topic Re: Brand NEW buyers in Selling

Brand NEW buyers

clubesquire — Fri, 09 Feb 2018 00:42:58 GMT

Well, we were warned when we started, 'Don't sell to new buyers', but we thought that was unfair as everyone has to start somewhere.

We've only had a handful, but each one has been problematic. I notice they appear young too.

One at the moment is a classic. 'Burnouts' in new pipes? Anyone who knows just a little about pipes knows this can happen in only one way and that is by allowing the pipe to become way too hot, exceedingly hand burning hot, during the break in process. Or, they have otherwise subscribed to the urban myth of breaking in a new pipe by hanging it, lighted, outside the window of a car travelling at say 30 miles per hour. That is one sure fire (no pun intended) way of scorching and blackening the heel of a new pipe, and that is exactly what has happened in this case. The pics are very clear. And, it's over such a large area - the complete heel of the pipe.

This is what we are dealing with, although we have not put this to the buyer, or otherwise suggested any fault on their part. Pointless in the beginning because it straight away creates confrontation. It has prompted me though, to be explicit with breaking in instructions with future dispatches. Things get so wordy though, in trying to cover 'all the bases.'

Anyway, we've offered one of two others, more expensive, that we have of the same brand, but not the same model, as replacements. No extra cost to the buyer. They are both substantially more attractive, at least to me. The buyer refused. He wants the same. I've explained that being a vintage, but still new pipe, I can't replace it. I reiterated my offer of one of the two more expensive pipes and the alternative of a full refund. Answer, 'I want what I bought replaced.' I've not responded as yet. Giorgy and Barry both tell me I'm being way too soft and to hit him between the eyes with what's he's done, but what's that going to prove?

I can see some 'red' coming in from this buyer, even though we are 'bending over for Rover.'

I really hate it, but I think after this we're going to become another one of 'those sellers' who won't sell to newbies.

Suggestions appreciated.

Melina (fretting again)

Re: Brand NEW buyers

davidc4430 — Fri, 09 Feb 2018 00:52:13 GMT

i cant see how the buyer can do anything, the item was delivered in the condition it was advertised. what he does with it after that is not the sellers fault.

could i buy a new coat then burn a hole in it with an iron and claim it was not as described?

who knows what your buyer did, but he got a new pipe, thats what he ordered

Re: Brand NEW buyers

*sparklz* — Fri, 09 Feb 2018 01:00:03 GMT

Agree with what was said.

Tell the buyer you are sorry but the offers are now withdrawn as you refused them and the item was sent in the hope you would know how to use it without causing the damage done by misuse.

You need to toughen up with some of these buyers as they try it on to get stuff for nothing.

Change your settings to no newbies under 5 feedback or not verified.

You are selling on ebay to try and make some profit and by giving away stuff you are only trying to stop neg feedbacks and often they will leave it anyway.

Re: Brand NEW buyers

kopenhagen5 — Fri, 09 Feb 2018 01:06:00 GMT

If not taking the hardline as suggested then perhaps,

Along the lines of -

Dear buyer,

I have contacted our manager and he has confirmed that this pipe was a one only and is not available any longer.

It simply doesn't exist anywhere.

He also confirmed that the reason it has received 'burnouts' can only be caused by allowing it to become too hot during the break-in period. Even though our return policy doesn't cover this type of damage, we are prepared to either refund or offer the other replacement. Kindly let us know what you wish us to do.

Put the buyer on your blocked list and probably set blocks for less then 5 feedback or there abouts.

But there are always going to be the ones that think they can just do it without reading the instructions.

They come on the boards here all the time blaming eBay, blaming sellers or buyers when it's their own fault.

AND they never come back to apologize. Pfffft.

(Sounds like they are not going to be pleased either way so I think you are getting a neg anyway, maybe as sparklz suggested)

Re: Brand NEW buyers

springyzone — Fri, 09 Feb 2018 01:08:00 GMT

wrote:
Well, we were warned when we started, 'Don't sell to new buyers', but we thought that was unfair as everyone has to start somewhere.

We've only had a handful, but each one has been problematic. I notice they appear young too.

