topic Re: New payment method coming to eBay. in Selling

New payment method coming to eBay.

kopenhagen5 — Thu, 01 Feb 2018 09:58:16 GMT

Received an email today that eBay will be introducing a new payment method from Adyen.

At first glance it seems it will be very similar to PayPal.

Hope they are not planning on phasing out PayPal.

The transition to full payments intermediation will be a multi-year journey. eBay will begin intermediation on a small scale in North America starting in the second half of 2018, expanding in 2019 under the terms of the Operating Agreement with PayPal. In 2021, we expect to have transitioned a majority of Marketplace customers to the new payments experience.

Re: New payment method coming to eBay.

digital*ghost — Thu, 01 Feb 2018 10:09:17 GMT

Knew it was coming... 😕

Rather than a new payment method, it's more a new checkout system, so buyers will pay eBay via a checkout system not facilitated by PayPal (basically, for buyers it means they can pay via credit card without using PP as a guest, but according to the info PP will still be offered as a payment method - it's unlear to me ATM if that means sellers will still receive PP payments, or if they will go to eBay too and then be disbursed to the seller).

It'll work the same as the payment system on the other "E" (handmade) site, I warrant, so your funds accrue and then get transferred to you. On the "E" site you can do this daily, if you want, on the "A" site they pay out fortnightly. I wouldn't be surprised if eBay went with a longer timeframe.

They say "most" sellers will get reduced rates, but I doubt it. I'm on good merhcant rates with PP at the moment, and the rate via "E"s system is more than double in most cases. It'll affect anyone who makes use of PP's working capital loans, too, since sellers will get much less payments received directly through PP. And eBay's protection policies are likely to apply for INR / INAD - it will be interesting to see whether they'll provide protection for chargebacks... o.o

Re: New payment method coming to eBay.

melbourneclearance — Thu, 01 Feb 2018 10:17:15 GMT

They said expect the costs of payment processing to be reduced but said nothing about ebay's FVF. That probably means they will reduce the PayPal's 3% (2.5%? 2%? Small at least) by 0.01% and increase their own fees to Amazon's 20%.

I hope they don't phase out PayPal, I'm using that as the only payment method on my own website.

Re: New payment method coming to eBay.

kopenhagen5 — Thu, 01 Feb 2018 10:29:50 GMT

Thanks DG.

MC, PayPal will still be around, it's a stand alone company, I just meant I hope they don't phase it out of eBay.

PayPal is used by many, outside of online purchases, relatives sending money to each other etc.

Re: New payment method coming to eBay.

lm-entertainment — Thu, 01 Feb 2018 10:46:56 GMT

saw the email and freaked out a bit as well. thankfully it seems it's going to be a year or two away before it gets rolled out anyway.

it's kind of frustrating when ebay were the one's responsible for making ebay so heavily-reliant on paypal for buyers and sellers - to the point of just about forcing it down everyone's throats. to go and change that and make it just another option, obviously means ebay isn't making the amount of money they want to from paypal. they can put any spin they like on it, but i'm sure that's the reasoning - there's no way they're doing it to benefit buyers or sellers.

adyen does have some other huge partners like uber, netflix etc - though a lot of people have probably never heard of it. the strange thing is at it stands you have to apply to them to create an account and sign a contract, which i assume means the rates are based on sales / payment processing volume. guessing this will change once it starts rolling out on ebay, because it'll be too much of a complex system otherwise.

will be very interesting to see how it pans out..

Re: New payment method coming to eBay.

sticker.bargains — Thu, 01 Feb 2018 10:48:40 GMT

digital*ghost is spot on here. It'll be an "ebay wallet" type deal, where they hold onto the money for a predetermined time, before you can withdraw it. I'd bet the house that you'll be able to spend it on ebay instantly, though.

As for lowering fees...

Adyen state that you currently pay 12c per transaction (unsure if USD or AUD) plus points that vary on the method of payment. Most are 3%, but they won't quote a price for Visa or Mastercard.

If you sell something for $10, ignoring ebay fees, you'll pay 30c + 2.4%. So with Paypal, the fees are 54c. With Adyen, fees are 12c + 3%, so you'll pay 42c. That's if the fees on Adyen's website are in AUD.

Also we won't have Adyen accounts - we will have ebay wallets/accounts. Adyen don't deal with us plebs.

