topic Re: PayPal Chargeback-Unauthorised transaction in Selling

PayPal Chargeback-Unauthorised transaction

rocket2retro — Wed, 10 Jan 2018 12:55:05 GMT

Just had a PayPal chargeback case opened against me for an 'Unauthorised Transaction'.

A buyer bought an item from me and the ebay eBay account was opened that very day (he bought it with immediate PayPal payment required)

I posted the item but it was a letter so I have no proof that I've sent it.

It looks like another win for the scammers, as it appears I won't be covered by that useless crock of $#1+ known as 'seller protection' without any tracking info.

Can anyone suggest what the outcome may be or what I can do to help my case? There were no other details about how the transaction was deemed 'unauthorissed'.

Re: PayPal Chargeback-Unauthorised transaction

mbselections00 — Wed, 10 Jan 2018 16:23:04 GMT

I had my first PayPal credit card charge back case opened against me last week and also thought I was doomed, but wasn't really concerned as it was only for a small amount - also was Large Letter postage and not registered. I do however take a list of my mailings each time I post, which I have stamped at the PO, so to at least prove I had posted in good faith, I sent a copy off to PayPal and to my pleasant surprise PayPal refused the buyer the charge back, well that's what I assumed happened as they said they would not be with-holding my funds and no refund would be issued . . . . . . and they responded within approximately 24 hours

Not sure if that will be any help in this instance if you have no proof of postage, and as a large seller, not sure if it would be worth your while to consider doing in the future, but perhaps it may be a help to others

I know eBay require proof of delivery, but I have had several wins with PayPal by being able to prove I have posted with this method even though the articles do not have tracking - at least PayPal give sellers an opportunity to defend themselves and a fairer hearing and accept non-delivery is out of our control once lodged over the counter

Edit : If you have a receipt of any kind for postage on the day you posted, perhaps a phone call to PayPal wouldn't be wasted - good luck

Re: PayPal Chargeback-Unauthorised transaction

lm-entertainment — Wed, 10 Jan 2018 17:07:45 GMT

that's really interesting. i always thought you needed some proof of lodgement which included the buyer's address as shown on the payment notification. in the past, i've had to show a lodgement receipt with the tracking number and a photograph of the front of the addressed satchel showing that the tracking number corresopnds to the address on the payment summary.

i've only had a couple of chargebacks through paypal - which happened around the same time - the bank is usually the one that decides whether or not the chargeback is successful. paypal will determine whether or not you are covered by seller protection and either not take your money, or after the chargeback has been settled by the bank, return any money they took and held from you.

Re: PayPal Chargeback-Unauthorised transaction

mbselections00 — Thu, 11 Jan 2018 02:35:29 GMT

@lm-entertainment wrote:
that's really interesting. i always thought you needed some proof of lodgement which included the buyer's address as shown on the payment notification. in the past, i've had to show a lodgement receipt with the tracking number and a photograph of the front of the addressed satchel showing that the tracking number corresopnds to the address on the payment summary.

i've only had a couple of chargebacks through paypal - which happened around the same time - the bank is usually the one that decides whether or not the chargeback is successful. paypal will determine whether or not you are covered by seller protection and either not take your money, or after the chargeback has been settled by the bank, return any money they took and held from you.

For proof of lodgement I use a list like this and it was one of these that related to the chargeback (I have removed names and street addresses for obvious reasons):-

Although I know it's a no win with eBay if a buyer opens an INR case, but if ever a buyer messages to say they have not received their order, I always start by (apologising of course) and send them a copy for their assurance that the order was posted and has been lost by Aust. Post, ask them to check with neighbours blah blah blah. It's not that I have a problem issuing the occasional refund, but for the genuine buyers, it's my reputation I'm trying to protect and I have found using this method items often miraculously arrive within 24 hours ! so it at least means a few less scammers win.

Regards the chargeback, yes I also thought it was the bank who made the decision which is why I was very surprised when PayPal got back to me so quickly and released my funds which had been on HOLD - you are probably correct, I may have been covered by Seller Protection.

Just found the email, here's the actual wording :-

An update on your PayPal Case PP-D-

We're are happy to let you know that the chargeback was decided in your favour.

We've reimbursed your PayPal account for the disputed amount.

Re: PayPal Chargeback-Unauthorised transaction

rocket2retro — Thu, 11 Jan 2018 03:26:37 GMT

Thanks to the board members for their advice.

Even though I need proof of sending the item (which unfortunately II don'y have), the real issue is not whether I sent the item, but moreso that the buyer claims he did not authorise the payment from his credit card.