One at the moment is a classic. 'Burnouts' in new pipes? Anyone who knows just a little about pipes knows this can happen in only one way and that is by allowing the pipe to become way too hot, exceedingly hand burning hot, during the break in process. Or, they have otherwise subscribed to the urban myth of breaking in a new pipe by hanging it, lighted, outside the window of a car travelling at say 30 miles per hour. That is one sure fire (no pun intended) way of scorching and blackening the heel of a new pipe, and that is exactly what has happened in this case. The pics are very clear. And, it's over such a large area - the complete heel of the pipe.

This is what we are dealing with, although we have not put this to the buyer, or otherwise suggested any fault on their part. Pointless in the beginning because it straight away creates confrontation. It has prompted me though, to be explicit with breaking in instructions with future dispatches. Things get so wordy though, in trying to cover 'all the bases.'

Anyway, we've offered one of two others, more expensive, that we have of the same brand, but not the same model, as replacements. No extra cost to the buyer. They are both substantially more attractive, at least to me. The buyer refused. He wants the same. I've explained that being a vintage, but still new pipe, I can't replace it. I reiterated my offer of one of the two more expensive pipes and the alternative of a full refund. Answer, 'I want what I bought replaced.' I've not responded as yet. Giorgy and Barry both tell me I'm being way too soft and to hit him between the eyes with what's he's done, but what's that going to prove?

I can see some 'red' coming in from this buyer, even though we are 'bending over for Rover.'

I really hate it, but I think after this we're going to become another one of 'those sellers' who won't sell to newbies.

Suggestions appreciated.

Melina (fretting again)

A couple of things stand out here.

1. You have an unreasonable buyer & I mean that literally-they cannot be reasoned with.

2. You can't give them what they want so you're going to cop a neg or a blast whatever you do, so why not just stand up to them?

Stop offering replacements. Stop offering a refund. Maybe send a message that after consulting with experts (your boss) you have been advised there is only one way that can happen to a pipe.. then go into details. State that they caused the damage as the pipe was in excellent unused condition when sent. That a warranty does not cover misuse.

I was going to say you could mention that as a gesture of goodwill you would be willing to refund purchase price less postage costs but I am not sure you could add that as if you did refund that amount then they opened an item not as described case, you may end up having money withdrawn a second time. I'm not sure.

But just knock them back sternly.

They may then go on to open an item not as described case, & if that happens, then you just refund them and solve the case.

Okay, so you're then out of pocket the cost of the pipe. But if you send a replacement, you're out of pocket the cost of 2 pipes & you say the replacement pipes are even more expensive. Don't do it.

Re: Brand NEW buyers

brerrabbit585 — Fri, 09 Feb 2018 06:18:17 GMT

wrote:
wrote:
Well, we were warned when we started, 'Don't sell to new buyers', but we thought that was unfair as everyone has to start somewhere.

We've only had a handful, but each one has been problematic. I notice they appear young too.

One at the moment is a classic. 'Burnouts' in new pipes? Anyone who knows just a little about pipes knows this can happen in only one way and that is by allowing the pipe to become way too hot, exceedingly hand burning hot, during the break in process. Or, they have otherwise subscribed to the urban myth of breaking in a new pipe by hanging it, lighted, outside the window of a car travelling at say 30 miles per hour. That is one sure fire (no pun intended) way of scorching and blackening the heel of a new pipe, and that is exactly what has happened in this case. The pics are very clear. And, it's over such a large area - the complete heel of the pipe.

This is what we are dealing with, although we have not put this to the buyer, or otherwise suggested any fault on their part. Pointless in the beginning because it straight away creates confrontation. It has prompted me though, to be explicit with breaking in instructions with future dispatches. Things get so wordy though, in trying to cover 'all the bases.'

Anyway, we've offered one of two others, more expensive, that we have of the same brand, but not the same model, as replacements. No extra cost to the buyer. They are both substantially more attractive, at least to me. The buyer refused. He wants the same. I've explained that being a vintage, but still new pipe, I can't replace it. I reiterated my offer of one of the two more expensive pipes and the alternative of a full refund. Answer, 'I want what I bought replaced.' I've not responded as yet. Giorgy and Barry both tell me I'm being way too soft and to hit him between the eyes with what's he's done, but what's that going to prove?