Re: New payment method coming to eBay.

lm-entertainment — Thu, 01 Feb 2018 10:49:38 GMT

i saw that too - you can view the rates in AUD - but the problem seems to be is that each payment method has different rates and availability (ie paypal it says is negotitated on a contract basis) so i guess ebay will have fees for paypal which they've agreed to with them. also, it says something about interchange++ for the major credit cards - which i may be simply ignorant, but i thought there's probably some sort of charge on top of the processing fee for using these - ie an adyen membership / service fee etc.

i guess we won't find out until it rolls out though..

Re: New payment method coming to eBay.

lm-entertainment — Thu, 01 Feb 2018 10:59:44 GMT

for anyone who might not have got the email and wants to read about it - the ebay info is here - https://www.ebayinc.com/stories/news/ebay-to-intermediate-payments-on-its-marketplace-platform/

Re: New payment method coming to eBay.

character_parties_aus — Thu, 01 Feb 2018 11:31:01 GMT

Fantastic Post

eBay wont be making this move to reduce the amount of money they can derive from sellers. They will be making this move to improve their papypal dependent payment system which one day will screw them if they have all eggs in one basket and at same time look for an opportunity to exert other ways of increasing indirect fees on existing sellers with perceived benefit.

Nothing has really changed other than the method in which profit is derived so just roll with it and increase your price by 2%!

Re: New payment method coming to eBay.

melbourneclearance — Thu, 01 Feb 2018 11:42:38 GMT

@sticker.bargains wrote:

If you sell something for $10, ignoring ebay fees, you'll pay 30c + 2.4%. So with Paypal, the fees are 54c. With Adyen, fees are 12c + 3%, so you'll pay 42c. That's if the fees on Adyen's website are in AUD.

Smaller items may be cheaper but bigger items will be more expensive. For example, $100 items will favour PP. Ebay's claim that we should expect less fees seem to be conditional (on current information at least).

kopes, ebay is no doubt PP's biggest customer. Without ebay I'm not sure what sort of PP it will be. But I guess there are plenty of payment processors out there. We don't need PP.

Re: New payment method coming to eBay.

rocket2retro — Thu, 01 Feb 2018 11:42:53 GMT

It sounds to me like that whilst claiming to improve the 'flow' of money between buyers and sellers, eBay might be planning on holding the money until a transaction is complete to the buyer's satisfaction (akin to the PayPal 21 day hold). Maybe I've too much into it but the 'intermediation' word scares me.

I remember back far enought to the pre-PayPal days of buyer's money flowing from their bank accoount into mine with no intermediation necessary.

Either way I've learned from experience that any big eBay changes like this are always to the detriment of sellers.

Hopefully I will have found another job before it rolls out.

Re: New payment method coming to eBay.

digital*ghost — Thu, 01 Feb 2018 12:38:53 GMT

@sticker.bargains wrote:

If you sell something for $10, ignoring ebay fees, you'll pay 30c + 2.4%. So with Paypal, the fees are 54c. With Adyen, fees are 12c + 3%, so you'll pay 42c. That's if the fees on Adyen's website are in AUD.

Also we won't have Adyen accounts - we will have ebay wallets/accounts. Adyen don't deal with us plebs.

Yup, ebay will be the payee, so they will receive the money from all payments, and then pass it on to sellers after whatever holding period they determine - if it works the same as the other "E" site, ebay will be responsible for the processing fees paid to Adyen, and then charge whatever they want to sellers (eg buyers can use PayPal over yonder, but if it's processed through the integrated checkout, the seller doesn't receive the payment direct to their PayPal account, "E" receives it, charges a higher processing fee, and then credits the seller's in-house payment account).

This also means that eBay will be providing an additional digital service, and GST will probably apply on top of the payment processing fees (it does on the other site).

Re: New payment method coming to eBay.

lyndal1838 — Thu, 01 Feb 2018 13:49:54 GMT

@melbourneclearance wrote:
kopes, ebay is no doubt PP's biggest customer. Without ebay I'm not sure what sort of PP it will be. But I guess there are plenty of payment processors out there. We don't need PP.

Paypal was a well recognised money transfer service long before ebay bought it. I was a customer long before I joined ebay and will remain so if they part company in the future.

I doubt that ebay is their biggest customer.....their customers are people who have accounts to use ebay as well as many who don't have a clue what ebay is. There are many large companies who accept payments through paypal....utilities, large department stores etc.

