topic Re: How honest has Australia Post been regarding international parcels? in Selling

How honest has Australia Post been regarding international parcels?

padraicpaul91 — Sat, 09 May 2020 01:41:10 GMT

For the past three weeks I have been regularly been in contact with AP about the situation. When I do the usual response has been " please be patient, we are doing our best". My reponse to this has been " I know this but please tell us the actual situation".

Now it appears the actual situation is worse than AP was prepared to admit. That may help explain why their facebook page has stopped responding to my queries. I must admit the most recent reponse from AP was they don't know what is happening.

Case in point: A parcel destined for Germany was tracked as having departed on March 23rd. This morning, this became 'departed as sea mail on May 8th'.

I am one that can deal with adverse situations and make plans accordingly, as long as I know the real situation. But this lack of honesty has crushed the credibility of Australia Post.

Re: How honest has Australia Post been regarding international parcels?

gutterpunkz05 — Sat, 09 May 2020 01:57:41 GMT

we are all dealing with strange and unexpected scenarios at the moment, AP and their contractors included. Domestic shipping is bad enough, but International logistics must be an absolute nightmare at this time.

Hardly think anyones reputation is crushed or indeed tarnished under these circumstances.

Re: How honest has Australia Post been regarding international parcels?

padraicpaul91 — Sat, 09 May 2020 02:05:43 GMT

No harm in being honest unless perceived reputation is more important.

Re: How honest has Australia Post been regarding international parcels?

gutterpunkz05 — Sat, 09 May 2020 02:14:40 GMT

Plenty of people, and presumably freight (including post), were booked on flights that never left the ground

Re: How honest has Australia Post been regarding international parcels?

digital*ghost — Sat, 09 May 2020 02:32:41 GMT

I've sent a few parcels OS by special request, since I suspended international shipping on the 6th of April, but had some regulars that really wanted some items and were ok with waiting 8 weeks (which is the timeframe I quoted). Looking at the tracking, only one has had an update since being lodged, with one having no updates for just over 3 weeks. << that's my worried face, not my why is this happening face lol

Whether Aus Post can be considered dishonest (with regards to delivery timeframes) depends on how you interpret or apply their announcements, but also (just in terms of delays) whether one can be considered to be dishonest by making predictions that turn out to be incorrect - they are advising of delays of a few weeks, and TBH I did interpret this as a total, i.e. delays accrued over the journey of the package, but with the tracking of the packages above, so far it's applied to the actual processing and dispatch within Aus, and I'm sure further delays will come.

I do think they should be making it clearer that there's a large backlog and many shipments are going by sea mail. I mean, most of the regulars or frequent senders can either get this info, or at least intuit it from experiences, but your average casual sender could just as easily look up info on the website and advise someone it'll take 6 weeks when it could take 12.

At any rate, I don't think I'll be doing any more special request orders and send through AP, since with DHL they were all still leaving the country before the 2 week mark and arriving in about 6 weeks, a couple taking 7-ish.

Re: How honest has Australia Post been regarding international parcels?

padraicpaul91 — Sat, 09 May 2020 03:00:10 GMT

Yeah, it seems honesty is word subject to interpretation. How about transparency?

I check tracking status most days. The one I mentioned had an update that came through this morning. It was dated April 30th. So, I am wondering whether it was back dated and / or withheld until the new delivery announcements. Or that the tracking system has delays of 9 days. I reckon Australia Post made this decision re sea mail some time ago and kept quiet.

With my international customers, I write to each, telling them what appears to be the case. I offer to cancel or offer express as an alternative. Most have been willing to wait. I had been out by only 5 business days compared to the new announcement. I now only offer express, which will kill most international sales.

I was joking with a colleague just last week that sea mail might be quicker. Should have followed my gut and made express the only option sooner.

Re: How honest has Australia Post been regarding international parcels?

gutterpunkz05 — Sat, 09 May 2020 03:30:41 GMT

Clarity and a perefect world, we can all dream I suppose.

Can anyone tell me what is the protocol once an item has cleared customs and is ready for export shipment, and the means of exporting is then cancelled. I can only assume that the item would remain under a bulk custom seal until an alternative means of export is found.

