topic Re: Returns in Selling

Returns

draven281973 — Thu, 28 Feb 2019 23:24:32 GMT

I've got a situation that I'm wondering about.

I purchased a DVD from a UK seller (purchased from them before) that shipped the DVD from the UK. It's region 2, no problem there as my DVD player plays all regions.

It's a german import of an Icelandic movie and this is where the problem lies. No english subtitles. I only found this out when I received the DVD and checked. I rechecked the listing, and it does not mention this anywhere in the listing. I don't think it's asking too much to expect that a UK company, shipping something from the UK, to at least mention on the listing that it doesn't have english subtitles.

So anyways, obviously I would like to return it. And there lies in the problem. I contacted the company who advised it would need to be returned and provided the return address. However, I would have to pay the return shipping, which I've checked will be more than the value of the item. So I would get a refund, and be out of pocket and without the item.

I haven't contacted eBay yet, just wondered if people have experienced anything similiar?

Re: Returns

digital*ghost — Thu, 28 Feb 2019 23:36:55 GMT

Not as expected is not the same as not as described.

If the seller didn't mention subtitles one way or another, there's no reason to assume they would have been a feature. The UK is in the EU, as is Germany and Iceland, this makes the import / export situation a little more unique than importing to Aus from other countries, etc.

It is not a good idea - or fair - to make assumptions about a product, turn those assumptions into expectations, and then view it as the seller's fault, or that they have to be the one out of pocket, just because your assumptions were incorrect.

This is a change of mind purchase, and you are responsible for return shipping if that's what you want to do.

Re: Returns

kopenhagen5 — Thu, 28 Feb 2019 23:51:15 GMT

Assumptions can lead to disappointment.

Communication is the key.

If it was me, I would slap my forehead and think - silly me, I should have asked.

To expect the seller to rectify is way out of line IMO.

Re: Returns

draven281973 — Fri, 01 Mar 2019 00:04:58 GMT

Communication is the key, I agree. As stated, they listed about the region code on the listing, something like doesn't have english subtitles is something they should be listing.

Re: Returns

digital*ghost — Fri, 01 Mar 2019 00:14:40 GMT

@draven281973 wrote:
Communication is the key, I agree. As stated, they listed about the region code on the listing, something like doesn't have english subtitles is something they should be listing.

Sure, but when it's not mentioned at all, you can't blame the seller for any assumptions that get made about a product by others.

Re: Returns

draven281973 — Fri, 01 Mar 2019 00:29:31 GMT

But I can say 'hey, I've bought heaps of items from you before and never had a problem. Isn't it poor form to not mention it on the listing and then for it to cost me more to return it to you since it's useless to me than the value of the item?'.

I assumed but it's pretty smoke and mirrors to leave it off. They mention the region as people have been caught out about it before, this is something just as important to mention.

Re: Returns

digital*ghost — Fri, 01 Mar 2019 00:34:11 GMT

Isn't that just another way of saying "my assumptions in the past turned out to be correct, so I assumed my assumption would be correct this time" ?

And you can hardly blame the seller for the cost of return postage, either - they sell DVDs, they don't run postage services in Aus, or price those services.

Re: Returns

draven281973 — Fri, 01 Mar 2019 00:46:33 GMT

It comes back to it should have been in the listing. If mentioning the region code is important, mentioning the subtitles is important.

I actually read the listing before I purchased to see specifically if it mentioned it. It didn't. Yes I know now, but they should at least update the listing, I messaged them to say that they should mention it, they still don't. You're right, I shouldn't have assumed, but they should also mention it on the listing.

Re: Returns

lyndal1838 — Fri, 01 Mar 2019 01:37:27 GMT

Why should the subtitle status be mentioned?

Region codes are necessary as we all know but why should the seller have to check whether the buyer is a speaker of the language on the DVD?

What is to say that you are not a native of Iceland living in Australia....you would not need subtitles.

Re: Returns

draven281973 — Fri, 01 Mar 2019 02:04:24 GMT

Oh come on lyndal, that's ridiculous.

That is dodgy at best and you know it. The seller has over 700+ negative feedback for the last 12 months, no wonder why. Silly me, a DVD being sent from the UK by a UK seller. Why on earth wouldn't I expect it to have at least english subtitles or be mentioned that it doesn't. Paticularly when on the front cover of the DVD the title of the movie is written in English.

Re: Returns

digital*ghost — Fri, 01 Mar 2019 02:35:39 GMT

@draven281973 wrote:
It comes back to it should have been in the listing. If mentioning the region code is important, mentioning the subtitles is important.

No, it's not a matter of should or shouldn't - it would have been better for that information to be in the listing, but the absence of it being there doesn't automatically mean the seller is liable for your incorrect assumptions.

It's like when a seller lists a t-shirt with just the label size - let's say it's marked as a size L, so that's what they put - "this t-shirt is size L".

