topic Re: Is ebay's BLOCK BIDDER option illegal discrimination? in Selling

Is ebay's BLOCK BIDDER option illegal discrimination?

moviemem — Wed, 15 Nov 2017 23:58:26 GMT

The SS Marriage plebiscite has highlighted the fact that it can be illegal for businesses to refuse to sell porducts to customers based on various criteria.

ebay allows sellers to block up to 5000 users and there is no need to provide a reason.

Curious as to whether that might be illegal.

Re: Is ebay's BLOCK BIDDER option illegal discrimination?

lyndal1838 — Thu, 16 Nov 2017 00:01:35 GMT

I doubt it. Most retail businesses reserve the right to refuse service to anyone they do not want to deal with...they do not have to give a reason. Ebay is the same.

Re: Is ebay's BLOCK BIDDER option illegal discrimination?

moviemem — Thu, 16 Nov 2017 00:19:48 GMT

Well, it looks like the government will need to pass new laws to allow marriage celebrants to refuse service based on religious beliefs so you cant just arbitrarily refuse to sell to someone.

Re: Is ebay's BLOCK BIDDER option illegal discrimination?

lyndal1838 — Thu, 16 Nov 2017 00:25:28 GMT

Refusing to marry someone on religious grounds is a far cry from refusing retail service to anyone.

It has been legal for as long as I can remember...over 60 years now.

Re: Is ebay's BLOCK BIDDER option illegal discrimination?

moviemem — Thu, 16 Nov 2017 00:44:56 GMT

They are also talking about sellers refusing to sell other products purely based on religious beliefs. That can be deemed as illegal.

Re: Is ebay's BLOCK BIDDER option illegal discrimination?

*tippy*toes* — Thu, 16 Nov 2017 01:07:52 GMT

Why are people assuming that this change in law is going to cause the implosion of the world? Retailers have always been able to refuse to serve people. Some even have signs in their shops saying as much. Celebrants have always been able to refuse to marry someone. My sister contacted 3 before one agreed. The other 2 weren't interested in driving out into the middle of her cow paddock where they wanted the ceremony. Their choice.

No one has to give a reason why they are refusing service. My shop, my rules. I don't care who you think you are, I'm not serving you. Plain and simple as that. If the person then wants to read something into it, whereby they felt discriminated against, they have to prove it. Given most shops these days have CCTV, it's going to be much harder to prove it.

Someone screaming discrimination because someone refused to serve them because they were rude, on their phone, whatever, would be like Mr Tippy screaming discrimination because he was refused a job as a life guard (if he gets in water he will drown, absolutely no avoiding it).

People are taking this discrimination thing too far. I even have people at work saying I am racist and discriminating against my Africa colleague by saying the word black in front of her. Could be in reference to a black car or a black dress.

As for eBay, I also have a right to refuse to sell to people if I like. If someone starts playing the disability card, blocked. They are usually the biggest trouble makers. If someone leaves a lot of bad feedback and has a history of most items not arriving, I will block them too. I can refuse to sell to whoever I like. I don't give a toss who is on the other end of the keyboard. I don't care whether you are gay, disabled, black, or have no arms and no legs. If I don't want to sell to you, I won't.

Of course if a shop assistant screamed "I'm not selling to you because you are a retard in a wheelchair and your appearance disgusts me", that's probably a bit different, but to just say no, it's their choice.

Re: Is ebay's BLOCK BIDDER option illegal discrimination?

moviemem — Thu, 16 Nov 2017 01:25:30 GMT

I think sellers should be able to block some bidders but I am simply curious as to whether it is legal or not.

Re: Is ebay's BLOCK BIDDER option illegal discrimination?

lyndal1838 — Thu, 16 Nov 2017 01:31:27 GMT

@moviemem wrote:
They are also talking about sellers refusing to sell other products purely based on religious beliefs. That can be deemed as illegal.

Who is "they"? Until it actually happens how is it illegal? Just talking about it does not make it illegal.

Take it from me, there are enough members of the Gay community who can provide all the services that "they" are talking about.

Just among the gay people I know there is a makeup artist, 2 professional cake makers, 2 florists/floral artists and goodness knows how many photographers, as well as several event organisers.

I am sure the gay community will be well able to organise all the weddings that they want without having to resort to dealing with businesses that do not want to give them service.

I have a friend (not gay) who has done cake decorating for many years. During a recent discussion she made the comment that she would have no reason to even know who the cake was for unless the person doing the ordering told her of any special requirements.

Most clients knew what sort of cake they wanted, such and a fruit cake or a mud cake, and most chose the decorations from a very large portfolio of photos she had.

