topic Re: Has anyone else copped this 4% surcharge for Very High SNAD rate ? in Selling

Has anyone else copped this 4% surcharge for Very High SNAD rate ?

dontmissthese — Tue, 29 Jan 2019 22:46:59 GMT

Since 21st January this little charmer has dropped in my lap.

Additional 4% fee for Very High Item not as described rates

Thing is, according to the metric break down, my rate is NOT Very High.

Called ebay and it is being rectified.

Seems like a money grab because ebay has specified 0.40% as a return rate

based on a 'peer' group yet they have provided no details about what this

peer group is.

Re: Has anyone else copped this 4% surcharge for Very High SNAD rate ?

digital*ghost — Tue, 29 Jan 2019 23:10:22 GMT

I haven't been personally affected by it, but I know of a seller who has and I took a look at how eBay calculate what is "very high" - I was actually pretty gobsmacked by it, since they don't just do it as a percentage of your sales, but compare you to other seller's rates, without showing any of the data that goes into determining that.

Basically it looks like they determine an average for sellers in similar categories, and then apply that to everyone who they determine falls under that banner, which would suggest if you have a lot of competitors who have very high rates of INAD requests, your average allowed before the higher FVF is applied is more generous, while if you have very few competitors, and / or the average is lower, your own threshold is a lot lower.

In comparing what was considered "very high" in my (and a couple of other seller's) store(s), the threshold was sitting at around 1% - this is more than twice what eBay seem to have specified for you (i.e. I get pinged at 1 in 100, while you get pinged at 1 in 250).

Extremely unfair, IMHO, and I am always suspicious of eBay ~~when they hide data like that.~~

Re: Has anyone else copped this 4% surcharge for Very High SNAD rate ?

wide-world-of-stamps — Tue, 29 Jan 2019 23:10:21 GMT

How do you find out the rate for a particular category?

Re: Has anyone else copped this 4% surcharge for Very High SNAD rate ?

digital*ghost — Tue, 29 Jan 2019 23:16:48 GMT

If you go to the seller hub and click on the "performance" link, on the lefthand side is a menu with a "service performance" link. If you click that, it will show a graphic with the rates.

I just double-checked mine and found something particularly interesting. When I last looked at it, it was before eBay announced the additional 2% increase to the FVF, making it the current total of an extra 4%, and the "very high" rate was indeed indicated to be at around 1%, but while I'm obviously not in any current danger, it is now clearly lower than that.

Re: Has anyone else copped this 4% surcharge for Very High SNAD rate ?

brerrabbit585 — Tue, 29 Jan 2019 23:47:50 GMT

If you click on the little i under 'see how you compare to your peers' it says your peers sell in the same category but also have similar listing attributes like price, expected delivery dates, item condition and return policies. If that's the case I wouldn't be compared to the biggest sellers in my category because they mostly offer returns.

Re: Has anyone else copped this 4% surcharge for Very High SNAD rate ?

digital*ghost — Wed, 30 Jan 2019 00:09:27 GMT

It's still exceptionally vague, though, because nothing is verifiable for the seller. At least with other seller metrics is a universally straight percentage of your sales, so things are very clear cut and pretty much anyone can do the math.

This is still largely a "secret formula" (how can I verify who my peers are, and whether the average number of INAD claims does indeed run at 0.19%?), and I suspect - after discovering the sudden lowering of the average, post adding a further 2% to the higher FVF payable, to less than half the previous threshold - arbitrary and, essentially, bogus.

Plus, opening a request counts towards the percentage - it doesn't matter how it is resolved, or even if it was a proven mistake from the buyer (this happened to another seller, and eBay refused to take it off the count towards this metric).

Re: Has anyone else copped this 4% surcharge for Very High SNAD rate ?

dontmissthese — Wed, 30 Jan 2019 00:09:01 GMT

I guess I will just have to keep wondering about the 'size' of the peer sample.

In my selling area there may well be 50,000 sellers.

What if eBay has selected 100 of the lowest return rate sellers.

It's hardly a representative sample.

Why not an 'average' return rate across all 50,000 sellers ?

It shall remain one of life's great mysteries unless the overall impact

is so severe financially that a 'class' might compel ebay to substatiate

the basis for it's 'peer' data.

We can all dream 🙂

Re: Has anyone else copped this 4% surcharge for Very High SNAD rate ?

digital*ghost — Wed, 30 Jan 2019 00:12:21 GMT

I like to watch this video and replace YouTube with eBay 🙂

Re: Has anyone else copped this 4% surcharge for Very High SNAD rate ?

dontmissthese — Wed, 30 Jan 2019 00:14:09 GMT

If that is a real screen shot of yours Ghost then just 1 SNAD return will put you

on 0.045% Looks like a lot of thin ice in our futures. Bad buyers will be given

a new extortion tool.

Re: Has anyone else copped this 4% surcharge for Very High SNAD rate ?

digital*ghost — Wed, 30 Jan 2019 00:27:29 GMT

By my calculations, it would take 4 requests to put me in the "average" zone, and maybe 6-7 to put me in the "very high" zone.

Let's say it's 8 - that's 0.36% of transactions.

Very narrow edge indeed.

Re: Has anyone else copped this 4% surcharge for Very High SNAD rate ?

dontmissthese — Wed, 30 Jan 2019 00:31:10 GMT

I hope the internet will always be as it has entrenched itself as our 'knowledge' base.

