topic Does eBay require the signature must be the seller's sign... in Selling

Return goes missing

hoodiejs — Thu, 04 Oct 2018 06:27:28 GMT

Hi there,

I'm wondering if anyone could provide some insight on this situation.

I recently had a buyer return an item due to change of mind. The item was worth nearly $1,000.

The tracking says it was delivered, but I have not received it. I am in contact with Australia Post, but they say they have limited information due to the service the buyer used to send the item back.

The buyer did not purchase a signature on delivery or insurance!

Am I screwed here? I've read that eBay require buyers to get signature on delivery for valuable items. Is that true?

Re: Return goes missing

clarry100 — Thu, 04 Oct 2018 07:21:24 GMT

Certainly for sellers when an item is over $750 then signature is an eBay requirement.
But for returns I'm unsure.
I would think you need to launch an investigation with Australia Post for an item of that value.
But if the tracking shows delivered then my feeling is that eBay are likely to side with the buyer as they typically do.
Without insurance then Australia Post are unlikely to compensate.

Maybe others with greater experience than I might have more information for you.

Re: Return goes missing

stickerswa — Thu, 04 Oct 2018 09:32:56 GMT

Contact austrlia post and demamnd a delivery address but do it on thier facebook page (I have it on good authority if it is raised on their page it gets priority) . If they still dont help tell them you will call the postal Ombudsman and DO IT! It was sent with tracking or it wasnt and if it was then Australia Post HAVE to follow it up !

Re: Return goes missing

jellybirddesigns — Thu, 04 Oct 2018 10:22:52 GMT

I agree about doing it on their FB page, but send it as a nicely worded private message otherwise your FB friends may be able to see what you write as it will come up in their feeds.

I've had great succes when contacting them this way.

Re: Return goes missing

digital*ghost — Thu, 04 Oct 2018 10:37:31 GMT

Contacting ebay will need to be a priority as well, especially if the tracking has been uploaded to eBay and the status is saying delivered, because eBay will automatically issue a refund if you don't (3 days after it says delivered).

In this case, you want to make it clear to ebay that the package has not been delivered to you, and that a tracking number is not sufficient proof the buyer sent the package back to you at your return address, plus, due to the value of the package, the requirement for using a signature on delivery service surely must extend to the buyer when returning the purchase. I would be inclined to advise ebay that if evidence showing the package was sent to your delivery address, plus signature on delivery, is not obtained, any refund issued to the buyer will be contested legally.

I might even be inclined to ensure they couldn't access cash funds, TBH. How is the buyer handling the situation? As the sender, technically they need to handle the AP investigation, so are they currently aware of the situation, and / or how are they behaving in general?

Re: Return goes missing

clarry100 — Thu, 04 Oct 2018 13:49:09 GMT

All the above is good advice.

Just wondered what the tracking status says.
Does it say delivered to your suburb?
Australia Post do misdeliver stuff fairly often.

Re: Return goes missing

clarry100 — Thu, 04 Oct 2018 13:53:12 GMT

Another thought...
I have a son who works at the Australia Post call centre in Brisbane.
If you would be prepared to pass me the tracking number I will ask him to look it up and advise what you should do.

Re: Return goes missing

hoodiejs — Thu, 04 Oct 2018 15:16:04 GMT

You are too kind, thank you! I'll send you a PM now.

Re: Return goes missing

hoodiejs — Thu, 04 Oct 2018 15:21:17 GMT

Yeah, I spoke to eBay for about an hour. They seemed very supportive. They basically said what you said regarding the buyer needing to get a signature considering the items value. They said unless the buyer could provide a signature, no refund would be made to them.

However, I've noticed with eBay that you often get different answers from different people so I'm not overly confident this is really the case.

Re: Return goes missing

hoodiejs — Thu, 04 Oct 2018 15:26:12 GMT

Thanks for your replies. Just to clarify, I've opened a case with Austalia Post and I've contacted eBay about the issue too. A case was opened with Australia Post and eBay have told me to contact them once the investigation is complete.

Re: Return goes missing

digital*ghost — Thu, 04 Oct 2018 16:45:42 GMT

@hoodiejs wrote:
Yeah, I spoke to eBay for about an hour. They seemed very supportive. They basically said what you said regarding the buyer needing to get a signature considering the items value. They said unless the buyer could provide a signature, no refund would be made to them.

However, I've noticed with eBay that you often get different answers from different people so I'm not overly confident this is really the case.

That's reassuring to hear, I hope that follows through; I do know high value cases tend to be handled a little more reservedly than others, but as you say with eBay you can never really be confident of the outcome - I often ask the rep I'm speaking to, to send me an email copy of the information provided during a phone call, and they have always obliged. So if you have need to speak with them again on the phone, I'd recommend that so you have a record of the information (that way, if something goes wrong, you have written evidence generated by eBay that you can show / refer to).

Re: Return goes missing

clarry100 — Thu, 04 Oct 2018 20:05:03 GMT

I've passed the tracking number to my son at AP.

Let's see if he has any more info or can suggest anything we've not thought of here.

