyer looking for refund

clarry100 — Sat, 18 Mar 2017 20:28:27 GMT

I was not aware of that blatant cointradiction in policies either DG. Thanks for highlighting that one.

It would be interesteing to see their response to the clarification question on this one. I'm sure they will find a way to wiggle around it tho.

As you say there must be many such contradictions in their policies. Plain wrong really that they should be making decisions when this exists.

Re: Buyer looking for refund

clarry100 — Sat, 18 Mar 2017 20:35:32 GMT

IMHO "Damage in Transit" should not be allowed as a buyer SNAD claim under the terms of their MBG as its impossible for any seller to predict what damage (if any) might occur during transit and correctly describe that damage in the listing so that the damage it arrives with has been fully described in the listing.

Any guesses at the kind of wording one might use in a listing to head off such SNAD claims so any such claim by a buyer could be invalidated by the seller.

Re: Buyer looking for refund

phorum_junkie* — Sun, 19 Mar 2017 00:32:03 GMT

If damage in transit is not allowed as not as described then who should compensate the buyer if I pack a china item in a satchel with no internal packaging? Obviously not A~P's fault, not ebay's fault, not Paypal's fault and definitely not the buyer's fault.

A solution could be that buyer should have to take the damaged item and packaging to the PO and put in a claim, if that is allowed then there is no need for them to ask ebay to step in as AP will compensate them. If the seller failed to pay for insurance if it is over $50 then they should have to pay the balance. If the buyer refuses to do that then ebay should turn down their claim or pay the compensation themselves if they feel it is due.

Alternatively the buyer should have to return the item with the packaging and a copy of the form assigning the right to claim to the seller. The seller then refunds and if the packaging was good enough AP will compensate them, if it wasn't then they have to refund the refund postage as well on top of the original refund.

Of course it will never happen and ebay will remain as intractable as ever but it is always worth calling ebay and pleading your case, it costs nothing and now and again they make a right decision.

Re: Buyer looking for refund

clarry100 — Sun, 19 Mar 2017 04:37:01 GMT

Yep agree... something needs to change.

Perhaps there needs to be a third MBG claim category.

Then processes similar to what you describe have to take place.

Yes you are correct that if the seller inadequately packs an item and it gets damaged then only the seller should be held responsible.

But there should be some onus placed on the buyer to show proof that the item is indeed damaged beyond repair and is unusable.

As you say once the buyer receives the item the onus is on them to chase Aust Post for compensation as the item (and its packaging) is in their ownership then. But if AP say inadequate packaging, which they undoubtedly will, then there will have to be some haggling to decide if it is seller responsibility or AP responsibility. But it should not be buyer responsibility definitley.

Complex issue and, sadly, unlikely to change any time soon.

But I don't believe it should be allowed as a claim for item significantly not as described.

Re: Buyer looking for refund

designers*n*more — Tue, 21 Mar 2017 00:24:07 GMT

EBay's clarification on "Damaged in Transit" for Money Back Guarantee

its interesting to note what the clarifications are, but nowhere in the policies is this explained!

eBay
RE: Re: Handling returns from buyers SR# 1-107593025826

Hi,

Thanks for getting back to us in regard to our ebay money back guarantee policy.

I understand that you want to clear things out in regard to our coverage for our money back guarantee policy. I'm here to help and guide you with this transaction.

I've checked the communication that you've sent us in regard to our policy for damaged item during postage. To clarify everything let me discuss into details what we've meant for the policy that you're inquiring for.

Not Covered
Items damaged during pick-up or postage - this is not covered once the item was pick up and filed a claim for a physical damage for an item. This also refers to an item that was posted and the buyer is the one who initiated the delivery for the transaction.

Covered
An item isn't received or it isn't significantly as described in the listing. - this claim is covered once the item is not as described from the sellers listing. This goes when you've received a damage item and the seller is the one who initiated delivery.

I trust that I've explained everything clearly. Thanks for choosing eBay.

Kind Regards,

April A.

Re: Buyer looking for refund

digital*ghost — Tue, 21 Mar 2017 09:49:59 GMT

Interesting, and a little curious - the MBG used to state that (albeit in a slightly confusing way), so I still have to wonder if they're talking about the old policy wording, and / or why whoever changed the wording made it such a simple and fairly categoric statement that appears to exclude all transit damage, no matter who organised the shipping. With no provisos, and with such misleading wording, a seller could (legally) push the issue if they wanted to. o.o