topic Re: Buyer requests refund with false claim in Selling

Buyer requests refund with false claim

audistarelectronics — Fri, 28 Jul 2017 19:48:51 GMT

Hi all, sold a computer recording interface unit that was in mint cond, only a few months old. Bidders got into a frenzy and the result was the winner paid almost the new price for the item. Then after a week or so, requests a refund as he claims that the unit has scratches, which it simply did not, and that it didn't come with the software stated in the original listing, and no licence registration details were supplied etc. All relevent required details were supplied with the original manual and a separate paper that showed the registration details, and the process to go to the manufacturers website and access the extra software. Then states that ''the unit records ok'', well it cannot do anything until it is registered. Beats me. Then the usb cable supplied was really ''stiff'', well yes, it probably was as it was still new and coiled up. I have replied with all details negating the claim to a refund, and even giving further help on registering the unit, but it will probably end up in a claim via ebay as I am pretty certain the reason behind the gripe is that after paying ''too much'' for the item, realized that he could go for a refund and get a brand newey for the same money. Should have done some research in the first place. Really has left a bad taste in my mouth as I have been on ebay for many years, with a 100% positive score and it is a pain when you have to go through this rubbish to maintain your status.

Re: Buyer requests refund with false claim

springyzone — Fri, 28 Jul 2017 21:56:40 GMT

I haven't got much in the way of advice but I would love to know how you get on and what you decide to do.

Your story makes me shudder a bit-have had something similar happen years ago (not with electronics, with a desk).

Buyer said she thought it 'would be better for the price.' The price started at $20 for a used desk in VGC, pick up only & the woman was from interstate, bid about $65-$70 then wanted us to arrange a courier. So by the time she got it, it had cost her closer to $150.

That's the thing-I think buyers do get carried away then they're not happy at all with the price they paid-no matter how honest your description was.

I'd say computers & electronics are one of those high risk areas on ebay for sellers. I suppose the problem is if you accept it as a return because it 'wasn't as described', you're up for return postage too.

I'm glad you haven't just rolled over & automatically given in to them. They may not start a claim.

But if they do, my guess is ebay will probably side with them.

Still, could be worth doing what you are doing-resisting until then.

Let us know how you get on!

Re: Buyer requests refund with false claim

audistarelectronics — Fri, 28 Jul 2017 22:44:42 GMT

Hi, yes, it was a last second snipe for the buyer who then has second thoughts. It went for $160 plus 10 postage. A new item is $180 free postage. Enough said there. I have replied with plenty of information which should......clear things up if it is escalated. Sent off another copy of the registration details, and a screen shot from the suppliers website which clearly shows what software is included once device is registered. Also, buyer claimed he assumed the item was a 2nd generation and that is what he really wanted. Only problem was, nowhere in the listing did I claim it was a 2nd gen unit. Buyers should learn to not assume anything when bidding. I have offered to supply a brand new usb cable as he complains that the supplied cable is stiff. I just wish I could be as picky when buying used items. Will keep you posted. I will be supplying as much info to ebay as required if it gets any hotter.

Re: Buyer requests refund with false claim

clarry100 — Fri, 28 Jul 2017 22:50:26 GMT

Has the buyer submitted a formal claim (return case) as yet? Or just thru ebay messages so far.

If you are able to "fob" them off thru messages so they don't open a formal claim then you will be OK. They could still leve negative FB which will be difficult to have removed.

If they do open a formal return claim for INAD because of the claimed scratches then I'm afraid to say you are likely doomed on this sale. INAD cases are notoriously difficult to defend as ebay usually sides with the buyer on these.

If you can prove the item IS as described then you will be OK but that is going to be a pretty tough road as ebay are most likely to side with the buyer if no scratches were described or pictured on the listing. Even if the buyer is lying about these ebay will believe them. You could ask the buyer to send you a pic showing the scratches they claim are there.

If the buyer opens a formal case against you, the likely outcomes are as follows:

1). Negotiate a partial refund and the buyer keeps the item as is. No seller defect will be recorded.

2). Agree to accept the return but you will need to pay for return postage. Then when the item is received back with full tracking issue a full refund. No seller defect will be recorded.

3). Refund in full and buyer keeps the item as is. No seller defect will be recorded.

4). Do nothing at all in which case ebay will very likely forcibly refund the buyer from your funds and you will be awarded a seller defect. And they keep the item.

Good luck with this and keep us informed along the way.

