topic How reliable is seller protection? in Selling

How reliable is seller protection?

collectorinreverse — Sat, 29 Sep 2018 00:01:09 GMT

Although I have sold a lot of stuff on ebay, I have not encountered this before.

I sold an item to a bloke in the U.K, he took two weeks to pay for it, but that is neither here nor there.

I posted the parcel on the 3rd of September, using tracked mail.

The tracking shows every step of the trip to the U.K , including an attempted delivery on the 11th of September.

The buyer contacted me a couple of days ago, his message contained four words - the parcel hasn't arrived.

I advised the man of the attempted delivery, I sent him a screen shot of the Australia post website.

He responded by saying he wasn't left a card.

I recommend looking up the website or visiting his local post office, this is the response - It does not state which post office, there are quiet a few, also it wont allow me to ask for a re delivery.

It seems as though this bloke is not willing to take any action to find his parcel. ( other than message me)

If it were me, here in Australia , I would be down at my local post office with the tracking number, asking questions.

Any how, this morning he has opened a dispute.

I have re entered the tracking number.

I am thankful that I always send with tracked mail.

I have the receipt.

I am just wondering, what will happen now?

Am I protected? It was $120.00 worth including postage, so it would be a lot to loose, plus the initial item.

Re: How reliable is seller protection?

kopenhagen5 — Sat, 29 Sep 2018 00:10:35 GMT

Is it an eBay case or PayPal case he opened ?

Re: How reliable is seller protection?

collectorinreverse — Sat, 29 Sep 2018 00:11:33 GMT

From what I can tell it is an ebay case

Re: How reliable is seller protection?

kopenhagen5 — Sat, 29 Sep 2018 00:27:38 GMT

Ok, if it was a PayPal case I would be very confident in calling them as they only require proof of postage.

However, eBay require proof of delivery and delivery attempt is not enough.

eBay consider the fact that the parcel may now be returned to you.

I would wait it out and hope the PO does another delivery attempt before returning.

Calling eBay at this point in time would risk an action of seeing in favour of buyer with parcel turning up at buyer's address.

If it was me and having cheap international calls on my phone I would call the PO in the area and make an inquiry stating buyer has asked for re-delivery confirming correct address.

Tracking should show which PO.

Re: How reliable is seller protection?

collectorinreverse — Sat, 29 Sep 2018 01:10:17 GMT

I just rang Australia post. They were fairly helpful.

They said it the parcel was sitting waiting for the guy. They gave me the phone number for Royal mail, and said to pass it on.

They said that if the guy rings them, he can come and collect it or arrange a re delivery.

It will be interesting to see what happens, I guess I will just have to wait it out.

Re: How reliable is seller protection?

collectorinreverse — Sat, 29 Sep 2018 01:22:15 GMT

What I don't understand, is why a buyer would open a dispute, before attempting to contact their post office and at least trying to sort it out from their end.
It isn't a difficult task, and expecting a seller on the other side of the world to do it all for them.
After speaking with the post people they said that he needs to arrange collection or a re delivery. I can't do that for him 😞

Re: How reliable is seller protection?

lyndal1838 — Sat, 29 Sep 2018 01:40:25 GMT

If the buyer refuses to collect his item from the PO he is not entitled to a refund.

I wonder if he realises that.

If you have anything in writing that states it is awaiting collection it might be a good idea to upload it to the dispute.

Re: How reliable is seller protection?

digital*ghost — Sat, 29 Sep 2018 02:09:48 GMT

If it was worth $120 then the buyer would need to pay VAT plus the collection fee on the item, so attempted delivery is probably the incorrect status but Aus Post's website often has that incorrectly because they don't seem to have a status that means awaiting payment of VAT etc - this could also be the reason the buyer is claiming INR right after the status of attempted delivery, because they don't want to pay it and think they can just get a full refund by saying they never got it (it wouldn't be the first time, unfortunately ).

In this case, although the MBG does clearly state that the buyer does not have protection (because they are essentially refusing delivery), I wouldn't trust the automated system to decide it correctly, so I recommend getting in touch with eBay by phone (use the call me back option), explain the situation and make sure an actual human sees that the item has arrived and is awaiting the buyer's collection. I wouldn't mention the VAT thing for fear of confusing the rep, lol, just point out that the MBG states the buyer is not covered because delivery has been attempted, and that the buyer can simply contact Royal Mail to make arrangements to collect their item.