Re: How honest has Australia Post been regarding international parcels?

digital*ghost — Sat, 09 May 2020 03:46:04 GMT

@padraicpaul91 wrote:
Yeah, it seems honesty is word subject to interpretation. How about transparency?

When this situation was (for me) still mostly a matter of laughing at memes made about people hoarding toilet paper, one thing kept popping into my head (and I wasn't the only one, because I saw many others quoting it like the pop-culture-based pseudo-philosophers we all are ).

Edwards : Why the big secret? People are smart. They can handle it.

Kay : A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it.

Yah, sure, they're talking about aliens, but it's a sentiment that holds up in a lot of situations.

All of which is a long-winded way of saying I know there's no excuse for outright deception that causes serious problems for people, but I have some empathy for them (despite a long history I have of being critical) - Aus Post are currently faced with a situation that is changing rapidly, potentially daily, and an answer of "I don't know" isn't acceptable to the vast majority of people, that's the kind of answer that results in immediate requests for refunds / compensation. They might not be doing things perfectly, but reassuring and placating people for long enough that individual issues resolve is probably avoiding large scale financial issues for them.

One could see it as deception for monetary gain or benefit, sure, but another could see it as treading turbulent water to stay afloat. (I'm not saying it's right, per se, just that I kinda find it understandable when so much is unpredictable).

Re: How honest has Australia Post been regarding international parcels?

tazzieterror — Sat, 09 May 2020 03:49:43 GMT

@padraicpaul91 wrote:
No harm in being honest unless perceived reputation is more important.

Glad you appreciate honestly. My honest opinion is that in mid-late March you'd have to be daft to have expected hassle-free international shipping given the situation at the time. Freight has been a logistical quagmire for several months now and Aus. Post's tracking updates were suffering at least as early as February.

I don't believe AP have set out to deceive anyone - just like pretty much every other business and organisation, they've been caught out by an unprecedented situation, and have faced the added challenge of their services being in significantly higher demand at the same time that international air travel has dried up with most flights being grounded.

While I sympathise with those who have to ship internationally, characterising AP as decpetive is hyperbole.

Re: How honest has Australia Post been regarding international parcels?

padraicpaul91 — Sat, 09 May 2020 04:23:02 GMT

I agree with much of what you say, except your conclusions. I don't see Australia Post as acting to preserve income, more to reduce the apparent darkness of the situation. But, it is also that due to their tardy announcements, I am exposed to about $2000 in refunds. A little more openess on their part may well have reduced that exposure and fewer unhappy customers. That hurts.

Re: How honest has Australia Post been regarding international parcels?

curraone — Sat, 09 May 2020 04:49:02 GMT

I think that Aust Post are doing the best they can - they have put on extra staff, they have chartered planes, etc. The international situation is not their fault. They update their page pretty regularly citing delays, and for example, I can see that Germany is now only be sea mail. (I don't know how long that has been the case, because I don't post to Germany).

If people are giving you grief about overdue items, I would say that they are being unrealistic.

Re: How honest has Australia Post been regarding international parcels?

padraicpaul91 — Sat, 09 May 2020 04:54:36 GMT

I did not use the word deceptive. I even back tracked on the word honest and offered transparent. I don't want to be part of a post truth world.

I do understand the great challenges facing those who move stuff.

The other side of my business is importing products from France but chose not to proceed with an order in late February for these very reasons, as well as the low dollar and a spike in freight costs.

My ebay sales had been delivered in a timely manner until early April, albiet slower. I have been warning customers of late delivery and unreliable tracking. Things hit the wall for me in April, except for the UK. But I find it difficult to act on just my gut feeling when up to date announcements would help, both my business and to placate customers.

Re: How honest has Australia Post been regarding international parcels?

padraicpaul91 — Sat, 09 May 2020 04:59:40 GMT

I don't blame AP for the situation, just for some of their actions. The announcement of sea mail seems to have been post dated. And why the hell would a parcel marked as having left Australia by air in March now be placed on a ship late April?