Will get back here if there is anything new to report.

************************************************

This could also be a bit of a scam attempt by the buyer to get a $1,000 item for the cost of postage each way.

I mean lodge a claim for change of mind (for which they have to pay return postage) but then actually send an empty satchel to a friend or relative who lives in the same locality as you solely to get the delivered scan event and hence their refund from ebay/you.

But in this case they might have overlooked the fact that they need to provide a signature on delivery that they have not requested. So they should not get their refund at all becaue of the lack of a signature.

Anyway just a thought.....

If at the end of the day you think the evidence points towards a scam attempt by the buyer I would open a case with The ACORN.

https://www.acorn.gov.au/

Present all your evidence gathered and let the Feds investigate.

If you go this way then pass the case number to your buyer to let them know they are under investigation.

Re: Return goes missing

stickerswa — Thu, 04 Oct 2018 21:30:20 GMT

@hoodiejs wrote:
Yeah, I spoke to eBay for about an hour. They seemed very supportive. They basically said what you said regarding the buyer needing to get a signature considering the items value. They said unless the buyer could provide a signature, no refund would be made to them.

However, I've noticed with eBay that you often get different answers from different people so I'm not overly confident this is really the case.

Which is why I never call them on the phone. I always use live chat ...you get a written copy of the conversation so if it goes pear shaped ...they cant say - no we didnt say that!

Re: Return goes missing

everard6920 — Thu, 04 Oct 2018 21:36:33 GMT

@stickerswa wrote:
@hoodiejs wrote:
Yeah, I spoke to eBay for about an hour. They seemed very supportive. They basically said what you said regarding the buyer needing to get a signature considering the items value. They said unless the buyer could provide a signature, no refund would be made to them.

However, I've noticed with eBay that you often get different answers from different people so I'm not overly confident this is really the case.
Which is why I never call them on the phone. I always use live chat ...you get a written copy of the conversation so if it goes pear shaped ...they cant say - no we didnt say that!

You can get them to send you a summary of the phone conversation, though (I've requested that before, and have had it emailed). Just don't hang up the phone until you receive the email and review it.

I can't handle the online chat. You type something, wait 10 minutes, they reply with something that doesn't answer your question (), so you type again, wait another 10 minutes, they get it wrong AGAIN . . .

Re: Return goes missing

hoodiejs — Thu, 04 Oct 2018 21:47:35 GMT

Ha! Yep, pretty acurate. I used live chat to speak with them. It did take over an hour, as the agent was very slow.

Re: Return goes missing

hoodiejs — Thu, 04 Oct 2018 21:50:45 GMT

I forgot to mention, the buyer really has said nothing at all. eBay messaged her asking for tracking details. She messaged me after that asking what's happened as she had received an email from eBay claiming I didn't recieve the return. I explained that I didn't, and also kindly asked why no signature was requested. This was yesterday afternoon and there has been no reply since.

Re: Return goes missing

clarry100 — Thu, 04 Oct 2018 22:36:32 GMT

Maybe it's my suspicious mind but....

Why would someone order and pay for $1,000 worth of postage stamps (info from PM) and then have a change of mind and want to return them?

I'm thinking buyer returns an empty package to get a refund from ebay becasue tracking shows delivered. It has happened before.

If Aust Post do locate this package and deliver it to you I would be very cautious when opening it.

I would take it unopened to your local PO or police station and open it in front of a credible witness who would be prepared to sign a written statement if the returned package contained nothing or a sheet of paper or similar.

Also take a video of the opening just in case.

Re: Return goes missing

hoodiejs — Fri, 05 Oct 2018 00:05:51 GMT

That was my first thought too. It's just too suspcious.

I actually spoke to eBay when she first opened the return as I was concerned. I asked them if I should film myself opening the box and they agreed it could be used as proof.

I just messaged the team on Facebook as like others have said they are really helpful. Hopefully some answers soon.

Re: Return goes missing

justkidzbiz — Fri, 05 Oct 2018 19:14:44 GMT

Request an eBay call back and then ask them to provide that information in writing.

Re: Return goes missing

clarry100 — Fri, 05 Oct 2018 20:23:41 GMT

My son got back to me late yesterday.

There is no GPS data with the delivered scan event. Also there is no photo with the scan event.

The delivery was done by a postie on a bike.

So I'm assuming the one you know already. So you might see if you can stop him/her out the front for a chat.

And of course no signature recorded as none was required.

So unless whoever has it is honest enough to make it find its way to you it seems unlikely it will ever be found.

To me it seems your only line of defence here is that the buyer did not pay for signature when that is a requirement for items valued at over $750. So you might have to spend some time on the phone with a CSR (or two even) pushing this point and get them to close out the case in your favour.

The only other possibility is if the postie left it out the front of your house how exposed would it be?

Could it have been stolen by someone?

But I'm guessing it was a small parcel post satchel that the postie would have stuffed into your letter box.

I'm guessing you would have looked well inside your letter box in case its jammed up inside the top rather than on the floor of it.

I don't know what else to suggest here... Sorry!