topic Re: Shipping to Germany and Packaging Regulations in Selling

Shipping to Germany and Packaging Regulations

digital*ghost — Mon, 18 Feb 2019 11:15:58 GMT

From memory there are not too many sellers in the forum who ship regularly to Germany, but some new requirements were passed into law on the 1st of January and will come into full force on the 1st of March, which will affect anyone who ships to Germany, even if it's just once a year.

The basic jist of it, is that Germany has introduced some regulations for anyone sending items there in packaging - sellers are required to register with a central packaging agency, pay an annual license fee, and supply information about projected volume of packages, as well as packaging type - the move is to encourage sellers to use recyclable packaging, and by the sounds of it, licensing fees will eventually be based on the sutainability or "eco-friendliness" of the packaging that has been registered.

Currently incoming packages seem to be unhindered by this new regulation, but in a couple of weeks, that may change, with warnings, cease and desist letters, packages being destroyed, and even fines up to 200k Euros become a possibility.

More information here: https://www.gruener-punkt.de/en/services/packaging/german-packaging-act.html?fbclid=IwAR22eaT6QVoiRPMqQnFiCCCpY38Jz1V1sGHbxLCUXM1rlMJXQSRvutDQG7s

Re: Shipping to Germany and Packaging Regulations

kopenhagen5 — Mon, 18 Feb 2019 11:18:45 GMT

So I guess letters excluded ?

Re: Shipping to Germany and Packaging Regulations

digital*ghost — Mon, 18 Feb 2019 11:22:49 GMT

@kopenhagen5 wrote:
So I guess letters excluded ?

Yes, and personal mail as well (eg if you have family there and send them a package, this requirement won't affect that, it's for merchandise and commercial shipments. Sellers require a VAT ID to even be able to register for / get a license - unfortunately I'm not yet clued in on how non EU sellers can get a VAT ID though).

Re: Shipping to Germany and Packaging Regulations

lyndal1838 — Mon, 18 Feb 2019 11:36:39 GMT

Try asking DHL Digi....they handle all the mail out of Germany so would have to have some knowledge of the laws of Deutsch Poste.

Re: Shipping to Germany and Packaging Regulations

digital*ghost — Mon, 18 Feb 2019 12:31:36 GMT

@lyndal1838 wrote:
Try asking DHL Digi....they handle all the mail out of Germany so would have to have some knowledge of the laws of Deutsch Poste.

I send all my regular mail through DHL, and surprisingly the first I heard about this was today, on FB, through a non-eBay seller's group. I'm planning on sending a quick email to my account manager, though.

All of my packaging is recyclable so I should be ok if I can get through all the hoops. (I've already sent a dozen packages there this year, so it will probably be worth it for me, if the license doesn't cost too much).

Re: Shipping to Germany and Packaging Regulations

melbourneclearance — Mon, 18 Feb 2019 21:52:57 GMT

@digital*ghost wrote:
@kopenhagen5 wrote:
So I guess letters excluded ?
Yes, and personal mail as well (eg if you have family there and send them a package, this requirement won't affect that, it's for merchandise and commercial shipments. Sellers require a VAT ID to even be able to register for / get a license - unfortunately I'm not yet clued in on how non EU sellers can get a VAT ID though).

That is why I tick all my overseas shipments as "Gift" and put real name in the shipper's info. I decided "Merchandise" was no good years ago. So sue me.

Re: Shipping to Germany and Packaging Regulations

digital*ghost — Mon, 18 Feb 2019 22:40:15 GMT

@melbourneclearance wrote:
That is why I tick all my overseas shipments as "Gift" and put real name in the shipper's info. I decided "Merchandise" was no good years ago. So sue me.

That's great for you, sucks for people like me who don't even get the option to be complicit in their buyer's tax evasion antics even if they wanted to (which I don't, plus shipping through DHL, it being merchandise is a given so there is no option to mark packages as anything else), and then get raged at by buyers because I won't break the law (cos "other sellers don't have a problem with it").

Re: Shipping to Germany and Packaging Regulations

melbourneclearance — Mon, 18 Feb 2019 23:26:11 GMT

As far as I know, the law in Australia doesn't care whether you are sending a gift or a merchandise unless it is worth a large amount of money that needs you to pay duties/taxes. And German law governs me as much as Saudi law does.

It is always stupid for countries to try to tell people not in their jurisdiction what to do. As I see it, there is no law breaking on my part.

Re: Shipping to Germany and Packaging Regulations

digital*ghost — Tue, 19 Feb 2019 00:17:33 GMT

@melbourneclearance wrote:
As far as I know, the law in Australia doesn't care whether you are sending a gift or a merchandise unless it is worth a large amount of money that needs you to pay duties/taxes. And German law governs me as much as Saudi law does.

German law doesn't need to govern you when they govern what actually makes it into the hands of their citizens. JMHO there is something to be said for being capable of resecting the laws and regulations of countries someone wants to generate profit from, even if they disagree with them.

Saying Australian law doesn't care seems a bit like saying the police don't care if you pay for your items or steal them, as long as you don't steal really high value stuff, though. And like I said, law aside, many sellers aren't even able to mark packages as anything other than merchandise - if the law was arbitrary (which is not the same as inconsequential), those with commercial contracts specifically for sending low value items (like myself) would surely have the chance to choose whether or not we follow it.

You can draw your lines wherever you like, of course, and I'm not blaming other sellers for buyer's behaviour in as much as I am assigning a portion of the blame for the expectations that trigger the behaviour in some.

