topic Re: Return Request in Selling

Return Request

munchkin83munchkin — Sat, 05 May 2018 02:04:06 GMT

I sold some thongs a few weeks ago and got a return request the other day which says 'Item Not as Described' and her messaged added says she can't wear them.

They were brand new as described and they were the size that they were described as, so I don't know what she means that they aren't as described and why she can't wear them.

The Return Request gave me the option to send a message, so I asked in what way were they not as described and why she couldn't wear them. I didn't get a response. I see that she only joined ebay just before buying them and therefore has no feedback.

I contacted ebay via they're chat line aand explained the situation and said I'm always happy to refund and have done in the past, when there is a problem, but that I wasn't prepared to do it on this occassion as I know they are exactly as they were described. I told them that I had sent a message, but so far had not had a response

The person I was chatting with said that I had done the right thing by messaged and agreed with me that I shouldn't have to refund....though I do take this with a grain of salt.

They said to wait the 3 days and if I don't hear back to contact them again and they would escalate the matter.

I'm concerned that if I do escalate this matter that they will turn around and find in their favour and automatically refund them. I mentioned this to the chat line person and they were all 'No, we wouldn't do that....blah, blah'

It's now been 4 days since the return request was received and I sent a second message to them explaining that I had contacted ebay and they had suggested that if there was a genuine problem to send me pictures to support their claim.....but I have had no response from them. If it is left as it is, what will happen? Or should I contact ebay and ask them to escalate the matter?

Re: Return Request

kopenhagen5 — Sat, 05 May 2018 02:31:23 GMT

No, don't ask eBay to escalate.

You have done all the right things and if the buyer doesn't respond or escalate, the case will time out and close.

Unfortunately if buyer escalates, they will probably get a refund.

But maybe the buyer cannot be bothered to send pics and will forget about it.

Good job on asking for pics.

Re: Return Request

clarry100 — Sat, 05 May 2018 04:44:34 GMT

You have rightfully placed the ball into the buyer's court by asking them questions about which they have not responded.

If the case remains in this status, then after 30-days it should just time out and close in your favour.

However, they have been known not to time out, and in my case after the 30-days I called ebay and they did indeed close it in my favour when this had happened. It took a couple of days after the phone call to actually close tho.

It is risky for the seller to wait the 30-days... this is becasue at any time during this 30-days the buyer can simply come back to the case and escalate it without any further response to you. If they do this then ebay will instantly find in their favour and you will be awarded a defect of the worst kind for a case unresolved by the seller.

*** edited to correct a typo ***

Re: Return Request

melbourneclearance — Sat, 05 May 2018 04:59:58 GMT

Never escalate to ebay as a seller.

The case will be closed automatically if the buyer does not escalate it. New buyers tend to open a case on a whim, then back down and do nothing. Don't send any more messages to the buyer if they don't reply and just wait for the case to close.

In my experience, if the buyer does not respond, it usually means they have backed down. Only once in my history that a (brand new) buyer opened an INR case the first day he could on an untracked item, I asked him if he would mind waiting a little longer as AP is sometimes late, he didn't reply. Then the very first day he could escalate the case he escalated and I received an automatic defect. But that's a horror story and horror stories don't happen everyday.

Re: Return Request

munchkin83munchkin — Sun, 06 May 2018 04:09:16 GMT

Thanks for all the responses.....It seems everyone is saying not to escalate. I have heard before that ebay will usually support the buyer in these situations. I mentioned this to ebay and they were adamant that this isn't necessarily the case...but it seems everyone seems to think otherwise

Re: Return Request

Anonymous — Sun, 06 May 2018 04:16:24 GMT

I've not had one myself, but every single person I know who has, ebay has sided with the buyer 100% of the time

Personally I can't (actually, yes I can) believe the rep claimed 'they would'nt do that'

Most certainly a shoe in for pants on fire of the year award that one

Re: Return Request

davidc4430 — Sun, 06 May 2018 04:25:12 GMT

dont forget, the buyer has been given the power to lie and get away with from ebay.

if they just say they dont fit, too small/large then i suspect ebay will side with them.

not much different than if you buy a pair of thongs in woollies, get home and find they dont fit, would you throw them away or take them back for a different size or your money back.

has something to do with 'fit for purpose' laws i think.

with ebays 'guarantee your a happy vegimite' policy sellers are in a corner with every sale, fingers crossed the buyer is 'a happy vegimite'

i'm still waiting for 'that buyer' who isnt a 'happy vegimite' or is a 'i want it free buyer'

Re: Return Request

Anonymous — Sun, 06 May 2018 04:57:05 GMT

Ebay's motto is

"We don't care if you're a liar as long as you're the buyer"

Re: Return Request

kopenhagen5 — Sun, 06 May 2018 05:31:33 GMT

@munchkin83munchkin wrote:
Thanks for all the responses.....It seems everyone is saying not to escalate. I have heard before that ebay will usually support the buyer in these situations. I mentioned this to ebay and they were adamant that this isn't necessarily the case...but it seems everyone seems to think otherwise

The call centre reps are in the Phillipines, NOT eBay staff.