I can see some 'red' coming in from this buyer, even though we are 'bending over for Rover.'

I really hate it, but I think after this we're going to become another one of 'those sellers' who won't sell to newbies.

Suggestions appreciated.

Melina (fretting again)
A couple of things stand out here.
1. You have an unreasonable buyer & I mean that literally-they cannot be reasoned with.
2. You can't give them what they want so you're going to cop a neg or a blast whatever you do, so why not just stand up to them?

Stop offering replacements. Stop offering a refund. Maybe send a message that after consulting with experts (your boss) you have been advised there is only one way that can happen to a pipe.. then go into details. State that they caused the damage as the pipe was in excellent unused condition when sent. That a warranty does not cover misuse.

I was going to say you could mention that as a gesture of goodwill you would be willing to refund purchase price less postage costs but I am not sure you could add that as if you did refund that amount then they opened an item not as described case, you may end up having money withdrawn a second time. I'm not sure.

But just knock them back sternly.

They may then go on to open an item not as described case, & if that happens, then you just refund them and solve the case.

Okay, so you're then out of pocket the cost of the pipe. But if you send a replacement, you're out of pocket the cost of 2 pipes & you say the replacement pipes are even more expensive. Don't do it.

If they open a case and you send a replacement, the case is likely to time out (in their favour) before their replacement arrives, so you'll lose both pipes and all your money. Plus you may get a defect from ebay for an unresolved case (not sure on that one).

It's too late for this time but if you offer too much it only makes you sound weak and they'll take advantage of that, so never offer more than they deserve, which in this case is nil.

Re: Brand NEW buyers

digital*ghost — Fri, 09 Feb 2018 06:50:54 GMT

Buyers like this are just trying to exercise control - never forget the buyer is not the business owner, and you (as in, the manager, owner, whomever) are in full control over the business decisions.

I've had a couple like this before, asking for things I've told them are not on the table. The way I handle it is to basically say "These are your options, if an option is not selected by X date, option (xxxx) will be provided automatically". I word it a little friendlier than that (phrases like "I understand..." and "unfortunately" are favourites of mine, lol), but that's the basic jist of it. If you give them specific choices, and then keep control over what solution will be provided by using that tactic, they will usually choose one of the two suggestions.

Not always, of course, but that's when you follow through with the action as stated - I've had to do it a few times.

Re: Brand NEW buyers

gutterpunkz05 — Fri, 09 Feb 2018 10:22:42 GMT

Someone on here recently mentioned the old addage, of inventing a bigger idiot, unfortunately it would appear you have encountered one of the new breed. There are some humungous ones out there. Best of luck, but the reality is that wether the buyer is a newbie or not, we all get stung from time to time and can be damned no matter what we do.

Re: Brand NEW buyers

justkidzbiz — Fri, 09 Feb 2018 14:06:00 GMT

Ah yes, some buyers will certainly try it on!

There was a post a while back where buyer purchased a brand new dress. About a week after receiving it, buyer opens a SNAD dispute claiming the dress was damaged.

Well, the clever seller did some FB stalking and there they were, photos of the buyer wearing said dress out at a function! Seller copied images and sent them to eBay.

This one was a "rare win" for Sellers!

Re: Brand NEW buyers

clubesquire — Fri, 09 Feb 2018 22:39:16 GMT

Thanks everyone for taking the time. You're all busy. I know that.

The truth is we're still 'squabbling' about what to do here. But, we'll end it today.

We're not that concerned about the red, which seems inevitable anyway. I think our prior feedback is good enough to carry it. And, we can respond to that when it happens.

Both the boys are adamant, so 2 against 1 will win out I think and culminate in an amended email being sent by one of them pursuant to their inspection of the pics.

I've spent hours amending our letter that goes with each dispatch and then even more with FAQ's to go with new listings, but it's just so lengthy and probably looks stupid. But, I'll put it up and just see. Something likes this certainly creates a reaction. It's hard when you take so much pride in every little thing that you do, but as someone said, I need to harden up too. I accept that.