Re: Shipping to Germany and Packaging Regulations

melbourneclearance — Tue, 19 Feb 2019 00:33:25 GMT

I agree conceptually, dg. With the exception of this part: "Saying Australian law doesn't care seems a bit like saying the police don't care if you pay for your items or steal them, as long as you don't steal really high value stuff, though."

The police do care. I used to run a B&M shop and when we caught a shoplifter no matter how small the value I always closed the shop (with the shoplfter inside), rang the police, and waited for them to come. We must have caught hundreds of them. The cops came every single time, sometimes maybe they took more than half an hour but they came. One tried to challenge it and went to court, the cops came and gave me a subpoena as a witness and a $5 bill to cover transport. I went to court and the shoplifter changed his plea to guilty before the case was heard. The arresting officer was there too.

Re: Shipping to Germany and Packaging Regulations

digital*ghost — Tue, 19 Feb 2019 01:49:59 GMT

I wish it was that cut and dry with online theft, lol.

I suspect a lot of sellers may follow suit, TBH, no idea if that would or could result in any counter-measures, though. It'll be interesting to see if any other countries bring in anything similar, too.

Re: Shipping to Germany and Packaging Regulations

countessalmirena — Tue, 19 Feb 2019 08:51:56 GMT

I hadn't heard of this change - but then it's family in Germany rather than customers for me.

I actually think this is a good initiative, if it can achieve what it sets out to achieve. There are some excellent packaging products available which are recyclable or compostable alternatives to non-recyclable/non-compostable packaging, but they've been slow to get a foothold with the average Australian seller.

A bit of a segue - but I hope that Australia can and will fund recycling plants Australia-wide so that we as a nation can product high-quality fabrics from recycled PET bottles and so on, as well as imitate what's being done in the UK with takeaway coffee cups. As it is, I have to negotiate with Chinese companies if I want to buy fabric made from recycled PET products... I know most of us will have read of the problems being faced within Australia as a result of China no longer taking our recycleable waste. This is an amazingly promising area that requires the funding, the technology, and the will to achieve it.

Re: Shipping to Germany and Packaging Regulations

davewil1964 — Tue, 19 Feb 2019 09:04:43 GMT

The general proposals for recycling now seem to rest on burning waste for energy.

I've yet to see an explanation of how this would be less environmentally damaging than burning coal, but I'm sure the proponents will have one. Or maybe not, otherwise they would have produced it.

As an aside, recently the main Canberra recyclable waste depot was shut down for a couple of weeks, due to significant safety issues. The waste built up until the depot overflowed, so they sent several hundred tonnes of it to landfill, by direction of the 'no waste by 2010' ACT Government.

This depot is privately run and has contracts with many other entities, public and private, in the region.

The joys of privatisation.

Re: Shipping to Germany and Packaging Regulations

digital*ghost — Mon, 25 Mar 2019 01:09:23 GMT

As promised....

I sought clarification on these regulations, and my account manager at DHL told me quite simply that it applies to items that need a commercial clearance, which is not the same as postal clearance direct to a consumer from a retail seller (i.e. it affects business to business transactions).

So, my apologies to anyone who reacted to what I now know is misinformation - with a particular nod to jellybirddesigns who prompted me to research further.

Re: Shipping to Germany and Packaging Regulations

onekiwi0 — Mon, 25 Mar 2019 21:51:50 GMT

so it doesn't affect anyone who gets the irregular sale off ebay from germany. ?

Re: Shipping to Germany and Packaging Regulations

digital*ghost — Mon, 25 Mar 2019 23:59:46 GMT

Apparently not - I basically asked him twice, as I wasn't too sure we were on the same page after my first enquiry, and sent a link to this page along with a couple of quotes ("If you are selling or otherwise putting into circulation goods via your online shop on the German market, you have to arrange for your sales packaging and secondary packaging to participate in a dual system." and "Any commercial retailer (also online retailer) is subject to the obligation to participate in a system.")

After which he replied "[This would] only kick in with items arriving on a commercial clearance; No bearing on Postal clearance; This applies only to items which have the intent to be resold within Germany – Shipments to a private individual won’t have this applied."

I'm guessing maybe there has been confusion over the term "commercial retailer", where for many, anyone who sells can be deemed to be acting in a commercial capacity, but official use of the word "commercial" seems to have a different application. I know my packages aren't classified as commercial shipments, even though the customs declaration is for merchandise. Commercial retailer - I'm guessing - is a more official way of saying "wholesaler".

If my manager was wrong, though, I'll soon find out, as I've now sent several packages to Germany.

Re: Shipping to Germany and Packaging Regulations

bo_45111024 — Tue, 19 Oct 2021 18:50:13 GMT

If you're having issues with that, I'd recommend first of all of course to search on the internet and read: https://www.lizenzero.de/en/blog/german-packaging-act-on-etsy-what-do-online-retailers-have-to-consider-before-shipping/ - also applies to ebay. And second, you can also take help from Lizenzero, I've been with them now for a few months and they are a great help!

Kind Regards,
Kim

Re: Shipping to Germany and Packaging Regulations

k1ooo-slr-sales — Tue, 19 Oct 2021 19:25:10 GMT

this thread pre-dates COVID. International shipping has changed during this worldwide pandemic.

Members should keep this in mind when reading posts on this thread as the information, while correct at time of posting, may now be incorrect

Maybe this thread needs