Re: Buyer requests refund with false claim

clarry100 — Fri, 28 Jul 2017 22:53:54 GMT

@audistarelectronics wrote:
Hi, yes, it was a last second snipe for the buyer who then has second thoughts. It went for $160 plus 10 postage. A new item is $180 free postage. Enough said there. I have replied with plenty of information which should......clear things up if it is escalated. Sent off another copy of the registration details, and a screen shot from the suppliers website which clearly shows what software is included once device is registered. Also, buyer claimed he assumed the item was a 2nd generation and that is what he really wanted. Only problem was, nowhere in the listing did I claim it was a 2nd gen unit. Buyers should learn to not assume anything when bidding. I have offered to supply a brand new usb cable as he complains that the supplied cable is stiff. I just wish I could be as picky when buying used items. Will keep you posted. I will be supplying as much info to ebay as required if it gets any hotter.

A seller always has to assume not the buyer by ebay rules.

It is seller responsibility to clearly state everything in the description and/or pics, even the obvious if you want to give yourself any chance of winning a possible dispute downstream.

Re: Buyer requests refund with false claim

audistarelectronics — Sat, 29 Jul 2017 00:22:33 GMT

Hi, many thanks. Yes, I have already requested a photo from the buyer re the alledged scratches. There were none went it was sent, and there were none showing in the original listing pic. It is only he said she said at the moment, I sent plenty of info back to the seller which really, should hit it on the head. The buyer has not replied since the first request for a refund, no reply with a pic of the ''scratches'' either. The item was described to a ''T'' and left nothing to be assumed. This guy is just trying one on because he didn't research the cost of a new item and went crazy with his snipe bid. If I lose this one, my first since joining in 2008, and 100% positives on my account, ebay can forget I ever had an account with them. The seller commissions and postal cost these days are just a joke anyway, I wouldn't miss it.

Re: Buyer requests refund with false claim

davidc4430 — Sat, 29 Jul 2017 00:43:35 GMT

this is another example of why ebay has changed from its original platform as a good place to sell used items to a place where anything not new is now treated the same as new items.

was i time when it was buyer beware when choosing to buy used items, ask questions, ask for more photos ect ect. do not expect a used item to be new.

now ebay has policies to treat every item like a new item, handing out refunds at the drop of a hat.

buyers now get treated like royalty when making claims. sellers really are left out in the cold.

ive seen so many here getting the same replies, if a claim is made you will lose if you fight. and that should not be the outcome in a fair system.

if i buy a used item i should expect it to look used. but as long as it does what it was said to do thats all that matters, not does a cable feel 'stiff' or its got a 'scratch'.....its not new! if i want a perfect item i should buy a new item.

ebay really doesnt want people selling used items it seems to me.

Re: Buyer requests refund with false claim

audistarelectronics — Sat, 29 Jul 2017 02:34:47 GMT

Yep, all true. This item was absolutely shop condition, and it left nothing that could be complained about. Just because the buyer didn't read what was supplied regarding the registration details, and made a mistaken purchase, I cop the uppercut it seems.

I have a relative who is a lawyer and they have viewed both sides to this and said that the buyer wouldn't have a case in a normal civil claims court, but as ebay is a law unto itself, I guess I am on the way to being out of pocket for no fault of my own. Anyhow, we will see.

Re: Buyer requests refund with false claim

phorum_junkie* — Sat, 29 Jul 2017 10:06:52 GMT

Even though you have responded by message I would ring ebay using the call me back option and explain that you are sure the buyer is just regretting making the purchase and that if they check your reply they will see that the buyer's issues are not anything which was not disclosed in the listing. sometimes that will put ebay on the alert and they will look at the case properly and not just auto reply that the seller is at fault. It costs nothing to try and ebay claim they are looking more sympathetically at the seller's case, this will be a good example of if that is true.

Re: Buyer requests refund with false claim

audistarelectronics — Sat, 29 Jul 2017 23:45:34 GMT

Hi all, just realized this guy must have taken this straight to a claim first up, as I have a Paypal hold on my account for the payment. To do this before he even recieved my reply to his request for a refund says to me that he wasn't going to accept any answer from me regardless. The hold was enacted the same day I received his refund claim. Says to me even further, that he made an error with his snipe and is now trying anything to get out of the deal. If ever I have had any issues with an item, I always talk to the seller first, only escalating if they ignore me.

Re: Buyer requests refund with false claim

*tippy*toes* — Sun, 30 Jul 2017 00:06:23 GMT

I would be doing an eBay call back and tell them to read the messages between you. If he's now claiming he feels he paid too much, then it has nothing to do with whether it's as described or not. Some buyers think you'll just lay down and die, and give into their demands. This is clearly because he now feels he paid to much. Don't give him the satisfaction. If he negs you, so what. I'd be certainly letting eBay know what's going on before he has a chance to escalate the dispute.

