topic Re: Partial refund was paid to seller twice (system errors) in Selling

Partial refund was paid to seller twice (system errors)

fanki1983 — Thu, 28 Sep 2017 03:36:40 GMT

Hi, I offered a partial refund offer to my buyer for $100 parial refund as she is not happy that I did not mention the item I was selling has a dirt mark on it. The opened case was closed on 20/09 as I made my payment via Paypal. Three days later on 23/09, seller lodged another case against me saying she has not received the refund and is still currently opened.

I have checked my Paypal and my bank transcation history - my $100 refund was taken by Paypal TWICE and got sent to buyer accound on 20/09. So the reason behind the buyer send another opened request to ask for more refund is unknown.

I rang up Paypal yesterday first I was told I need to get to eBay first as they are unwilling to reverse the overpaid refund. Then I rang eBay billings team, the lady on the phone said she is happy to write email and ask Paypal to reverse the charge as she can see that the system took my refund twice however she needs buyer to confirm $100 is what we agreed on.

I rang to another eBay customer service staff on phone today and got information that is completely opposite to what I previously got told. She said she can 'see' from my ebay inbox messages history that I include $100 in text when offering the parital refund option. I have to ask Paypal to do reverse charge. (then I was like but is Paypal ask me to contact eBay first!!) She was like "no no Paypal should able to see your partial refund amount is $100).. Its like they just passing this responsbillity like a ball between themselves and nobody would like to take any action.

Long story short, the person on the phone today sent a message to buyer stating "refund is paid twice incorrectly, please repay back to seller within 72 hours". I also wrote buyer a message explaining this.

So now I still have a open case against me about refund not paid as well as I overpaid the refund for extra $100.

Re: Partial refund was paid to seller twice (system errors)

phorum_junkie* — Thu, 28 Sep 2017 09:57:50 GMT

If you still don't have your refund call Paypal again. Ask to speak to a supervisor. If they won't action a refund tell them if you do not receive a refund within 48 hours you are contacting the FSO. If that doesn't help then go to the FSO on line page and submit a claim.

Re: Partial refund was paid to seller twice (system errors)

digital*ghost — Thu, 28 Sep 2017 10:04:02 GMT

I'm not sure I follow everything, by which I mean where each case was opened, how you sent the first refund (i.e through official options in an open case or manually by sending money separately), and why - if both refunds were debited via actions taken in an open case - there would still be one open.

This info may help members to provide better advice on which steps to take next, whether your issue is with ebay or PayPal, or possibly the buyer instead. (eg if the issue is with PayPal, you may have success resolving it by lodging a complaint with the Financial Ombudsman Service).

Re: Partial refund was paid to seller twice (system errors)

fanki1983 — Fri, 29 Sep 2017 00:25:15 GMT

Sorry about my descrpition of buyer opened another case. I wasn't very clear in my previous message. Here is the timeline again

20 Sept - Buyer opened case request partial refund, transcaction was made by me by clicking the opened case and follow the prompts in ebay by selecting the "partial refund option".. Bank transcations and paypal payment history showed two separate $100 was taken from me.

23 Sept. Buyer re-opened another case implying that her funds not received

27 Sept I just realised of what happend of the overcharge, so I rang ebay and paypal multiple times and keep getting conflicting information.

28 Sept Ebay customer service said will send message to buyer asking her to send back $100 overpaid refund. Paypal customer service also said to me will send a 'courtersy email' asking buyer to pay back the money. I also sent a eBay message to buyer reinforcing this.

29 Sept Case is closed as after ebay reviewed the circumstances.

So yes there's only one case all this time, I am sorry for the confusion. .

Yesterday I rang up Paypal and basically again they are saying they are not the 'ones' the responsible, its eBay system fault that allowing 2 lots of refund transcation to go through when I click their 'built in' opened case resolution page by choosing 'partial refund offer.' And I ask what if the buyer not paying (which I think its quite possible), the guy on the phone said 'sorry theres nothing we can do, you have to go back to eBay.'