Re: How reliable is seller protection?

collectorinreverse — Sat, 29 Sep 2018 02:33:22 GMT

Thanks for that information. Just to clarify, The item was AU$72.00, the rest was postage ($47) = $119

Re: How reliable is seller protection?

digital*ghost — Sat, 29 Sep 2018 03:09:01 GMT

Buyers have to pay VAT in the UK on merchandise that is valued at £15 or more, (roughly $27), I think it's 20% of the value, plus a £9 collection fee, so the buyer's purchase would likely cost them around an extra £22 to collect, or $40 AUD.

I think the threshold is slightly higher if marked as a gift, but not by much, and the hefty collection fee applies regardless of the value of the item, so lots of buyers in the UK are (apparently) shocked and surprised by it.

Some items seem to get through anyway, and because the UK is part of the EU, buyers can currently purchase from other EU countries without having VAT applied, so some seem to just try their luck - A couple of years ago, I had one that claimed INR on me as well and asked for a replacement (original didn't have tracking), I sent the replacement via a tracked method, thus increasing the overall value quite a bit, but that seemed to arrive ok, then 2 months later the original came back to me marked refused due to non payment of VAT. An expensive lesson for me.

Re: How reliable is seller protection?

collectorinreverse — Sat, 29 Sep 2018 03:30:44 GMT

digital*ghost , this is very interesting information. Thank you very much!
I didn't know any of this.
I am looking forward to hearing the buyers response to the information that I have submitted for the case he has opened.
I will wait until Tuesday before I contact ebay , just in case he does collect it on Monday.
The irony is that he got his item for an absolute bargain. Even with the taxes, he got a good buy.
That's one of the reasons that I didn't open a non paying bidder alert when he didn't initially pay. I wasn't going to pressure him for payment, because if he hadn't payed, I am confident that I would have got a lot more for my item by relisting it., ebay is fickle like that.
Some people don't know a good thing when they are on it.

It's the dishonesty that staggers me

Re: How reliable is seller protection?

justkidzbiz — Sat, 29 Sep 2018 04:14:14 GMT

Contact Australia Post via Messenger (you'll get a quicker response than using the website "Contact us". Once they confirm it is awaiting collection etc, ask them to email you all the details, and then forward to eBay.

Re: How reliable is seller protection?

digital*ghost — Sat, 29 Sep 2018 04:38:59 GMT

@collectorinreverse wrote:

I will wait until Tuesday before I contact ebay , just in case he does collect it on Monday.

Not to sound harsh, but I would strongly recommend against doing that, because you get a very limited amount of time to resolve a case before the buyer can escalate and make eBay decide the outcome - if they escalate and it is found in their favour, which is a possibility when there isn't a delivered status, you'll receive a defect that can negatively impact your account. Not only that, but the buyer could then end up being refunded and still collecting the item, meaning it won't be returned to you; you may be able to argue the case with eBay and get your money back, but such endeavours are usually very frustrating and take a long time.

You don't need to do the buyer any favours here; they know what they can do to find their package, and they will still be able to follow through with that no matter what the status of the eBay case is (they may actually be more inclined to go get it once they realise eBay won't refund them).

Plus, contacting eBay now is the best way to protect yourself against an incorrect decision (anything they say in your favour over the phone, ask them to copy to an email and send it to you, in case you need to refer them to it at a later stage).

Re: How reliable is seller protection?

collectorinreverse — Sat, 29 Sep 2018 08:39:13 GMT

I just got a reply from the buyer, here it is, no big surprise!
"I have called Royal Mail and they have told me the reason it cant be redelievered is because there is an import.duty charge to pay, nearly £17, i have never paid duty on any records i have purchased and i buy ma.y from the USA. I am not willing to pay this as i have already paid high postage. Sorry."

Re: How reliable is seller protection?

lm-entertainment — Sat, 29 Sep 2018 08:51:18 GMT

this is pretty much guaranteed to be a lie. anyone from the UK knows that imports (especially when it sounds like they've imported from other countries before) require the payment of VAT, unless it was included in the price to begin with. if these records were purchased from ebay and from the US, there's next-to-no-chance that VAT was included in the price.

i'd be directing him to this website - https://www.gov.uk/goods-sent-from-abroad/tax-and-duty and telling him it's his responsibility to collect the goods and pay the necessary tax.