They don't put any other info, no measurements or anything like that. A buyer comes along, sees it's an L, thinks, well pretty much all of the L's I've bought before fit well enough, so this will too". They buy it, it arrives, it doesn't fit - they have no basis for blaming the seller for the assumption the t-shirt would meet their needs, or proportions.

A responsible seller would include the measurements (but a case for "not as described" can't be made, and in fact will fail if the seller points it out to eBay), and a responsible buyer would ask for them if they're not there.

Same deal with the DVD.

Re: Returns

draven281973 — Fri, 01 Mar 2019 02:53:46 GMT

It's still a bit of bait and switch.

Why is a seller from an English speaking country selling a DVD where the majority of customers are going to find usless? If the seller was from Germany, I would say 100% my fault entirely. In this case it feels like being totally mislead over the sale and funnily enough they've had negative feedback given by others over the same thing. Selling Foreign language DVD's in English speaking regions (with English the main language) that don't have English subtitles.

It's not the same thing as the size of a t shirt.

Re: Returns

lyndal1838 — Fri, 01 Mar 2019 03:00:31 GMT

There you have it.....the seller has negative feedback for the same "offence" but you took no notice of it.

Re: Returns

draven281973 — Fri, 01 Mar 2019 03:05:25 GMT

Yes lyndal, I only noticed after the fact after I went through the pages of feedback and found it on page 4 or 5.

These sellers with their '99%' positive feedback with over 700 negs.... eBay loves their power sellers and their sheer volumes.

Re: Returns

digital*ghost — Fri, 01 Mar 2019 03:16:07 GMT

@draven281973 wrote:
It's still a bit of bait and switch.

Why is a seller from an English speaking country selling a DVD where the majority of customers are going to find usless? If the seller was from Germany, I would say 100% my fault entirely. In this case it feels like being totally mislead over the sale and funnily enough they've had negative feedback given by others over the same thing. Selling Foreign language DVD's in English speaking regions (with English the main language) that don't have English subtitles.

It's not the same thing as the size of a t shirt.

You are just explaining what fueled your assumptions, which doesn't excuse them.

Re: Returns

draven281973 — Fri, 01 Mar 2019 03:21:28 GMT

Well to me saying 'too bad' doesn't excuse a seller's dodgy business practices, I guess I'll have to be just as dodgy back to them.

Re: Returns

lyndal1838 — Fri, 01 Mar 2019 03:29:03 GMT

How is it bait and switch? The seller has not said there were subtitles and then sent a DVD without subtitles.

It is more a sin by omission. But you must bear some blame for not checkig if there was no mention of subtitles.

Re: Returns

digital*ghost — Fri, 01 Mar 2019 03:31:02 GMT

@draven281973 wrote:
Well to me saying 'too bad' doesn't excuse a seller's dodgy business practices, I guess I'll have to be just as dodgy back to them.

You are missing the point entirely - the information was important to you, but that doesn't make it important for the majority of the people who would be buying it.

You can't label a business as dodgy just because you didn't have enough information to make a good purchase decision and regret making it without that information, after finding out you might actually have to take some responsibility for that decision.

The business in in the UK / EU, for goodness sake - do you know how many people in the EU immigrate to neighbouring countries, and / or speak multiple languages? English is the primary language spoken in the UK, doesn't mean anything.

If you are fully aware that a film is in a foreign language, I would think checking to make sure if the version of the film you are buying is something you can actually watch, would be pretty important thing to do.

And as for that second part - if that's your go to response, you were already dodgy.

Re: Returns

best.buys — Fri, 01 Mar 2019 04:11:41 GMT

I sell a lot of second hand dvd's still and run into issues with buyers once in a while who expect the listing to have all sorts of extras listed after they buy it - what features, what picture sizes, modes, subtitles, year made etc. Most ask if they have it before they buy fortunately. Can you imagine how long it would take to write that on all of them.

Have been givien red dots before when buyers dont like a movie - ebay removes them fortunately.
also interesting when you get a message asking if I think they will enjoy it - that always gives me a chuckle.
recently had someone ask for more pics of a dvd [already had a real photo] - was so tempted to send pics of the dvd near the pool, and at the shops, or chatting to a cd.

Re: Returns

davewil1964 — Fri, 01 Mar 2019 06:01:07 GMT

@draven281973 wrote:
Communication is the key, I agree. As stated, they listed about the region code on the listing, something like doesn't have english subtitles is something they should be listing.

If it's a German release of an Icelandic film, I would be asking, pre-purchase, whether there were sub-titles.

It is not up to the seller to include any or all of the non-information buyers might possibly want.

I sell books. I don't include in my listings that they aren't DVDs, or ebooks, or audiobooks, or kitchen sinks.

If somebody needs clarification (rare, and usually because they didn't read the description) then they can ask. If they are satisfied with the answer, they can then purchase.

If they purchase, receive and then complain that the paperback they bought is, in fact, a paperback, that is their problem and responsibility, not mine.