They often say things to keep the peace but then eBay does the opposite.

Re: Return Request

redders_60 — Sun, 06 May 2018 05:35:16 GMT

There is also something about "Not of merchantable quality" with regards to the "Not fit for intended purpose" argument.

I bought a Vax stick vac from Target & it wouldn't suck! (Excuse the pun!) I got my money back straight away upon return. A lot of laughs but no further questions asked from the sales staff. I had the reciept.

So I suppose the expectation is that the item will do what it's meant to do; & if it doesn't you have the right to a refund. I bought a Wertheim upright with the refund money. It was cheaper & much better than my cumbersome Dyson; but a tad heavier than a cordless stick vac to manouvere! - But I can't recommend it more highly for price & useability!

Re: Return Request

melbourneclearance — Sun, 06 May 2018 06:11:20 GMT

@munchkin83munchkin wrote:
Thanks for all the responses.....It seems everyone is saying not to escalate. I have heard before that ebay will usually support the buyer in these situations. I mentioned this to ebay and they were adamant that this isn't necessarily the case...but it seems everyone seems to think otherwise

I've had ebay side with me plenty of times before, even in a few cases where I did not have a tracking number (but these were a long time ago and the buyers were plainly fraudulent). Still, escalating to ebay is not something I would ever do. The chances of the buyer backing down are much higher than the chances of ebay siding with you. Fight the cases on your term, if you don't think you can win, just refund, rightly or wrongly.

Now, if we were talking PayPal cases, I have never lost a PayPal case I decided to fight. There is no secret which company I think is fairer.

Re: Return Request

davidc4430 — Sun, 06 May 2018 06:58:01 GMT

@redders_60 wrote:
There is also something about "Not of merchantable quality" with regards to the "Not fit for intended purpose" argument.

I bought a Vax stick vac from Target & it wouldn't suck! (Excuse the pun!) I got my money back straight away upon return. A lot of laughs but no further questions asked from the sales staff. I had the reciept.

So I suppose the expectation is that the item will do what it's meant to do; & if it doesn't you have the right to a refund. I bought a Wertheim upright with the refund money. It was cheaper & much better than my cumbersome Dyson; but a tad heavier than a cordless stick vac to manouvere! - But I can't recommend it more highly for price & useability!

the way i see it is with a lot of stuff, if its 'new in box', unless its faulty there should be no refunds.

except

with stuff like clothes where an item can be perfect but if the buyer cant 'try it on' (excuse the pun) and it doesnt fit its most likely useless to the buyer.

example, i sell mostly new toys, so unless it doesnt work somehow i cant see why a refund would ever be required.

but if i sold a 'new' jumper size XL and the person found it was too tight i would maybe not be happy be ok about refunding apon return. (still it really shouldnt be my obligation to pay return postage)

i recently bought some clothing online from Big-W (my first time with them)

i discovered their sizes dont quite match sizes i have been buying locally and had to return some of my items. i had to pay return postage. but now i know what sizes to order in future if i buy from Big-W i most likely wont have reason to be returning anything.

i got some jumpers for $8 each that my local Target has for $15 but as i said it seemed target sizes and big-w sizes dont match up. plus a nice denim jacket for $29 that at target was $49.

and i didnt have to drive to the store just to find they didnt have my size on the rack. happens a lot here.

Re: Return Request

countessalmirena — Sun, 06 May 2018 07:50:33 GMT

This is one of the drawbacks of buying clothes online.

As a rule, I don't, unless the clothes are from a clothing manufacturer whose clothes I've tried on and bought in the past from a shop - or where the pertinent measurements are listed. I'm probably not the average sort of buyer, because if I bought clothing online and it didn't fit me, I'd - excuse the pun - wear the loss. I don't think it's fair for me as a buyer to use an online seller as a way of getting clothes sent to me for a fitting (virutal change room). If the fit is important, I hop into the car, drive to the shops which have clothes in which I'm interested, try on the clothes, see how they fit, see how they look, decide if it's exactly what I want, and buy.

There is a website that sells some clothing by some of my favourite labels; as they show measurements and have all sorts of helpful suggestions about clothing, I did take the risk of buying from them. They do have a "No Hassles" 365 Day Return Policy which I think is staggeringly generous, but I realise that it's probably something that they feel is necessary to offer as a sort of edge for online buyers. A little bird told me about them.

For no particular reason, I am reminded of that somewhat twee poem by Isaac Watts:

"Birds in their little nest agree;

and ‘tis a shameful sight,

when children of one family

fall out, and chide, and fight."