Re: How reliable is seller protection?

digital*ghost — Sat, 29 Sep 2018 08:58:53 GMT

@collectorinreverse wrote:
I just got a reply from the buyer, here it is, no big surprise!
"I have called Royal Mail and they have told me the reason it cant be redelievered is because there is an import.duty charge to pay, nearly £17, i have never paid duty on any records i have purchased and i buy ma.y from the USA. I am not willing to pay this as i have already paid high postage. Sorry."

Best response ever - an open admission they are refusing delivery due to something that is 100% their responsibility.

Now you have everything you need to get in touch with eBay, and - hopefully - have the case resolved in your favour.

If you want to give the buyer a chance, I'd message them back with what is now my most common response to people like this:

"Dear [buyer], Sorry to hear that you were surprised by the taxes your government applies to imports over a certain value. Unfortunately, while I understand that the surprise is never a nice one, I do need to advise that import duties and taxes are considered the buyer's responsibility (both to be aware of, and pay), and as the package is showing as arriving to you with delivery being attempted but refused (through non-payment of the charges), a full refund can not be provided - this is supported by eBay's Money Back Guarantee policies, that is, by rejecting delivery of the package, the purchase is no longer eligible for a refund or eBay's Buyer Protection.

Royal Mail will hold the package for a designated period, and then return it to me by the most economical postage method, which is often sea mail, but if it arrives back to me in original condition, I will issue a refund of the purchase price, minus all costs - please be aware that this may take several months, due to the holding period by Royal Mail, and longer duration of shipping by sea.

Kind regards

[Seller]"

To give an idea of timeframes, I got a package just last week that I sent to the UK, returned once again due to refusal to pay VAT , and it was originally sent to the buyer in April - basically it took about 4-5 months, depending on when it first landed in the UK, to get back to me.

Also, you may want to have a read through this recent, related thread - this particular buyer opened a PayPal claim, but it might give you some further insight or guidance when dealing with eBay: https://community.ebay.com.au/t5/Selling/Buyer-opens-ridiculous-PayPal-claim-am-I-screwed/m-p/2186169#M175486

Re: How reliable is seller protection?

collectorinreverse — Sat, 29 Sep 2018 08:58:28 GMT

We just got off the phone with ebay, thankfully they read his response, and have agreed that the item has been refused buy the buyer.
Under these circumstances, they closed the dispute manually in our favour.
It's a relief , there has been some justice . Having said that, I had to fight for it, the ebay reps don't listen very well, and need to have things explained with great assertiveness .

Re: How reliable is seller protection?

digital*ghost — Sat, 29 Sep 2018 09:01:28 GMT

@collectorinreverse wrote:
We just got off the phone with ebay, thankfully they read his response, and have agreed that the item has been refused buy the buyer.
Under these circumstances, they closed the dispute manually in our favour.
It's a relief , there has been some justice . Having said that, I had to fight for it, the ebay reps don't listen very well, and need to have things explained with great assertiveness .

Oh - Fantastic. 🙂

The first bit anyway; the bit re: the eBay reps is all too common and familar, but I'm glad it worked out.

Re: How reliable is seller protection?

collectorinreverse — Sat, 29 Sep 2018 09:04:44 GMT

Here's what happened

Sep. 29

The buyer sent a message

Comments

I have called Royal Mail and they have told me the reason it cant be redelievered is because there is an import.duty charge to pay, nearly £17, i have never paid duty on any records i have purchased and i buy ma.y from the USA. I am not willing to pay this as i have already paid high postage. Sorry.

Sep. 28

You sent a message

Comments

I had a look on the website and was able to find the phone number for 'ROYAL MAIL' 03 457 740 740 I spoke with a lady, she said they have your parcel , it is waiting for you to collect. She said that you need to ring them, you can either arrange a re delivery or go and collect it your self. Please ring the number, this is an easy solve

Sep. 28

You added tracking details

Courier:

Australia Post

Tracking number:

LK968837335AU

Comments

Once the parcel enter the U.K the name of the courier will change. A post office will be able to advise.

Sep. 28

You sent a message

Comments

The Tracking number is L********AU The buyer needs to take some action, they need to go the nearest post office with the tracking number and ask them.

Sep. 28

The buyer didn't receive the item

Buyer requested

The item

Comments

Item has not arrived and cannot be traced.