Re: Is ebay's BLOCK BIDDER option illegal discrimination?

lyndal1838 — Thu, 16 Nov 2017 01:35:12 GMT

@moviemem wrote:
I think sellers should be able to block some bidders but I am simply curious as to whether it is legal or not.

It has been ebay policy for so long that if it were illegal someone would have been screaming long before now.

There are enough members who make it their business to challenge every policy that ebay implements....they would not have let this go under the radar if it was illegal.

Re: Is ebay's BLOCK BIDDER option illegal discrimination?

moviemem — Thu, 16 Nov 2017 01:36:24 GMT

"They" are our politiciians who are currently debating this is the Senate.

Re: Is ebay's BLOCK BIDDER option illegal discrimination?

lyndal1838 — Thu, 16 Nov 2017 01:38:47 GMT

So the politicians are only speaking hypothetically....no-one has yet been discriminated against.

Re: Is ebay's BLOCK BIDDER option illegal discrimination?

moviemem — Thu, 16 Nov 2017 01:39:04 GMT

@lyndal1838 wrote:
@moviemem wrote:
I think sellers should be able to block some bidders but I am simply curious as to whether it is legal or not.
It has been ebay policy for so long that if it were illegal someone would have been screaming long before now.
There are enough members who make it their business to challenge every policy that ebay implements....they would not have let this go under the radar if it was illegal.

Yes, that seems logical but if it is OK then why would there be so much fuss about it in the media at the moment?

Re: Is ebay's BLOCK BIDDER option illegal discrimination?

lyndal1838 — Thu, 16 Nov 2017 01:45:04 GMT

I have not seen any hype in the media about the ebay blocked bidders list....and that is what you asked about.

What is being discussed in the media is any potential discrimination that may arise in relation to the changing of the Marriage Law.

They are two very different things.

Re: Is ebay's BLOCK BIDDER option illegal discrimination?

moviemem — Thu, 16 Nov 2017 01:52:40 GMT

@lyndal1838 wrote:
I have not seen any hype in the media about the ebay blocked bidders list....and that is what you asked about.

What is being discussed in the media is any potential discrimination that may arise in relation to the changing of the Marriage Law.

They are two very different things.

They are actually not so different. There are many reasons why some sellers block bidders. Some of those reasons could well be discriminatory - ie someone who refuses to sell to a person with a particular ethnic background. For all we know, some sellers may well be blocking bidders on that basis.

Re: Is ebay's BLOCK BIDDER option illegal discrimination?

*tippy*toes* — Thu, 16 Nov 2017 01:53:09 GMT

@moviemem wrote:
@lyndal1838 wrote:
@moviemem wrote:
I think sellers should be able to block some bidders but I am simply curious as to whether it is legal or not.
It has been ebay policy for so long that if it were illegal someone would have been screaming long before now.
There are enough members who make it their business to challenge every policy that ebay implements....they would not have let this go under the radar if it was illegal.
Yes, that seems logical but if it is OK then why would there be so much fuss about it in the media at the moment?

Because the chronically outraged now have something else to be outraged about.

As for the legalities of blocking buyers on eBay, it's like this. You are a username on a screen. I have no idea whether you are gay, straight or otherwise. I have no idea where you were born, or what the colour skin you have, or what colour hair or eyes you have. I have no idea what you do for a living, or how much you earn per year. I have no idea if you have children and whether any of them are autistic. I have no idea what food you like or what restaurants you eat at. I have no idea whether you live near the beach or on a mountain.

If you are a gay black man with green hair, born in Uganda with an autistic child, who works as a stripper, who earns $5,000 a week, who lives on a mountain and whose favourite food is eggs on toast, prove to anyone that's why I have refused to sell to you. My refusal to sell to you could be because I find the word "movie" offensive.

As sellers have no idea who has bought from them apart from a username on a screen, no one anywhere can prove any type of discrimination. There is not a lawyer in the world who would take that to court.

Re: Is ebay's BLOCK BIDDER option illegal discrimination?

k1ooo-slr-sales — Thu, 16 Nov 2017 02:01:48 GMT

@moviemem wrote:
Well, it looks like the government will need to pass new laws to allow marriage celebrants to refuse service based on religious beliefs so you cant just arbitrarily refuse to sell to someone.

this is just so ridiculous that it doesn’t warrant a response.

It is a wonder that eBay blocked bidder list wasn’t a part of the “No” advertising. I’m sure Pansy Lai is kicking herself for not thinking of including it in the ads. I’m sure that had they done so the “Yes” campaign would have failed dismally. Still two weeks left in November, plenty of time for you-know-what

Re: Is ebay's BLOCK BIDDER option illegal discrimination?

moviemem — Thu, 16 Nov 2017 01:58:24 GMT

@*tippy*toes* wrote:
@moviemem wrote:
@lyndal1838 wrote:
@moviemem wrote:
I think sellers should be able to block some bidders but I am simply curious as to whether it is legal or not.
It has been ebay policy for so long that if it were illegal someone would have been screaming long before now.
There are enough members who make it their business to challenge every policy that ebay implements....they would not have let this go under the radar if it was illegal.
Yes, that seems logical but if it is OK then why would there be so much fuss about it in the media at the moment?
Because the chronically outraged now have something else to be outraged about.