Re: New payment method coming to eBay.

lm-entertainment — Thu, 01 Feb 2018 15:50:15 GMT

how have you found it digi on the "E" site? reason i ask is because i've noticed that site uses the same payment processor that ebay are talking about using.

i guess as you've pointed out ebay will have a lot of differences (ie length of time to hold / withdraw funds and possible higher fees), but have you found the delay on those other sites is frustrating or was it just a matter of getting used to it? i imagine, once you get into the swing of things and have waited the initial time .. then you'll find you'll be able to get the income coming in despite it not necessarily being for the most recent sales / purchases?

would love to know your thoughts as i've never used those two places you referred to - but particularly interested in "E" just to hear about what the payment processor is like there as it's going to be the same one ebay will switch to as a default.

Re: New payment method coming to eBay.

chameleon54 — Thu, 01 Feb 2018 21:57:43 GMT

IF IT AINT BROKE .... DONT FIX IT....

I,m Sooooo over change just for the sake of it. Stop messin around and just fix the fr!gg!n things that dont work !!! That should keep the ebay " tech kids " busy for several years.

After that maybe have a review of the policies that are driving sellers away in droves. Another two years there. When ya finished that how about a properly run advertising and promotions campaign.

Hopefully by then ebay will have everything JUUUSSST Right, but it will be time for me to retire.

Re: New payment method coming to eBay.

brerrabbit585 — Thu, 01 Feb 2018 22:06:19 GMT

Ebay may have negotiated lower fees (they have with AP, so why not Adyen?) so there's no point in comparing their current fees with paypal's.

Speculation is pretty pointless at this stage. No point in imagining things that may never happen.

Re: New payment method coming to eBay.

brerrabbit585 — Thu, 01 Feb 2018 22:32:57 GMT

@kopenhagen5 wrote:
Received an email today that eBay will be introducing a new payment method from Adyen.
At first glance it seems it will be very similar to PayPal.
Hope they are not planning on phasing out PayPal.

The transition to full payments intermediation will be a multi-year journey. eBay will begin intermediation on a small scale in North America starting in the second half of 2018, expanding in 2019 under the terms of the Operating Agreement with PayPal. In 2021, we expect to have transitioned a majority of Marketplace customers to the new payments experience.

Didn't you read this bit in the email:

PayPal, a long-time eBay partner, will be a payments option at checkout for eBay buyers.

I'd imagine if paypal is still an option when people go through checkout, the majority of buyers will still use it for a long time because they're familiar with it. They won't understand anything else and will choose what they're already familiar with. It'll only be those who don't have a paypal account or don't wish to use it for some reason that will choose the other option. By time people are freely using ebay's payment system I'll be well out of here so I won't be losing any sleep over it.

Re: New payment method coming to eBay.

wide-world-of-stamps — Thu, 01 Feb 2018 23:18:09 GMT

We definitely prefer to use Paypal when paying for things online, rather than entering our credit/debit card details.

It's so much quicker & easier as we don't have to get the card out every time.

It also seems safer rather than having card details entered into many different places.

Re: New payment method coming to eBay.

digital*ghost — Thu, 01 Feb 2018 23:57:08 GMT

@lm-entertainment wrote:
how have you found it digi on the "E" site? reason i ask is because i've noticed that site uses the same payment processor that ebay are talking about using.

i guess as you've pointed out ebay will have a lot of differences (ie length of time to hold / withdraw funds and possible higher fees), but have you found the delay on those other sites is frustrating or was it just a matter of getting used to it? i imagine, once you get into the swing of things and have waited the initial time .. then you'll find you'll be able to get the income coming in despite it not necessarily being for the most recent sales / purchases?

It's no too bad, once you're fully verified as a seller and are no longer subject to the intial delays. When you first set up for their direct checkout - which used to be optional but is now mandatory - your first payment takes about 5 days to clear. I always felt this was actually the worst aspect of it, because in order to accept them in the first place, you need to provide financial info (because funds are paid directly into a bank account), and when I opened my second store I also needed to provide photo ID which is now the standard, but despite all this verification, the first sale a seller ever gets, the payment is always pending for a minimum of 5 business days, so can't be sent for that long and the buyer has to be told they have to wait while the verification process completes for the seller. A really bad and unprofessional way to start things off for new sellers, IMHO, since it can make the sellers look a bit dodgy (or at least, not ready for business), so I hope the same thing doesn't happen here.

For the first three months, after the first payment clears, your funds are credited to your payment account after (I think) 3 days, and after that they're credited the next day regardless of the time of day the buyer purchases (i.e. if they buy an hour before the clock ticks over, the funds become available in an hour), and once they're available to you, you can make a manual withdrawl any time, or you can just set them up to automatically withdraw daily, weekly or fortnightly, so while you can't instantly spend money the same way you can with PP, you do have fairly ready access. You can't spend the funds on site at all, unless it's to pay seller fees.