Re: Buyer requests refund with false claim

audistarelectronics — Mon, 31 Jul 2017 22:44:02 GMT

Hi all, I stuffed this one this morning. Opened emails and there was an Ebay one advising me that I need to respond to the buyers claim for a refund by tommorrow or the case will be closed and a refund ordered. I quickly went to the request case file, as I knew I had sent through several messages that would have hit the claim on the head. I even phoned Ebay yesterday and spoke to them, as advised in some members replies to this post, and the Ebay person aknowledged the replies, and was reading them while the conversation was taking place. Half asleep early this morning, and confused by the Ebay email, must have clicked on the accept return instead of the send buyer a message button. Then, in an instant, it was asking me for a return label!! All too easy, no double checking to confirm etc. Guess I have screwed my case now, unless someone has got some fast advice. I will no longer sell on Ebay, all to much in favor of fraudulent buyers claiming refunds where not valid.

Re: Buyer requests refund with false claim

audistarelectronics — Mon, 31 Jul 2017 22:57:31 GMT

I meant to add also, I note how the accept return button is already ''activated'' when you go to that page. I must have forgot to change it to send buyer a message, before I went to the next stage. What a trap for the unwary that one is. Shouldn[t it be similar to most other forms where YOU have to actually click on the button to activate it. Looks like an expensive mistake on my part. Good on you Ebay, gets rid of another too hard case in favor of the buyer.

Re: Buyer requests refund with false claim

clarry100 — Mon, 31 Jul 2017 23:30:52 GMT

Ebay will/have set all the defaults in favour of the buyer as you have found out.

I think you are committed now to pay for return tracked postage then when you receive the item back issue a full refund.

If you fail to comply now ebay will simply refund in favour of the buyer. And a defect will be recorded on your account.

The only chance you M-A-Y have is to call ebay again and plead that you have inadvertently clicked the wrong button and see if they will reverse that click. But I don't like your chances.

If you are intending to give up selling on ebay after this then the cheaper option now may be to just totally ignore the case and let ebay step in to do the refund.

Re: Buyer requests refund with false claim

audistarelectronics — Tue, 01 Aug 2017 00:16:35 GMT

Have just had some maybe good news, I contacted the head office for the item sold, and it has been registered by the buyer. Looks like he had full intentions of downloading the free software that he could then use, then claim a fraudulent refund from me........well not so fast mate, the fed will be a knocking some time soon. This may not end so well in his favor after all. I wont be sending any monies off just yet dear old ebay.

Re: Buyer requests refund with false claim

audistarelectronics — Thu, 03 Aug 2017 23:23:15 GMT

Hi all, could someone advise what takes place if the buyer fails to return the item by the requested date given by Ebay? It was supposed to be returned by 8th of this month, next Tue. These has been no tracking details uploaded for the item, and it is just showing return started on my account, heard nothing from the buyer or Ebay. Maybe the buyer has got cold feet due to the attempted fraud as mentioned earlier. There is no way possible that it will make it back to me in our remote area of NSW coming from Vic. Does Ebay allow an extention of the return date? Never had an issue on my account, so just requesting some advice. Will be no longer using my account to sell, not even a 50 cent item, too risky for sellers to be scammed these days with the ''one way rules'' Ebay will be the loser, my last two months fees were almost $250 total. The fee on this item in question were only $18. Their loss.

Re: Buyer requests refund with false claim

padi*0409 — Thu, 03 Aug 2017 23:48:07 GMT

All I can think of audi is to call them (or preferably get them to call you back), talk to a supervisor and try that way.

Make sure you get the name and note the time of the call, and ask them to send a confirmation of their decision by email to you.

You may well need to try a few times to get the result you want....................

https://ocsnext.ebay.com.au/ocs/cusr?query=1476&levelHierarchy=2a7a5

Re: Buyer requests refund with false claim

clarry100 — Fri, 04 Aug 2017 00:35:22 GMT

If you do call don't let them talk you into escalating the claim. This will invariably result in closure in favour of the buyer.

You want the CSR to review the facts of the case and if the buyer has not complied with the 5-day limit to initiate the return process then you want the case cancelled with no penalty to you.

They have 5-days to upload the retum post tracking number. Not that you receive it within 5-days.

If the buyer does not do this then you should be able to have the case closed as they buyer has failed in their obligations.

Re: Buyer requests refund with false claim

audistarelectronics — Fri, 04 Aug 2017 00:38:54 GMT

Thanks to both, will wait out the timeframe for the return, then hope they just close it.

Re: Buyer requests refund with false claim

audistarelectronics — Fri, 04 Aug 2017 03:07:52 GMT

Hi all, just incase this buyer claims he didn't receive a postage label from me to return the item, is there a method for me to confirm that it was uploaded into the system. I feel that he could apply for more return time if I cannot prove that I have sent it.