Re: Return Request

melbourneclearance — Sun, 06 May 2018 08:12:11 GMT

The seller should be able to set their own conditions of sale.

Unless there is something wrong with the item or the item is mis-described, if the seller says No Return then it is no return. If the seller advertises a piece of clothing as M, for example, then the buyer should be careful. "Medium" is a loose word, it may or may not fit the buyer. The buyer is free to ask for the measurements in cm, but if the buyer buys without any question and it does not fit then the buyer has no one to blame but himself.

I have had a few complaints about my items being too small. In my mostly-unprejudiced opinion, if the listing did not state the size and you did not know the size when you bought it, then you void the right to complain about size. Heck, buyers complain about sizes anyway whether or not it is stated. The worst case I've had was a buyer who bought an item with "14cm Large Keepsake Urn" in the title, the very first line of the description in bold and bigger font, and the bottom of the description. The next thing I knew she opened a SNAD case - "I bought a large urn, I received a miniature item". I sell a handful of 14cm large keepsake urns and over 80 normal sized 7cm keepsake urns. Even if I did not have "normal" keepsake urns "14cm" was repeated 3 times. Even if "14cm" was not mentioned the word "keepsake" should have been a clue. Needless to say I won that case.

Re: Return Request

digital*ghost — Sun, 06 May 2018 08:55:20 GMT

I get that a fair bit too - my "favourite" one was an angry message telling me the item was so small the buyer couldn't use them and now had to buy different ones, leaving me to wonder what they expected from an item when the first word in the title was "tiny" followed by the precise measurement (not to mention my images showed them to scale). There seems to be a few people out there that don't even bother reading titles or looking at photos before buying. I even had one who purchased something 50mm long, then purchased the same item at 40mm long, and complained (only in feedback) that they were shorter. >_> (I mean, I've made mistakes like that a few times with items, but I always double-check the listing first, discover it was my fault, and kick myself for a little while. I will never understand the ones who just decide everything is the seller's fault).

With regards to clothing, a lot of people think that if they buy something and it doesn't fit them, it's "not fit for purpose", which is simply not true in the vast majority of cases. If a t-shirt functions as a t-shirt, it's fit for purpose; and for it not to be, it would need to have a flaw that makes it unwearable by someone, eg one of the sleeves is sewn shut or something. The only way an article of clothing that doesn't fit someone becomes "not fit for purpose" is when the retailer explicitly states it will fit them in particular, and I don't know of any B&M stores that will make those kinds of promises, let alone online ones, unless they are tailored items made to order.

Re: Return Request

springyzone — Sun, 06 May 2018 12:50:40 GMT

My favourite example is still from feedback I saw for a seller I bought from. She was selling 3mm double sided tape (listed as such in the title), which for me was the answer to a prayer, I was rapt & it was good quality too.

But the poor woman had sold the same product to someone who gave her a neg and said it was horrid narrow tape, not even 1cm wide.

I don't know when I have laughed so much & I loved the seller's comment (to me) that the other buyer's first purchase on ebay really should have been a ruler.

With clothes, I have sometimes bought things on ebay that have been a disappointing fit. That doesn't make the ad wrong or the clothes not fit for the purpose, just not the right fit for me personally. Same thing can happen in shops. I've never even thought of trying to send anything back on ebay, just put it down to my own bad luck. If i had been sent the wrong size, that would be different of course.

Re: Return Request

chameleon54 — Sun, 06 May 2018 13:55:34 GMT

@redders_60 wrote:
There is also something about "Not of merchantable quality" with regards to the "Not fit for intended purpose" argument.

I bought a Vax stick vac from Target & it wouldn't suck! (Excuse the pun!) I got my money back straight away upon return. A lot of laughs but no further questions asked from the sales staff. I had the reciept.

So I suppose the expectation is that the item will do what it's meant to do; & if it doesn't you have the right to a refund. I bought a Wertheim upright with the refund money. It was cheaper & much better than my cumbersome Dyson; but a tad heavier than a cordless stick vac to manouvere! - But I can't recommend it more highly for price & useability!

Isnt that a Piano.....

Wertheim where a well known piano manufacturer and uprights are the regular type your granny had in the hallway.......

Re: Return Request

beerandpizzaplz — Sun, 06 May 2018 14:34:18 GMT

Possibly the buyer is unable to wear the thong due to their inability to get their legs through the straps.

Did you state clearly in your listing that what you were selling was footwear not underwear?

Re: Return Request

Anonymous — Sun, 06 May 2018 23:54:19 GMT

The buyer could surely have been able to seen from the photo if they were foot thongs or bum thongs if that were the case

Re: Return Request

countessalmirena — Mon, 07 May 2018 01:49:29 GMT

Footwear - for bottoms!

Sling your derrière into these, and be the ~~envy~~ amazement of all your friends!

DISCLAIMER: Seller takes no responsibility for buyer's remorse after nether region connectivity to item.