At 79 years of age I should have a room full of books including encyclopedia but I just

Google. Thankfully most of my general knowledge is now hard wired but I pity ( and to

a certain extent fear ) those who rely on a gadget in their hands to add simple numbers.

The internet is nothing more than a modern Tower of Babel with a side dish of 'watching

you closely with a view to getting you to BUY'.

A massive solar flare will see billions of people staring blankly at the palms of their hands.

Re: Has anyone else copped this 4% surcharge for Very High SNAD rate ?

dontmissthese — Wed, 30 Jan 2019 00:38:05 GMT

Looks like a lot of thin ice in our futures.

Sorry but should have been more correctly stated as...

Looks like a lot of thin ice in our futures ( apart from those of articulate trolls ).

Re: Has anyone else copped this 4% surcharge for Very High SNAD rate ?

brerrabbit585 — Wed, 30 Jan 2019 00:39:24 GMT

I'm not sure how they could provide any data without breaching privacy. They can hardly give us a list of which sellers they're comparing us to, or how many returns they have compared to ours.

Re "pretty much anyone can do the math", I think you're over-estimating most people's ability!

Re: Has anyone else copped this 4% surcharge for Very High SNAD rate ?

digital*ghost — Wed, 30 Jan 2019 00:48:54 GMT

My main point was that they are using 100% unverifiable data to decide on who gets charged higher fees and who doesn't. This puts sellers in a completely powerless position if they are affected by the extra FVF, because they have no basis for saying it isn't right, it's just a decision handed down from on high using data only eBay knows. (They could start by saying how many sellers I'm being compared to, sales volume etc, there's a lot of information that can be provided which eBay have opted not to).

The other metrics are not unverifiable, if someone is bad at maths, I'm sure they can find someone who is decent enough to work out if it adds up - not so with the service performance metric.

The fact that any opened request counts, no matter what, is just further proof to me that this initiative is for getting more revenue, not discouraging bad selling practices.

Re: Has anyone else copped this 4% surcharge for Very High SNAD rate ?

dontmissthese — Wed, 30 Jan 2019 00:50:39 GMT

I am sure that ebay wouldn't provide the basis for their 'peer' calculation even

to the extent of providing the 'number' of sellers that formed the peer group.

Re: Has anyone else copped this 4% surcharge for Very High SNAD rate ?

brerrabbit585 — Wed, 30 Jan 2019 00:58:58 GMT

@digital*ghost wrote:
By my calculations, it would take 4 requests to put me in the "average" zone, and maybe 6-7 to put me in the "very high" zone.

Let's say it's 8 - that's 0.36% of transactions.

Very narrow edge indeed.
https://www.ebay.com.au/help/policies/selling-policies/service-metrics-policy?id=4769

According to the policy you could have 22 returns for not as described without being subject to consequences (22 being under 1% of your 2,222 transactions). You said it's clearly now less than 1% but the policy still says it's 1%. I think that gives you plenty of wiggle room. If your rate of returns for INAD went up to 22 you could expect the same to happen to other sellers, which would raise the peer percentage so that your rating would drop again.

Your rate is evaluated as "High" or "Very High":

Item not as described: You're not performing as well as your peers in making sure that buyers receive the items they ordered as described in the listing, and in setting and meeting buyer expectations.
If you're rated Very High in a category, but you had fewer than 10 "Item not as described" returns or your "Item not as described" rate is under 1% in a specific category during the evaluation period, you won't be subject to consequences.

Re: Has anyone else copped this 4% surcharge for Very High SNAD rate ?

digital*ghost — Wed, 30 Jan 2019 01:06:42 GMT

That does put it (or perhaps just me) in a better perspective.

....But I still don't like the whole system

Re: Has anyone else copped this 4% surcharge for Very High SNAD rate ?

dontmissthese — Wed, 30 Jan 2019 01:08:21 GMT

No one is in disagreement as to the principle ebay is adopting but

to select a group based on the lowest number of returns while at the same time

encouraging buyers to return items seems a little unfair.

Surely it would be more fair to adopt a baseline return rate using an average

across ALL similar sellers.

Re: Has anyone else copped this 4% surcharge for Very High SNAD rate ?

brerrabbit585 — Wed, 30 Jan 2019 01:12:05 GMT

Try looking at it from a different perspective. Buyers are leaving ebay in droves because of sellers who are sloppy with their descriptions, or deliberately lie. One of the best ways to pull those sellers into line is to hit them in their hip pocket as it seems to be the only thing that'll make some people listen.

I realise it's not fair if cases are opened and then closed in the seller's favour, but ebay have given sellers a fair safety margin.

Re: Has anyone else copped this 4% surcharge for Very High SNAD rate ?

digital*ghost — Wed, 30 Jan 2019 01:17:04 GMT

@brerrabbit585 wrote:
Try looking at it from a different perspective. Buyers are leaving ebay in droves because of sellers who are sloppy with their descriptions, or deliberately lie. One of the best ways to pull those sellers into line is to hit them in their hip pocket as it seems to be the only thing that'll make some people listen.

I realise it's not fair if cases are opened and then closed in the seller's favour, but ebay have given sellers a fair safety margin.

I see that perspective, I just can't agree with this as the solution to it, nor can I agree with how it's been implemented.

In carrot vs stick situations, carrots are proven to be more effective.

If a seller genuinely doesn't care, they can just up their prices.

The case I referred to previously, the buyer opened an INAD with the wrong seller. They realised their mistake, the case was closed by the buyer, ebay refused to remove the case from counting towards this metric.