Every now and then a payment won't clear immediately, and they can take up to 5 business days to do so, but usually take around 2, same situation as an eCheque, really.

There's never been much of an issue with payments being received into my bank account, sometimes it's in there next day, sometimes it takes 2, and it took 4 days when the scheduled deposit fell on Christmas day last year. I know they did have an incident when a mass amount of deposits were "lost" for several days, but that happened a little before my time and I believe the funds were ultimately provided to the sellers.

But, I opened both of my stores before their checkout was the only option, and sellers were able to just offer PayPal only (separately), or direct checkout (which is what it was originally called, now it's "E" payments). When they introduced integrated checkout, where sellers could just use their system while buyers could still use PayPal and "E" would receive / process it, sellers were given the option to keep PP as a separate payment option so that buyers using it would still have their payments sent directly to the seller's account. I actually switched to this option in one of my stores, but when they announced that integrated checkout will be the only option for all new stores, and they were removing the ability for sellers to turn it on and off, and if you had it turned off, you would never be able to go back to separate PP, I switched back so I could keep my options open, so I continue to have separate PP in both of my stores, where if I opened a new one today, I wouldn't be able to.

They don't offer merchant rates like PP, so you pay the same rate no matter what your volume is - even without merchant rates applied to my PP account, "E"s system is more expensive (USD 20c + 3.5% for local payments, or 4.5% for international, plus GST).

However, that also means I can see how many people prefer using "E"s checkout with CC, and how many people prefer to stick with PayPal - I sell internationally there, and there are some countries that almost exclusively use PP, there's also a couple where the checkout system hasn't actually been introduced and PP is the only option, but for Australia, buyers definitely prefer PP, the US most use CC, the UK is kind of an even split.

The most complaints from other sellers when the choice was taken away concerned no more immediate access to their funds, which they got with PayPal, and people preferred being able to use the funds in that account to purchase business related stuff (buy stock, and other supplies). I prefer PP for those reasons, too, and this change is definitely going to affect how I buy from my suppliers. Anyway, since it is stil a US-centric site, most sellers found sales increased if they were PP only and then went to the integrated checkout (a cynical person might suggest they go more exposure since "E" would now profit from the payment processing, but the preference US buyers have for cards over PP is very clear to me).

I have other concerns with eBay being in control of money from sales, because the other site is much more seller friendly than here. They won't come up with hare-brained reasons to keep a seller's money from them, and I'm not sure I trust eBay not to do something like that. Recently, a bunch of Chinese sellers lost all of the stock they sent to "A" for fulfillment, and the site also confiscated all of their funds in Germany (admittedly this has to do with tax law stuff, but we're talking millions of dollars just forfeited in an instant, and the sellers not being able to do anything about it - that kind of scenario scares me greatly, especially if eBay doesn't allow withdrawls for two weeks or something, because even with PayPal - who can freeze an account at an instant - I can make sure I always keep the balance at something I'm willing to lose for 6 months (or forever) if something like that ever happens). Aside from that little niggle in my head, my main concern is higher fees + GST.

It was quoted above that PP will still be available for buyers, as in quite specifically buyers and not sellers, so I think that may suggest PP payments will indeed go to eBay and a higher rate than PP's will be charged to sellers.

Re: New payment method coming to eBay.

4coolgirlsonly — Fri, 02 Feb 2018 01:21:37 GMT

Death to the garage sale seller - no small seller will want to "verify" with ebay - who, in their right mind - would give ebay their social security number or direct access to their bank account?

How many times has Ebay been hacked - and allowed malware and spyware and all sorts of other things to be pickedup just by clicking on certain seller listings?

Plus, you have no intermediary and no where to go to dispute a transaction where ebay sides with a buyer and either refuses to pay out to the seller or goes right into the seller's account to take the funds out. Think about all the problem NAD cases you've had or tech problems trying to straighten out with ebay's "CSR"! Moreover - where is the wall between you and this new company - based in the Netherlands and outside the US legal system? You can't even get the attorney general involved.

One class action lawsuit against ebay requiring full disclosure - or one government investigation - and all that personal financial seller information gets subpoened and every single individual trying to recoup a dollar by selling unwanted closet items get caught up in a complicated mess. Not to mention sales tax collections.

This is why the "E" platform had to open itself up and accept "homemade" goods from mass produced oversees manufacturing plants to stay afloat and new sales platforms are opening up every day trying to lure the small time seller in.

This might be fine for big box stores and power sellers - but I don't see any hobby sellers willing to give ebay any more personal or financial then they already have to use the site now.