It's all very dodgy (eg brand new eBay account etc).

I'll just have to wait and see wwhat eventuates. Fortunately it's not for a great deal of money ($22.00 all up) but witth ever dwindling eBay sales, every bit counts!

Re: PayPal Chargeback-Unauthorised transaction

imastawka — Thu, 11 Jan 2018 03:37:05 GMT

Sometimes it's not the buyer doing the chargeback. It's their bank, because they've

maybe overextended their credit, and the bank wants it's money back.

I had one of these last year. Buyer knew nothing about it. Case went against me.

Paypal didn't charge me the $15 fee. I have no idea why.

I sent the buyer an invoice through Paypal to re-pay - and they did. No probs.

Re: PayPal Chargeback-Unauthorised transaction

ozstockman — Thu, 11 Jan 2018 06:03:44 GMT

Be prepared to loose your money and to be charged $20-25 on top for so called chargeback fee.

Do not believe paypal they are going to fight for you and even though they will ask you to provide a proof of postage the bank that has opened this chargeback won't care.

The only thing you can do is to call Paypal, ask for a supervisor and get him/her to explain what is their responsibility as a financial institution and what for their charge their transaction fee for. I can tell you that they are responsible for clear trouble free transactions. They are accepting payment and credit card details and in fact it should not be your problem as a receiver of payments that they have not cared enough to verify that your transaction was legit.

They will start talking about their policy and that they say about chargeback in it and you agreed to it but you can say that putting something wrong in a policy does not make it right.

The whole chargeback problem is a kind of legit scam for banks but everybody forgets today that online sellers have no tools to verify any transaction going through Paypal or banks. So because as a seller you cannot verify a transaction but Paypal and banks can they should cary losses and pay fees, not you. Just be persistent. If they won't do anything you can try to call financial ombudsman and explain that Payapl did not do their job as a financial institution in your case and they asked you to pay for their negligence.

I think these chargeback practise somehow can be applied to a physical store owner where they can ask for a buyers ID but applying it to online purchases and processing payments through Paypal thing is totally wrong.

Once I was able to explain. or may be made a Paypal supervisor tired .. that Paypal should not charge me any charge back fee and under no circumstances they could take my payment She finally agreed and unblocked that payment and removed the charge back fee.

It actually happened to me over a custom order where I exchanged a lot of emails with my buyer including a proof for your sign. The buyer was happy, asked me to create her order in my system and paid. Then after a few weeks I received chargeback for this transaction. My buyer ddid not reply so I had to deal with Paypal only. it was $75 order.

The first chargeback was over less than $10 payment. I could not do anything and I lost the payment and paid charge back fee which was a few times more.

Re: PayPal Chargeback-Unauthorised transaction

phorum_junkie* — Thu, 11 Jan 2018 23:37:18 GMT

On the very few times I have had a non trackable item claim I just refund straight away regardless of the reason. If you have no proof of posting how do ebay know if it is you or the buyer who is telling porkies.

I presume it is a low value item or you would have registered it so just refund so you avoid the extra fee for didputing the decision.

Re: PayPal Chargeback-Unauthorised transaction

imastawka — Fri, 12 Jan 2018 01:31:24 GMT

PJ, it's a chargeback, not an INR that's the problem.

Re: PayPal Chargeback-Unauthorised transaction

hotrodvideo — Sun, 14 Jan 2018 20:58:29 GMT

Must be the month for credit card charge backs( Unathorised transaction ) via pay pal. Just received one for an item sold on Christmas day ! .Again my item was sent to the USA airmail letter rate no tracking ( $3 postage as compaired to around $20 tracked parcel ) . Got the usual notification fromn PP wanting proof of posting etc.otherwise i loose my funds .Seems PP dont give a damm regards security with card payments ,I was in the US last year their credit card security is Backwards , the shop assistant handnt seen the RFID chip before and they know nothing about pay wave, seems banks overthere are reluctant to implement security, lots of resturants a getting hit with chargebacks according to news reports

Re: PayPal Chargeback-Unauthorised transaction

clarry100 — Sun, 14 Jan 2018 21:10:34 GMT

The PayPal chargeback fee is $15. They only hit you up for this fee if you choose to contest it.
If you do contest it and win they will credit the $15 fee back to you.