Thanks for holding my hand.

Melina.

Re: Brand NEW buyers

Anonymous — Fri, 09 Feb 2018 23:26:11 GMT

Hmmmm, got me thinking

I am wondering if they are on Facebook? wondering if there are any photos/selfies they have posted 'clowing around' with the pipe

I was wondering something else in regards to what the pipe may have been 'used' to do , but I would probably get a dressing down from a mod if I suggested it could be a possibilty

In any case, I can see how hard you try to do all you can for your buyers, and go above and beyond

Sadly, as I said in a post the other day, no matter how much a seller does and how well they do it, at the end of the day it is all about the buyer (even if the buyer in question far from being honest)

Re: Brand NEW buyers

clubesquire — Sat, 10 Feb 2018 01:43:08 GMT

It's a possibility alright Bear.

Giorgy pointed something else out to me this morning. The chamber of the pipe is already so caked up. It looks like a pipe that is 12 months old with an extremely careless owner, not just used three times.

The boys are expert at what they do. 100 years experience between them. I need to listen.

I won't be replacing the pipe and will fight any attempt to refund.

And, no more new buyers. I know it seems unfair and makes things hard for decent people, but that's the way of the world isn't it. The majority suffer because of just a few selfish and dishonest opportunists.

i was told another thing when we returned and that was that within 12 months of coming back here, my attitude would change quite substantially. Sadly, well I think it's sad, that's happening too.

I'm relaxed about it all now. All good 🙂

Melina.

Re: Brand NEW buyers

melbourneclearance — Sat, 10 Feb 2018 04:10:02 GMT

When I see someone with less than 10 feedbacks (especially one with 0) has bought, I, too, throw my hands up in the air and exclaim "Oh, great!". I do this too when I see an American has bought. I have said in numerous threads that over 20% of American buyers in my shop make some sort of refund claims. Then when a claim from these high-alert groups does happen, I will say "That's it! I'm banning them all!". But then I would look at the numbers again and know that overall I still make profits off these people as a group.

I think over the years I have learned to somewhat detach myself from business problems. Some problems are more traumatic than others, but at the end of the day it is only money (don't let me stop you cursing them to hell). It is a lot easier to distance myself from business problems now that I only have web shops. I used to have a brick & mortar shop, if you want traumatic THAT was traumatic!

Re: Brand NEW buyers

digital*ghost — Sat, 10 Feb 2018 04:26:43 GMT

I don't think there's any consistency to that sort of thing, except perhaps with individual sellers, and maybe across sellers in similar businesses, since they would generally be attracting similar customer types.

My problematic buyers tend to be yellow stars (10-49 FB), and red stars (1000-4999 FB), but they would only just edge out the "competition", so to speak, as the experience of a buyer on eBay doesn't really determine their honesty or ethics - that's a life experience thing. Of course, a new ebay account doesn't actually mean a new eBay member, at any rate, but the bulk of issues I have with low FB buyers are caused by misunderstandings, or them not knowing how to do something, or what general eBay ettiquette is.

I also seem to have a problem with really great repeat buyers suddenly deciding to try something on, it's almost like they woke up one day and thought to themselves "I've been a great customer for a while now, I deserve to get something for free". It's really frustrating because I'll go above and beyond for those that treat me with respect - I give out free samples, include extra pieces in bulk packs, free upgrades to express etc. People who try something stupid lose all potential for that and just get blocked, regardless of how much they've spent with me in the past.

Funnily enough, I rarely encounter any issues at all with US buyers, or international buyers full stop (with the notable exception of Italy; I used to think France was problematic as well, but eventually realised it's a tone thing, and once you start communicating effictively, the buyers are nice as - the vast majority of issues have been with Aussies.

One thing I will say is that a couple of years ago, I needed to block unverified accounts from being able to purchase from me in an attempt to thwart a vindictive scammer - problems in general were noticably reduced after that, and I applied it to all unverified accounts, not just those below a certain FB score. I generally have a dozen or so pages of blocked purchase attempts in my buyer activity log, so you definitely lose out on sales, but the reduction in problems has been worth keeping my sanity (relatively) in tact, and some people will still find a way to contact me one way or another, and if they look ok (FB wise), I'll exempt them.