This is getting RIDICULOUS. eBay says its Paypal responsbility to revert charges and Paypal saying otherwise. They just passing the ball from one to another. I have done the right thing from the beginning and I am getting to nowhere.

I don't even think I can lodge a police report (as this is civil disputes police dont care) because the buyer is not acting in a good faith to keep my extra money..

Re: Partial refund was paid to seller twice (system errors)

fanki1983 — Fri, 29 Sep 2017 00:57:23 GMT

I am sorry I wasn't make the correct description about buyers opening "another case". There is only one case, when case opened I paid via the offical optiosn in open case on 20/09, then eBay message me saying the case is closed as refund is made. 3 days later 23/09 , buyer reopened the case saying refund not received.

Sorry about the confusion. But yes my bank transaction and paypal is showing 2 x $100 went out of my account on 20/09. Reason why buyer re-opened the case again remains a mystery. Also she does not speak to me at all after the case is opened. And looks like she is a seller here too..

Re: Partial refund was paid to seller twice (system errors)

fanki1983 — Fri, 29 Sep 2017 01:43:59 GMT

I was on the phone with Paypal last night and they sent a "courtesy email" to buyer asking her to repay the overpaid amount $100, I asked the Paypal what if the buyer ignored the message the person on the phone says "sorry not much Paypal can do here as the error seems was made by the eBay because I made the refund payment by going through the steps and prompts provided in the opened case.

The case is closed by ebay after review as I check the status this morning.

This is getting nowhere.. eBay is saying the double refund is Paypal fund and they are saying otherwise.. Nobody is accepting their responsbility. It's like nobody's fault. I get angry because I am the person doing the 'right' thing but it seems they don't care.

I know the money has gone in to buyers and she may probably transfer all to her bank account.. is it really that 'hard" for Paypal to revert the money from her?

Re: Partial refund was paid to seller twice (system errors)

fanki1983 — Fri, 29 Sep 2017 02:04:23 GMT

just attached screenshots..

transaction on my Paypal dated 20/09.

Re: Partial refund was paid to seller twice (system errors)

fanki1983 — Fri, 29 Sep 2017 02:05:30 GMT

screenshots 2

refund offer accepted by buyer for $100 on 20/09

Re: Partial refund was paid to seller twice (system errors)

fanki1983 — Fri, 29 Sep 2017 02:10:12 GMT

Re: Partial refund was paid to seller twice (system errors)

digital*ghost — Fri, 29 Sep 2017 02:16:51 GMT

@fanki1983 wrote:

This is getting nowhere.. eBay is saying the double refund is Paypal fund and they are saying otherwise.. Nobody is accepting their responsbility. It's like nobody's fault.

Unfortunately that is their default position - the "they did it, not me" defence.

Personally It seems like both PayPal and eBay are complicit in this situation, but eBay are more at fault for the simple reason that they never should have allowed the case to be reopened, even if the buyer's claim of not receiving the refund is true. And I say that because your responsibility is to provide the refund, it is eBay / PayPal's responsibility to facilitate that refund and get the funds back to the buyer, and I know for a fact that eBay can verify if a refund was processed (or approved) by you from the original payment / transaction. (I had a situation a couple of years ago where a buyer started hassling me for a refund, it was $4 so I just provided it, then they started hassling me about not receiving the refund and I provided them with all information I could, then told them who to contact about it. They left me a neg saying I never gave them a refund, which was removed because eBay could see that I did).

There are two things I would try at this point, first I would post publically on the eBay AU Facebook page, the primary complaints being that the case shouldn't have been reopened because a refund amount was agreed and then provided, which eBay should have on record, and the second that the additional $100 should not have been debited and you expect a full refund of that immediately. (This often gets better, faster and more appropriate results than contacting customer service by phone or email).

If they do not assist to your satisfaction, contact PayPal, and advise them that the second debit was taken erroneously and without authorisation, and that if the funds are not returned a dispute will be lodged with the Financial Ombudsman Service ( https://www.fos.org.au/ )

Re: Partial refund was paid to seller twice (system errors)

fanki1983 — Fri, 29 Sep 2017 04:40:40 GMT

thank you, digitalghost .. thanks for your advice.

