topic Re: Can PayPal Legally Withhold Money From Ebay Sales For 21 Days? in Selling

Can PayPal Legally Withhold Money From Ebay Sales For 21 Days?

buythis005a — Sun, 07 Dec 2014 23:28:46 GMT

Can PayPal legally place a 21 day hold on money that came from selling an item on ebay?

I sold an item for $200 ($194.90 after palpal had taken their fee) and as soon as the buyer paid PayPal placed it into a 21 day hold.

I have a 100% seller rating and this is the first time I have been denied access to my own money. I would have received a negitive feedback if I held off from posting the item until the funds had cleard.

Basically Paypal have found a way to give themselves an interest free line of credit at our expense.

Surely this can not be legal in Australia?

Re: Can PayPal Legally Withhold Money From Ebay Sales For 21 Days?

clarry100 — Sun, 07 Dec 2014 23:59:58 GMT

Not sure about the legalities of it but...

There have been a number of threads on here about this recently.

They seem to be doing it to selling accounts that are less than 90-days old.

Some people have met with success by phoning them to have the funds released. Others not so lucky.

A couple of us established sellers (myself included) opened a case of complaint with the FOS (Financial Ombudsman Service).

Within 48-hours of that they have released the funds and in at least one case have said the account would be exempted from any future funds holding.

So if a call to them is not successful then open a FOS case. And you might mention you are aware of the FOS.

This seems to get their attention and also a $1500 fine as I understand it.

Re: Can PayPal Legally Withhold Money From Ebay Sales For 21 Days?

phorum_junkie* — Mon, 08 Dec 2014 00:06:28 GMT

Of course it is legal, do you honestly think Paypal don't have a team of legal experts to go through their terms and conditions making sure they pass muster with the site policies are applied to.

It is actually some years ago since Paypal added the policy that they can hold funds up to 21 days however it was only used with dodgy sellers, they now apply it to all newish or seldom used accounts.

Remember Paypal offer buyer and seller protection and if an unproven seller can withdraw their funds quick enough then Paypal has to cover the loss and at best it will cost them time and money to recover the funds from the seller, at worst they have disappeared of the face of the earth never to be found.

If that happens often enough then Paypal will have no option but to raise their fees, I would rather have my funds held for 21 days than paying more on every transaction.

You won't survive long if you do not have enough funds to cover postage while waiting for funds to clear, in fact you will peobably end up at the wrong end of an item not received dispute and a pretty red dot.

Re: Can PayPal Legally Withhold Money From Ebay Sales For 21 Days?

collect247 — Mon, 08 Dec 2014 00:08:42 GMT

Don't forget that ebay FVFs will be $19.80 on a $200 sale and yes PayPal is holding money on accounts that haven't had a sale in a while and all newbies.

Re: Can PayPal Legally Withhold Money From Ebay Sales For 21 Days?

buythis005a — Mon, 08 Dec 2014 00:43:54 GMT

I have been emailing them for over a week and have received no response. So much for them getting back to you within 48hrs.

I summited a case with the Financial Ombudsman Service this morning.

I would like to know that they will stop this fraudulent practice with everybody and not just me but I think my eBay selling days are now over due too many fees and issues with both eBay and PayPal.

Re: Can PayPal Legally Withhold Money From Ebay Sales For 21 Days?

buythis005a — Mon, 08 Dec 2014 00:53:04 GMT

So if legal and everybody is happy with being denied access to their money, when will the Banks and Credit Card company's start adopting this policy? They would not be able to that's why.

I am a verified user with a 100% feedback score and last sold an item less than 3 months ago, so maybe you can see why I am annoyed. I do not like being charged $6 just for the 'privilege' of using PayPal then only to be denied access to my money.

Re: Can PayPal Legally Withhold Money From Ebay Sales For 21 Days?

clarry100 — Mon, 08 Dec 2014 01:23:24 GMT

I will be interested to see the outcome of the FOS complaint you have opened this morning.

The other sellers on here who have had success with the FOS method are very regular sellers who operate small business activities and who have multiple accounts selling lots of items sucessfully every day. It was when we opened a new selling account that they started to put the hold on funds from sales on the new accounts, despite having a solid & established track record on other ebay selling accounts linked into the very same paypal account.

In your case it looks as tho you are an occasional seller even tho you may have had the account active for more than the notional 90-day period. So perhaps this will make a difference, perhaps not.

Re: Can PayPal Legally Withhold Money From Ebay Sales For 21 Days?

hmmar-spier — Mon, 08 Dec 2014 02:43:12 GMT

Yes imaging your employer crediting your wages to your bank account and the banks withholding them for 21 days. Riots would ensue.

Re: Can PayPal Legally Withhold Money From Ebay Sales For 21 Days?

fred_foofighter — Mon, 08 Dec 2014 03:05:45 GMT

Can you please point to any cases were this has been tested in court. Or is it just another case of big business bullying its customers into believing they have no other opinion other than comply. While you may be happy to have your money held for 21 days some of us aren't, and actually understand what is meant by cashflow because you clearly have no idea.

Re: Can PayPal Legally Withhold Money From Ebay Sales For 21 Days?

kizacks — Mon, 08 Dec 2014 03:19:51 GMT

I guess that's the idea behind corporate greed, with their room of lawyers, to continue to push the boundaries, and even in some cases cross it (minimise collateral damage and public outcry the best they can). To suggest because a company is armed with lawyers, that they would never cross the boundary is quite amusing.There has already been records of Ebay/Paypal crossing the boundaries, but the public can only fight so long. It takes a lot of people/media/resources to conjure up enough noise that the regulatory bodies will actually stand up and take notice.

