topic Re: Is proof of damage required? in Selling

Is proof of damage required?

melissad2825 — Tue, 05 Dec 2017 22:45:07 GMT

Hi there

Really appreciate some advice on this one. A buyer emailed me and asked for a full refund because the item I sent was broken in transit. I responded with 'no worries, apologies, please send me a photo of the damaged item and I will supply a full refund'.

Buyer refuses to supply photo, sends another longer email saying doesn't have time for messing around with photos and has the item (smashed to pieces) in his drawer.

I again ask for a photo and offer to fully refund him upon receipt of photo.

Buyer opens a return request and says item was wrapped in "flimsy" bubble wrap and "thin padded envelope". Again, no photo.

Does the buyer have to prove the item is broken or will eBay just refund them on the basis of their word? I want to do the right thing but there's something really off about this guy...aggressive and uncooperative.

Thanks

Re: Is proof of damage required?

collect247 — Tue, 05 Dec 2017 23:26:13 GMT

In the past with me, ebay just refunded the buyers on their lying words.

I'm so peed off with your situation because this buyer is refusing to send photos so to me that just smells of BS.

If the item was of value then stick to your guns and fight it until there is proof of the damage.

But these days ebay are a bunch of galahs and immediately side with a buyer so you just need to weigh up the situation and if it's worth fighting for then fight it out.

Perhaps ask the buyer to send the item back and once you have inspected it then make your decision.

And why would the buyer have it sitting in their draw broken?

Re: Is proof of damage required?

melissad2825 — Tue, 05 Dec 2017 23:44:43 GMT

Thanks for your reply. Fortunately it's not an expensive item.

I received another aggressive email from him this morning saying I need to pay him or eBay will resolve it and he will leave me negative feedback. Still no photo.

In his return request, he says I can pay to have it picked up from his address. He's not offering to return it himself.

I think he's either lying or is just some kind of psychopath/troll. I wonder how often he's done this to people.

Re: Is proof of damage required?

lyndal1838 — Tue, 05 Dec 2017 23:51:43 GMT

Check his feedback left for others.....you may find out that he makes a habit of getting refunds.

I would be inclined to let him open a dispute.....you are entitled to ask for a photo of the damage before issuing a refund.

Make sure you keep the email where he threatens negative feedback if you do not refund....that is a no-no.

Re: Is proof of damage required?

lizzys-allsorts — Wed, 06 Dec 2017 00:18:09 GMT

I received another aggressive email from him this morning saying I need to pay him or eBay will resolve it and he will leave me negative feedback. Still no photo.

Buyer is using feedback extortion and is a no no with ebay. If it was me, personally I would do as lyndal suggested. I would fight this as a matter of principle, Obviously your buyer wants a freebie & the more these freeloaders get away with it, they'll never stop.....

Re: Is proof of damage required?

melissad2825 — Wed, 06 Dec 2017 00:46:17 GMT

Thank you. I checked the feedback he's left and its mostly just 'Thanks', which could certainly be for refunds.

I will fight it and let the forum know what the outcome is.

Re: Is proof of damage required?

*sparklz* — Wed, 06 Dec 2017 00:48:55 GMT

Phone ebay now and tell them to read the messages of you telling them to send photos of the smashed item and a refund would then be given and his replies of refusal to do so.

And as stated threats of neg feedback is a breach of ebay policy and will be removed if a neg is left so make sure the rep reads that as well.

Tell the rep you do not want them to refund till he can prove his claim

Record the name date and time of the person you speak with and what they say so if anything different to what they said happens call them back and tell them you want to speak with a supervisor.

If you can fight all the way as you have no way of knowing how often this stunt is pulled on other sellers.

Re: Is proof of damage required?

Anonymous — Wed, 06 Dec 2017 00:58:40 GMT

Totally agree with what the others have said

Sounds like this one is a Freebay shopper to me

Has time to send all the messages, they have time to take a photo. IMHO

Re: Is proof of damage required?

digital*ghost — Wed, 06 Dec 2017 01:10:44 GMT

Don't let the buyer escalate the case, if you can help it.

Under the circumstances, it may sound counter intuitive, but if you don't get anywhere with eBay I'd personally approve the request because that puts the ball back in their court and requires them to return the item before a refund is granted.

If they are angling for a free item, they won't return it, but you have given the buyer the avenue to get a resolution.

There are a couple of ways this could backfire, so while I would take that approach to both call their bluff and avoid escatlation, refund without proof and a defect, the advice comes with that caution.

Re: Is proof of damage required?

melissad2825 — Wed, 06 Dec 2017 01:20:58 GMT

Thanks for this advice. I called eBay and they said they will not refund him unless they receive proof that the item is broken. It was a call centre in India and bad reception but hopefully will work. They also said, under the circumstances, they will remove any negative feedback he posts. Sounds good so far!

Re: Is proof of damage required?

melissad2825 — Mon, 11 Dec 2017 23:58:09 GMT

THE RESULT

My situation with this buyer has now been resolved. Yes, eBay refunded him but they paid the refund, not me.

Apparently they contacted the buyer and he'd 'tried 6 times' to upload a photo of the damage but it wasn't working for him. So no proof of damage was received. This despite the fact that he is a Tech Support Officer at a university (where I sent the item, I googled him).

What a liar! I'm meant to be happy that I didn't lose any money. It could have been worse. But there's still a prolific ebay buyer out there (over 1,500 reviews) who is a liar and a thief.

Thanks again for all your advice.

Re: Is proof of damage required?

lyndal1838 — Tue, 12 Dec 2017 05:51:12 GMT

That is pretty unfair to label a buyer a liar and a thief because they were not able to upload a photo.

If you have read the boards recently you would know that there have been problems with uploading photos and it does not matter how experienced the buyer is....if an ebay function is not working it is not working.