I do find the customer service staff with both ebay and Paypal are not that pleasant, they really have no idea after knowing my issue, different people giving me different answers. And for such a big giant like eBay incorporating Paypal in order do business like this, they really have no idea each of their own 'boundaries" are and what are the things individually can do and can't do.

I will still sell items on ebay, but definitely not for thing that is expensive. It is such a waste of time.

Re: Partial refund was paid to seller twice (system errors)

fanki1983 — Fri, 29 Sep 2017 04:49:38 GMT

and is there anything I can lodge a report about the buyers behaviour (if eventually she does not repond and never returns the extra $100)? She is aware of what is going on (ebay, paypal and myself each of us sent her a message about returning the $100 fund)

It seems a lot of things to go through in other to claim back the $100, but I would go as far as I can because I didn't do anything wrong on my end.

Re: Partial refund was paid to seller twice (system errors)

dazzledayz — Fri, 29 Sep 2017 06:08:37 GMT

@fanki1983 wrote:
and is there anything I can lodge a report about the buyers behaviour (if eventually she does not repond and never returns the extra $100)? She is aware of what is going on (ebay, paypal and myself each of us sent her a message about returning the $100 fund)

It seems a lot of things to go through in other to claim back the $100, but I would go as far as I can because I didn't do anything wrong on my end.

You could suugest to the buyer that she is in breach of the law and you may have to consider turning this into a police matter if she does not comply with demands to return the overpaid amount.

I don't know what jurisdiction she is in but all States have similar laws in this area.

The police charge is usually something along the lines of "Theft by Finding" and covers goods or cash improperly obtained.

Perhaps you could contact ACORN (AFP) for further clarification on your customer's position in her relevant state jurisdiction.

Previous suggestions of getting in touch with the FOS are also good in the circumstances as PayPal have erred in allowing a duplicated refund and are responsible under law.

Re: Partial refund was paid to seller twice (system errors)

phorum_junkie* — Fri, 29 Sep 2017 08:50:33 GMT

Díd you even bother to read my earlier post? I gather not as you have not mentioned asking for a supervisor or the FSO.

Re: Partial refund was paid to seller twice (system errors)

fanki1983 — Sat, 30 Sep 2017 03:38:47 GMT

I have read your post, i haven't contacted Paypal as yet for the supervisior as this is long weekend and I am still hoping the buyer gets back to me on Monday. or so.. if I haven't heard back anything around Tues I will start the Ombudsman complaint.

I have already checked the website its not too hard to fill out the details..

In regards to the police claims, i have done some research in google, it seems the cops don't care about civil disputes with ebay sales and stuff. I need to find out more informaiton about that one.. i am not trying to scare her but if shes not doing the right thing i will do it!

Re: Partial refund was paid to seller twice (system errors)

imastawka — Sat, 30 Sep 2017 04:09:09 GMT

Local police wouldn't care, but you can report it to ACORN - that's for on-line crime

https://www.acorn.gov.au/

Re: Partial refund was paid to seller twice (system errors)

lyndal1838 — Sat, 30 Sep 2017 05:27:18 GMT

The local police do have their uses. It has been known for paypal to settle a claim once you can provide a Crime Report number. There have been several reports on here of members going this route.

Re: Partial refund was paid to seller twice (system errors)

justkidzbiz — Fri, 06 Oct 2017 16:21:12 GMT

How did the buyer "re-open" the case? Once a case is closed it cannot be re-opened, or so I thought, that's what eBay state in their convoluted policies.

Re: Partial refund was paid to seller twice (system errors)

fanki1983 — Sat, 07 Oct 2017 04:47:58 GMT

because the buyer claimed that she did not receive her money.. 3 days after I processed the refund..

Re: Partial refund was paid to seller twice (system errors)

fanki1983 — Sat, 07 Oct 2017 05:34:41 GMT

OKAY Ombudsman dispute lodged with me providing all the screenshots of the case as well as my Paypal account transcations

ACORN report is lodged against the buyer's dishonest behaviour - her details also provided when I do the reporting.

Very good lesson learnt - won't sell expensive items on eBay.