Re: Can PayPal Legally Withhold Money From Ebay Sales For 21 Days?

fred_foofighter — Mon, 08 Dec 2014 06:28:50 GMT

phorum_junkie stated "Of course it is legal"

I suggest you read

Craig Comb, et al. v. PayPal, Inc.. a case involving Paypal freezing deposited funds for up to 180 days. The court ruled against PayPal, stating that "the User Agreement and arbitration clause are substantively unconscionable under California law."

Then there was the case for alleged violations of the "Electronic Funds Transfer Act" . The settlement for that one in which those infallible lawyers got it wrong was that PayPal had to change its business practices, as well as make a US$9.25 million payment to members of the class action.

Re: Can PayPal Legally Withhold Money From Ebay Sales For 21 Days?

adam031055 — Mon, 08 Dec 2014 07:49:41 GMT

It appears that this is yet another EBay/PayPal policy designed to rid themselves of casual sellers. Remember a few years ago they were begging people to go through their garages and spare rooms and list on EBay to make some extra cash ? Not any more. We are not wanted so they are trying to make things as difficult for small sellers as possible. I was told I was considered a "new seller" and when I mentioned I had 100% feedback and had been with them as a casual seller for years it turns out the new policy looks at the total number of sales you have made and a couple of other criteria and then decide to classify you as a new seller so they can make life difficult for you to get your money (despite the hefty fees they charge). And, no doubt, make money on the withheld funds on the short term money markets.

I had my payment held up also - $ 20 lousy item and my payment won't be released until 24 December. Well, I have lodged a complaint with the Financial Services Ombudsman so hopefully that will cause EBay and Paypal some little pain. You have to complain about Paypal as there is no choice for EBay although on the surface of it this is a new EBay policy. Anyway they own Paypal and it is Paypal that is holding up my money so I dont care who gets the grief. I suggest anyone else who finds their way here and reads these comments does the same and lets try to get this ridiculous policy overturned.

I just wish someone like AliBaba would compete with these idiots worldwide and take all their business. Seems like EBay is just deliberately trying to run itself into the ground.

Re: Can PayPal Legally Withhold Money From Ebay Sales For 21 Days?

k9tardus — Mon, 08 Dec 2014 08:27:34 GMT

I've just been looking at the women's clothing listings and there seems to be quite a few sellers that have in their selling terms that any item paid for by Paypal will NOT be posted until the funds are released in 21 days.....bank transfer is more acceptable. As a buyer, I can understand this, paying postage out of your own pocket must be hard, but for the buyer - all the protection is null and void.

Sorry, but I hit backspace on every one.

Re: Can PayPal Legally Withhold Money From Ebay Sales For 21 Days?

lyndal1838 — Mon, 08 Dec 2014 08:38:22 GMT

@fred_foofighter wrote:
phorum_junkie stated "Of course it is legal"
I suggest you read
Craig Comb, et al. v. PayPal, Inc.. a case involving Paypal freezing deposited funds for up to 180 days. The court ruled against PayPal, stating that "the User Agreement and arbitration clause are substantively unconscionable under California law."

Then there was the case for alleged violations of the "Electronic Funds Transfer Act" . The settlement for that one in which those infallible lawyers got it wrong was that PayPal had to change its business practices, as well as make a US$9.25 million payment to members of the class action.

What has California law got to do with Australia...and 180 days is just a tad more than 21 days.

Re: Can PayPal Legally Withhold Money From Ebay Sales For 21 Days?

fred_foofighter — Mon, 08 Dec 2014 10:09:28 GMT

It has absolutely nothing to do with Australia, but it does show that the paypal lawyers aren't infallible as Phorum Junkie was claiming.

Re: Can PayPal Legally Withhold Money From Ebay Sales For 21 Days?

c_mount — Mon, 08 Dec 2014 11:52:57 GMT

Are you the Paypal apologetic here or do you like being a doogooder? Sorry but most of us here have had it with the BS!

Re: Can PayPal Legally Withhold Money From Ebay Sales For 21 Days?

c_mount — Mon, 08 Dec 2014 11:54:48 GMT

phorum_junkie is based OS mate.

Re: Can PayPal Legally Withhold Money From Ebay Sales For 21 Days?

harley_babes_hoard — Mon, 08 Dec 2014 12:08:30 GMT

I believe PJ is here for 6 months of the year also.

Re: Can PayPal Legally Withhold Money From Ebay Sales For 21 Days?

lyndal1838 — Mon, 08 Dec 2014 13:02:22 GMT

@c_mount wrote:
phorum_junkie is based OS mate.

PJ is currently in Australia and is selling on at least 2 different IDs.

And just for the record, like me, she has had a paypal account since before it was called paypal and acquired by ebay.

I have never lost money because of paypal because I learned the rules before I started using paypal and have kept up to date with the changes.

Do I think this latest change is good.....no, definitely not. There are also reports of non ebay funds being held and I am waiting to see if it involves private funds transfers that do not involve selling anything.

If you feel the money is being withheld wrongly, just go to the Ombudsman. There seems to be a fair amount of success with getting the funds released.

Re: Can PayPal Legally Withhold Money From Ebay Sales For 21 Days?

ourphonecase — Mon, 08 Dec 2014 13:07:44 GMT

Apple and Google pays out after 2 months of selling an app in the app store.

Google Ads, Admob and RevMob pay out after 90 days I making revnue from Ads.

There was another one I was with ages ago but forgot the name of it and it was paying out after 180 days.

These big companies have been doing it since the start so PayPal holding for 21 days is like nothing than the companies above.