Re: How honest has Australia Post been regarding international parcels?

curraone — Sat, 09 May 2020 05:02:29 GMT

Aust Post last update was 8 May - I don't know how much more updated you want to be:

International delivery information 8 May 2020

Australia Post is experiencing international delivery delays in all destinations due to limited airline capacity and government restrictions as a result of COVID-19. Australia Post is working with partner airlines and other postal operators to move items as quickly as possible and clear backlog.

Please note: Australia Post has suspended its “Economy Air” international delivery service for parcels to all countries effective 3 April and until further notice.

Parcel service impacts

We're making every effort to meet delivery times, however, the changing nature of both airlinehaul capacity and delivery services in destination countries, regions and territories mean that these delivery estimates should be used as a guide only. Further delivery delays will occur with countries/cities in lockdown.

Express service will continue to receive priority despatch for all locations where air capacity is available. Please visit this page for suspension of services for this product to select countries. Signature on delivery for this service impacted in most destinations.

Standard service delivery timeframes will vary due to air capacity and alternative routing to seamail of parcels due to COVID-19. We anticipate that the changes will impact all countries where services are not suspended. Please visit this page for suspension of service for certain countries.

Economy service is fully suspended due to flight cancellations, airport closures and the measures implemented to limit and reduce the spread of COVID-19.

Please leave a minimum of 10 business days after the estimated delivery date below to raise queries on items travelling via air and 30 business days after the estimated delivery date for items travelling via sea.

For items sent between 25th March and 30th April, additional delivery delays on top of the below have occurred. We are working hard to clear all backlog and deliver your items as soon as possible. Thank you for your patience.

https://auspost.com.au/about-us/news-media/important-updates/coronavirus/coronavirus-international-updates#international

Re: How honest has Australia Post been regarding international parcels?

digital*ghost — Sat, 09 May 2020 05:14:19 GMT

@padraicpaul91 wrote:
I agree with much of what you say, except your conclusions. I don't see Australia Post as acting to preserve income, more to reduce the apparent darkness of the situation. But, it is also that due to their tardy announcements, I am exposed to about $2000 in refunds. A little more openess on their part may well have reduced that exposure and fewer unhappy customers. That hurts.

Part of the problem is that it's not possible to make retroactive predictions - the reason I stopped international shipping a month ago (and honestly, I should have acted sooner but I had my excuses, lol), was because I could see how utterly unpredicatble the situation was. If one day Aus Post say "there may be delays of up to two weeks", that can really only be based on the previous weeks and can't really be applied to the future - it's a guess, but one that's made in such a highly volatile situation that it's not worth much.

This whole thing feels like it's been happening for a very long time, but in real terms, it's been about 6-7 weeks since things started to get in the shape they are now (I say that because I took a 1 week holiday in the middle of March (re-opend on the 21st), and it was only about half way through that holiday I started to think I'd made a huge mistake, as in I thought I might have no income to re-open to and that losing an extra week's worth of revenue before I had to shut down for an uknown amount of time could have been devastating - at the start of that holiday, I was concerned, but not literally fearing for my future).

That's important, because that is nowhere near enough time to gauge the full extent of the the international postage delays and make any kind of accurate prediction for both current and future postage times. By the time an accurate predicion of international postage time could be made for stuff sent 3-4 weeks ago can be made, it's no longer an accurate prediction for stuff being sent in the now, especially when accounting for other countries processes etc are just as volatile. Things are starting to take shape of course, so if I was personally at the helm of AP, the announcements would include some retroactive info, something people could just look up and get a rough guide to how things shipped between x & x date are progressing. I'd prefer they now erred on the side of caution and over-estimated delivery times, as well, in as much as that is possible.

Re: How honest has Australia Post been regarding international parcels?

south.coffee — Sat, 09 May 2020 05:41:19 GMT

If you need an explanation on recent global air freight issues a Youtube video explains delays which effect Australia Post and every other postal service around the world.

Type the title into Youtube or Google search:

Air Cargo's Coronavirus Problem

Re: How honest has Australia Post been regarding international parcels?

padraicpaul91 — Sat, 09 May 2020 06:05:17 GMT

I ummed and r'd about international postage for much the same time as you. But since they make up half my turnover on ebay, I kept going. Most customers have been accepting of the situation.