These boards serve more than one purpose....as well as sellers being made aware of bad buyers we buyers can see what sellers to avoid also.

Re: Is proof of damage required?

melbourneclearance — Tue, 12 Dec 2017 06:39:33 GMT

Both buyer and seller can see each other's email address from Paypal. If there is a technical difficulty uploading photos just send them directly to the other party's email address. Then update the ebay case with something like "Due to ebay's uploading bug, I have sent you photo-proofs directly to your email address" or something to that effect.

Re: Is proof of damage required?

springyzone — Tue, 12 Dec 2017 07:27:33 GMT

I'm glad you didn't have to pay out of your own pocket.

I do think the man was laying it on a bit thick to ebay and probably fibbing about not being able to upload pictures at least because of something you said earlier. (below in red)

So, he wasn't even trying to send a photo, he just thought he should be taken at his word.

Maybe the item really was broken & he was just lazy but I have always had to provide photo evidence on other buying sites before being refunded.

Buyer refuses to supply photo, sends another longer email saying doesn't have time for messing around with photos and has the item (smashed to pieces) in his drawer.

Re: Is proof of damage required?

melissad2825 — Wed, 13 Dec 2017 01:26:29 GMT

Here was his second response to my request for a photo after he said he didn;t have time for it:

"We have a legal contract - You provide the goods as listed & I pay for the item + postage. I have fulfilled my part of the contract - there is no obligation on me to do anything else. As I see it, one of your main obligations is to show due diligence in packing a fragile porcelain item sufficiently well to prevent breakage - this was not done - it should have been in a box. If you don't want to issue the refund OK - we will let eBay sort it out & then I will post my feedback."

Needless to say, the item was well packaged and 2 other buyers around the same time included specific positive feedback about my packaging in their feedback. I do not accuse people of dishonesty lightly but, of course, you're welcome to draw your own conclusion about him.

Re: Is proof of damage required?

melbourneclearance — Wed, 13 Dec 2017 02:12:14 GMT

A buyer must always produce proof when claiming damage. It is the onus of the person claiming something to prove it.

I had a case where the buyer said she did not have a camera. In these days and age, everything has an in-built camera. So I told her to escalate the case to ebay as my policy requires photo-proof. She did not want to escalate and kept sending me messages several times a day until the very last day before an escalation would have been disallowed. Then she escalated the case. ebay sent her a digital postage barcode and told her to return the item. She did not, a week or two later (10 days?) ebay returned my money.

I don't know about other sellers, but I personally hold tough on dubious buyers and take the red. A huge majority of buyers are honest and genuine, but there will always be some who are a little shady.

Re: Is proof of damage required?

brerrabbit585 — Wed, 13 Dec 2017 04:42:54 GMT

@melbourneclearance wrote:
A buyer must always produce proof when claiming damage. It is the onus of the person claiming something to prove it.

I had a case where the buyer said she did not have a camera. In these days and age, everything has an in-built camera.

Some of us are dinosaurs and don't own the "everything" that has an in-built camera. I'm not the only one I know who doesn't even have a mobile phone. I don't even have a cordless phone!

Re: Is proof of damage required?

janeababe — Wed, 13 Dec 2017 07:37:26 GMT

@melissad2825 wrote:
Here was his second response to my request for a photo after he said he didn;t have time for it:

"We have a legal contract - You provide the goods as listed & I pay for the item + postage. I have fulfilled my part of the contract - there is no obligation on me to do anything else. As I see it, one of your main obligations is to show due diligence in packing a fragile porcelain item sufficiently well to prevent breakage - this was not done - it should have been in a box. If you don't want to issue the refund OK - we will let eBay sort it out & then I will post my feedback."

Needless to say, the item was well packaged and 2 other buyers around the same time included specific positive feedback about my packaging in their feedback. I do not accuse people of dishonesty lightly but, of course, you're welcome to draw your own conclusion about him.

Just a side track here: (i like the side track... its sooooooo....... diversional )

Why didn't you post a ceramic item in a box?

I'm wondering if your buyer was telling the truth, and perhaps so annoyed at the lack of safe packaging that he decided to not give you the satisfaction of a photograph. (just a thought)

TBH, I'd be a bit peeved if I order a fragile item and it arrived wrapped in bubble wrap and placed in a satchel/envelope/padded bag instead of a good solid well fitting box.

Anyway, he's happy with his refund, you didnt have to pay it, so its a win for you too. I know you are not happy, and you had previous items arrive safely, but that doesnt mean its a safe method of packaging.
JMO

cheers

xxj

Re: Is proof of damage required?

melissad2825 — Wed, 13 Dec 2017 08:36:37 GMT

All I can say in response to you is that I thought about what I thought would be the best packaging and I didn't think it was a box. There are certainly things I will learn from this encounter. It's a judgement call. (I love diversional questions.)

BTW, it wasn't the fragile porcelain object he describes; much more robust.

Re: Is proof of damage required?

*tippy*toes* — Wed, 13 Dec 2017 10:20:46 GMT

Why is he saying it's a fragile porcelain item if it's not? I'm sure he knows what he bought. I have had porcelain plates wrapped in a single layer of newspaper, then put neatly into a satchel.......with no other packaging. Of course they arrived smashed. Not only was it a shame that these hard to get plates were smashed, it was outright dangerous for the postal workers having to handle it. I'm surprised it was delivered at all.

The seller refunded without a dispute, but she couldn't see what was wrong with the way they were sent. Unless it's something solid like a book or a car engine, put it in a box.

Edit: It was pottery. Still fragile and should have been in a box. If you posted it in anything less, then you got off lightly not having to refund. I would have been pretty pished if that pottery box had been posted in a satchel. You have a lot to learn as a seller if you plan on selling breakables.