Re: Brand NEW buyers

melbourneclearance — Sat, 10 Feb 2018 05:14:05 GMT

I have found that lower priced items seem to have more complaints, I guess because of the customer base who expects to get the Hope diamond for the price of a $2 shop item.

Purely number-wise, Aussies are top in problems but it is also 95% of my trade. Percentage-wise Aussies are third after USA and Canada. USA is by far the most problematic in my shops with over 20%, Canada is around 5-6% and Aussies are less than half that. I never had problems sellig to Europe and Asia but I am very selective with the countries. Only Japan and Singapore in Asia and only the richest ones in Europe. Every transaction has been very pleasant.

As a seller, it is very unpleasant when things go pear-shaped, especially when we're convinced that the buyer is either a scammer or totally unreasonable. But hey, since when is it easy to earn money? This is the trade we choose, it can change our attitude and sanity, but we have to learn to not let that happen. Every occupation has its hazard. I know some problems are more traumatic than others but there is nothing that cannot be solved.

"This, too, shall pass" is a good motto.

Re: Brand NEW buyers

springyzone — Sat, 10 Feb 2018 12:04:08 GMT

@clubesquirewrote:
Thanks everyone for taking the time. You're all busy. I know that.

The truth is we're still 'squabbling' about what to do here. But, we'll end it today.

We're not that concerned about the red, which seems inevitable anyway. I think our prior feedback is good enough to carry it. And, we can respond to that when it happens.

Both the boys are adamant, so 2 against 1 will win out I think and culminate in an amended email being sent by one of them pursuant to their inspection of the pics.

I've spent hours amending our letter that goes with each dispatch and then even more with FAQ's to go with new listings, but it's just so lengthy and probably looks stupid. But, I'll put it up and just see. Something likes this certainly creates a reaction. It's hard when you take so much pride in every little thing that you do, but as someone said, I need to harden up too. I accept that.

Thanks for holding my hand.

Melina.

Glad you're amending the email and standing up to them.

To me, you probably don't need to put every fact into your listings. A general guide & description, along with several photos, should be enough.

But when you send out a pipe, it would be useful then to include a sheet of clear instructions if you like.

Something where you also have your FAQ & answers, and a note to the effect that if they notice there are any problems with the pipe on delivery to of course let you know immediately but to note that the pipe is not covered against misuse.

Like the boys say, don't worry about the red dot. Some people give negative feedback even when they get a refund or a replacement anyway, & your guy somehow doesn't seem like the understanding type. Imagine how annoying it would be if you had sent a more expensive replacement & so were out the cost of 2 pipes yet still got a neg. You've dodged a bullet there. Whichever way it swings now, at least you can only lose the money for one.

Re: Brand NEW buyers

kopenhagen5 — Sun, 11 Feb 2018 03:44:22 GMT

it would be useful then to include a sheet of clear instructions if you like.

Melina does that.

A sheet about pipes with care instructions and about clubesquire.

I purchased a pipe from her and details included are very thorough.

Melina, glad you are standing ground.

Re: Brand NEW buyers

springyzone — Sun, 11 Feb 2018 12:42:35 GMT

@kopenhagen5wrote:
it would be useful then to include a sheet of clear instructions if you like.

Melina does that.
A sheet about pipes with care instructions and about clubesquire.
I purchased a pipe from her and details included are very thorough.

Melina, glad you are standing ground.

That's good to hear. All the more reason why the buyer should not be offered a refund or replacement, if they didn't follow clear care instructions.

Re: Brand NEW buyers

clubesquire — Mon, 12 Feb 2018 20:33:31 GMT

A question please?

I always thought, in settings, you could prevent someone with less than say 10 FB from bidding, but all I'm seeing is -1, -4, etc. I'm not sure how to interpret that.

Im hoping I don't have to physically cancel a bid.

thanks.

Melina.

Re: Brand NEW buyers

lyndal1838 — Mon, 12 Feb 2018 21:47:26 GMT

You cannot block them if they are phone verified. Phone verification overrides low feedback.