Whilst I understand the difficulty of making forward projections, I have been doing this with customers. I checked progress of parcels in transit and noted the lengthening times. I would then tell customers my estimate: that the delay would be around twice the AP estimate or worse, and it was reasonably accurate. I reckon AP could do the same.

But I take exception to the sea mail situation. They were planning this. Even though a parcel was marked as in air transit, it was actually in a small mountain, just waiting somewhere in Melbourne for a boat. It's AP estimated delivery date was, coincidentally, the back dated tracking advice of it being placed on a ship. Near seven weeks lost.

But even any new estimate means little. My freight forwarder would always quote 5 weeks from Marseille. But that was time on the water, moving. The real time, wharf to wharf was always 10 to 12 weeks. I think 3 months and counting is closer to the truth.

Re: How honest has Australia Post been regarding international parcels?

south.coffee — Sat, 09 May 2020 06:52:23 GMT

I would suspect the sea freight option was caused by two factors, air freight cost doubling out of Australia and availability of space. Australia Post would of taken a big hit and would lose a ton of money and sea freight actually became cost effective and 'timely.'

Our air freight rate from Guangzhou to Sydney has doubled and taking 14-21 days. We moved to sea freight at 1/6 the price and 35 days.

Meanwhile, Chinese suppliers moved from air freight to rail freight ex Trans Siberia Railway to Europe !

Re: How honest has Australia Post been regarding international parcels?

chameleon54 — Sat, 09 May 2020 07:02:42 GMT

@padraicpaul91 wrote:
I agree with much of what you say, except your conclusions. I don't see Australia Post as acting to preserve income, more to reduce the apparent darkness of the situation. But, it is also that due to their tardy announcements, I am exposed to about $2000 in refunds. A little more openess on their part may well have reduced that exposure and fewer unhappy customers. That hurts.

I,m with padraicpaul91 on this one. Yes the disruptions are totally out of Australia Posts control and yes they are probably struggling along trying to do the best they can, BUT had they been more open and honest with customers about delays it could have saved a lot of people a lot of expense and worry.

I,m lucky in that our local PO is a reasonably large regional centre and the boss has her finger on the pulse pretty well. She told me " on the quiet " more than a month ago that items that where charged at air mail rates where being sent by sea. ( I noted this in several posts on the forums ) She also told me that many international customs offices where having staffing issues due to COVID and the mail was simply not getting processed in many international customs centres.

Following her advice I cancelled the international postage option on my main selling account and have largely been insulated from the worst effects of the international postage chaos. As a result my sales are currently down around 20%, but I,m sleeping much better than I otherwise would.

Had Australia Post been more forthcoming in their public announcements, many other sellers could have made better informed decisions on whether to continue with international sales, accepting or rejecting the much higher risk of Item not received claims.

Re: How honest has Australia Post been regarding international parcels?

chameleon54 — Sat, 09 May 2020 07:12:06 GMT

@south.coffee wrote:
I would suspect the sea freight option was caused by two factors, air freight cost doubling out of Australia and availability of space. Australia Post would of taken a big hit and would lose a ton of money and sea freight actually became cost effective and 'timely.'

Our air freight rate from Guangzhou to Sydney has doubled and taking 14-21 days. We moved to sea freight at 1/6 the price and 35 days.

Meanwhile, Chinese suppliers moved from air freight to rail freight ex Trans Siberia Railway to Europe !

I think everyone here is pretty understanding about Australia Posts difficulty with continuing air mail services to all countries etc. The problem is, THEY DIDNT TELL EVERYONE THAT !!!. They where still charging air mail prices for items that THEY KNEW would be sent by sea mail.

I,m not one to jump on the ACCC reporting bandwagon every time something goes wrong, but this is clearly a major breach of Australia's fair trade acts. ie. Charging us for an Air mail service, but delivering a sea mail service. I,m still not advocating we all lodge complaints with the ACCC. but I do think Australia Post should have at least been honest about what services it was providing for the fee charged. People can then say yes or no to the service and cost in an informed way.