As for the legalities of blocking buyers on eBay, it's like this. You are a username on a screen. I have no idea whether you are gay, straight or otherwise. I have no idea where you were born, or what the colour skin you have, or what colour hair or eyes you have. I have no idea what you do for a living, or how much you earn per year. I have no idea if you have children and whether any of them are autistic. I have no idea what food you like or what restaurants you eat at. I have no idea whether you live near the beach or on a mountain.

If you are a gay black man with green hair, born in Uganda with an autistic child, who works as a stripper, who earns $5,000 a week, who lives on a mountain and whose favourite food is eggs on toast, prove to anyone that's why I have refused to sell to you. My refusal to sell to you could be because I find the word "movie" offensive.

As sellers have no idea who has bought from them apart from a username on a screen, no one anywhere can prove any type of discrimination. There is not a lawyer in the world who would take that to court.

I think generally sellers block bidders after they have had a previous transaction with them. So it is quite possible that they could block them puerly based on discrimination.

Re: Is ebay's BLOCK BIDDER option illegal discrimination?

moviemem — Thu, 16 Nov 2017 02:01:45 GMT

@k1ooo-slr-sales wrote:
@moviemem wrote:
Well, it looks like the government will need to pass new laws to allow marriage celebrants to refuse service based on religious beliefs so you cant just arbitrarily refuse to sell to someone.
this is just so ridiculous that it doesn’t warrant a response.

It is a wonder that eBay blocked bidder list wasn’t a part of the “No” advertising. I’m sure Pansy Lai is kicking herself for not thinking of including it in the ads. I’m sure that had they done so the “Yes” campaign would have failed dismally.

It may sound ridiculous but that is what they are currently debating in the Senate.

Re: Is ebay's BLOCK BIDDER option illegal discrimination?

k1ooo-slr-sales — Thu, 16 Nov 2017 02:08:12 GMT

@moviemem wrote:
@k1ooo-slr-sales wrote:
@moviemem wrote:
Well, it looks like the government will need to pass new laws to allow marriage celebrants to refuse service based on religious beliefs so you cant just arbitrarily refuse to sell to someone.
this is just so ridiculous that it doesn’t warrant a response.

It is a wonder that eBay blocked bidder list wasn’t a part of the “No” advertising. I’m sure Pansy Lai is kicking herself for not thinking of including it in the ads. I’m sure that had they done so the “Yes” campaign would have failed dismally.
It may sound ridiculous but that is what they are currently debating in the Senate.

they are not debating arbitrarily refusing to sell to someone, they are debating refusing to sell based on sexual orientation. There is a vast difference between the two.

the scaremongering continues.

Re: Is ebay's BLOCK BIDDER option illegal discrimination?

*tippy*toes* — Thu, 16 Nov 2017 02:13:22 GMT

I think you're clutching at straws now. Majority of sellers would only block a previous buyer because they had bad dealings. I have blocked buyers before they have bought because I have looked at their feedback left for others and seeing how atrocious it was, didn't want them buying off me.

You can't always tell much about a buyer by their name anyway. A kid I went to school with was named Bruce Harvey. He was Chinese. Another girl was named Jing Lee. She was 4th generation white Australian. Her father worked with someone named Jing and liked the name. As for knowing their sexual preferences, good luck with that one.

Plus, even if you did block someone because you didn't like Asians and Jing Lee sounded like she could have been Asian, unless you told her that's why you blocked her, how is she ever going to know? How is she ever going to prove that was the reason she was blocked?

I can appreciate that you voted no. That was your choice. Most people aren't going to change their practices. Today is only the day after yesterday. Nothing has changed because it was revealed that majority voted yes. The sun rose this morning. It will set tonight. My practicing Catholic gay cousin, who is a teacher in an all boys high school (oh the horror!!!) is still going to go to work today. The kids and parents are still going to worship the ground he walks on. He is still going to go to the same shops to buy his groceries and the same servo to buy his fuel.

The only difference today is, if he chooses to marry is partner of 20 years, he can. Granted, they don't want to get married, but they now have that choice if they do decide to do so. That has nothing to do with what and when he buys off eBay, which he does quite often. If I told you his name, you would never pick him as being gay, so you wouldn't be able to block him on those grounds.....because you wouldn't know.