Re: PayPal Chargeback-Unauthorised transaction

melbourneclearance — Sun, 14 Jan 2018 21:39:49 GMT

@hotrodvideo wrote:
Must be the month for credit card charge backs( Unathorised transaction ) via pay pal. Just received one for an item sold on Christmas day ! .Again my item was sent to the USA airmail letter rate no tracking ( $3 postage as compaired to around $20 tracked parcel ) . Got the usual notification fromn PP wanting proof of posting etc.otherwise i loose my funds .Seems PP dont give a damm regards security with card payments ,I was in the US last year their credit card security is Backwards , the shop assistant handnt seen the RFID chip before and they know nothing about pay wave, seems banks overthere are reluctant to implement security, lots of resturants a getting hit with chargebacks according to news reports

Pay wave is the furthest thing from "security" I can think of.

In my experience, the US customers complain/request chargebacks 20% more than here. I jack up their postage price to cover the extra risk of sending things to them.

Re: PayPal Chargeback-Unauthorised transaction

lyndal1838 — Mon, 15 Jan 2018 02:44:36 GMT

The US credit card security is abysmal.....a parent can just give their child their card to go on a shopping spree.....no authorisation needed. how "safe" is that?

Re: PayPal Chargeback-Unauthorised transaction

collect247 — Mon, 15 Jan 2018 02:51:45 GMT

Ah yes just like you see it happen in the movies lol.

Anyone can use anyone's creditcard as they are all so honest aren't they in the US

Re: PayPal Chargeback-Unauthorised transaction

digital*ghost — Mon, 15 Jan 2018 07:32:19 GMT

@hotrodvideo wrote:
Must be the month for credit card charge backs( Unathorised transaction ) via pay pal. Just received one for an item sold on Christmas day ! .Again my item was sent to the USA airmail letter rate no tracking

Sometimes the customs number is tracked in the US, which if you have a record of it, may be able to help establish proof of post (or delivery if it's tracked as delivered).

Do you have access to self-service terminals at an Aus Post outlet? If you do, you can use those to get lodgement receipts that list all of the customs numbers individually of any OS package scanned in, whether it's tracked or not (the staff at my PO don't seem to be able to figure out a way to do this at the counter terminals, though it's been mentioned here before that it's possible).

I take photos of the package with the customs form and keep them for a minimum of 6 months (chargebacks can happen up to a year after the initial purchase, though, so it can be worth hanging on to them for longer), I make it so the address is clearly visible, and file the lodgement receipt by date in case I ever need it. I've not yet had to test whether PayPal will accept these things as proof of postage, though, since all of my chargebacks have been from Australian buyers.

Re: PayPal Chargeback-Unauthorised transaction

nextparty — Fri, 11 Jan 2019 04:38:21 GMT

Hi everyone,

I've got 2 similar cases recently. The 2nd one is more obvious fraud. We've reported buyer to eBay. And called PayPal team to explain all situation.

Hoping they will make the right decision.

Stolen credit cards make more damage to sellers than before.

Re: PayPal Chargeback-Unauthorised transaction

bubblegh — Fri, 11 Jan 2019 13:53:32 GMT

Sadly, I think most likely you'll lose the case no matter what you do for PayPal.

I've had about 4 over the years and lost every single one of them to the tune of around $1000 in total. PayPal always do a song and dance via email about fighting the chargeback but I really believe that not a lot happens.

Buyers also don't care if the bank opens a chargeback. I remember one buyer said the bank called them about "suspicious activity" one day and they just agreed to whatever the bank wanted to do without reaslising what the payment was for and how much trouble it caused me. I lost the money still, even though twice the buyer said they had asked to reverse the chargeback. I think PayPal also simply don't care after a certain amount of time.

It's a real low point of online selling.

Re: PayPal Chargeback-Unauthorised transaction

porcelain_dolls_by_me — Sat, 12 Jan 2019 04:53:26 GMT

We recently had a charge-back on PayPal as a result of an eBay buyer lodging a charge-back with her credit card provider for a fraudulent transaction.

Item was sent by regular mail so we had no proof or postage to satisfy PayPal seller protection

HOWEVER, we did point out to PayPal the buyer had in fact left us positive feedback for the eBay transaction, there proving the item had been sent, and to the correct address.

Common sense dictates proof of received should satisy the proop of postage requirement.

Not the case and we lost the appeal

Re: PayPal Chargeback-Unauthorised transaction

nextparty — Fri, 18 Jan 2019 12:39:19 GMT

Thanks for sharing this brilliant idea!

Re: PayPal Chargeback-Unauthorised transaction

mbselections00 — Sat, 19 Jan 2019 03:16:20 GMT

You're most welcome , hope you never need to use it 🙂 but if you do, I hope it helps you (and other sellers) win the odd battle