topic Re: Return requested when they haven't received the item? in Selling

Return requested when they haven't received the item?

everard6920 — Fri, 24 Jul 2020 07:54:30 GMT

My brain is fried after a really long day, so please bear with me.

I posted an item today and the buyer has requested a return citing that they found a better item.

The item was sent in a trackable envelope (small size).

I accept free change of mind returns, the entire transaction is under $10 so it's more the principle, but ...

If I click "accept the return and print a label", am I right in assuming it'll only allow me to print a package label (which is minimum $8.65?)

So therefore ... I should just refund the buyer, correct?

Thanks in advance.

Re: Return requested when they haven't received the item?

yc_pty_ltd — Fri, 24 Jul 2020 07:59:59 GMT

I cannot see how finding better item is a reason for a return?

Re: Return requested when they haven't received the item?

tazzieterror — Fri, 24 Jul 2020 08:10:02 GMT

Is it a proper return request or has the buyer just sent you a message?

EDIT: Nevermind, it obviously is a return request if you have the option to generate a label. Who pays the postage on a change of mind request?

Re: Return requested when they haven't received the item?

everard6920 — Fri, 24 Jul 2020 08:12:47 GMT

@tazzieterror wrote:
Is it a proper return request or has the buyer just sent you a message?

EDIT: Nevermind, it obviously is a return request if you have the option to generate a label. Who pays the postage on a change of mind request?

I do, which is why I don't think I should click on "accept return and print a label", because there is no option to request that they send it back via a trackable envelope like I sent it in, right? If I can only print a package label ($8.65), I won't bother getting them to send it back (although I hate that idea on principle).

I've actually never had a return request before.

Re: Return requested when they haven't received the item?

11dustyattic — Fri, 24 Jul 2020 08:24:53 GMT

I have to ask the question. Why do you except change of mind returns? And doesn't the buyer pay for a change of mind return? You really are opening yourself up to scammers, probably one in action here by the sound of it. Who opens a return the same day it's posted? The current scammers are highly skilled, they know the system, how to find loopholes or seller vulnerabilities (example return postage not worth paying so they get refunded instead). Isn't that making it a little easy for them. I would pay the package label and make them return it before being refunded

Re: Return requested when they haven't received the item?

everard6920 — Fri, 24 Jul 2020 08:29:52 GMT

@11dustyattic wrote:
I have to ask the question. Why do you except change of mind returns? And doesn't the buyer pay for a change of mind return? You really are opening yourself up to scammers, probably one in action here by the sound of it. Who opens a return the same day it's posted? The current scammers are highly skilled, they know the system, how to find loopholes or seller vulnerabilities (example return postage not worth paying so they get refunded instead). Isn't that making it a little easy for them. I would pay the package label and make them return it before being refunded

Because accepting free change of mind returns is better than having "scammers" declare item not described to avoid paying return postage when it's actually a change of mind.

Basically, my thought process is that scammers gonna scam, so ... why open myself up to false item not as described defects? Interested to hear other sellers thoughts on this, though ... especially anyone who stocks any low value items as this one is.

Thinking I'll print the damn label and get it back out of principle, but just wondering if there is another way to make them send it back via the same method (trackable letter).

Re: Return requested when they haven't received the item?

11dustyattic — Fri, 24 Jul 2020 08:49:27 GMT

@everard6920 wrote:
@11dustyattic wrote:
I have to ask the question. Why do you except change of mind returns? And doesn't the buyer pay for a change of mind return? You really are opening yourself up to scammers, probably one in action here by the sound of it. Who opens a return the same day it's posted? The current scammers are highly skilled, they know the system, how to find loopholes or seller vulnerabilities (example return postage not worth paying so they get refunded instead). Isn't that making it a little easy for them. I would pay the package label and make them return it before being refunded
Because accepting free change of mind returns is better than having "scammers" declare item not described to avoid paying return postage when it's actually a change of mind.

Basically, my thought process is that scammers gonna scam, so ... why open myself up to false item not as described defects? Interested to hear other sellers thoughts on this, though ... especially anyone who stocks any low value items as this one is.

Thinking I'll print the damn label and get it back out of principle, but just wondering if there is another way to make them send it back via the same method (trackable letter).

Okay fair enough, you're aware which is the main thing. Your question regarding return label for tracked envelope is a good question. I think they only print package labels. I've wondered the same myself because I use tracked envelopes quite often

Re: Return requested when they haven't received the item?

digital*ghost — Fri, 24 Jul 2020 08:59:04 GMT

I'd message the buyer and say I'm happy to refund on return, but since it's still in transit, I can't action anything on the request just yet - ask them to RTS the package, and hopefully they will be happy to follow through with that.

I would be reluctant to accept or refund before they've even received - as then they can just keep the item for free, or cost you postage unnecessarily, and their actions were ignorant and careless at best, intentional at worst.

Re: Return requested when they haven't received the item?

11dustyattic — Fri, 24 Jul 2020 09:05:53 GMT

@digital*ghost wrote:
I'd message the buyer and say I'm happy to refund on return, but since it's still in transit, I can't action anything on the request just yet - ask them to RTS the package, and hopefully they will be happy to follow through with that.

I would be reluctant to accept or refund before they've even received - as then they can just keep the item for free, or cost you postage unnecessarily, and their actions were ignorant and careless at best, intentional at worst.

I don't think Australia Post return packages for free anymore. Not 100% sure. I know they used to but because the service was being abused, postage has to be paid now. That's my understanding anyway

Re: Return requested when they haven't received the item?

11dustyattic — Fri, 24 Jul 2020 09:07:55 GMT

Unless it's for someone not at that address anymore

Re: Return requested when they haven't received the item?

digital*ghost — Fri, 24 Jul 2020 09:08:04 GMT

Sometimes, but not for letters, and with parcels it depends on the receiving PO whether return postage is applied.

Re: Return requested when they haven't received the item?

eol-products — Fri, 24 Jul 2020 09:36:19 GMT

I think it depends on who you speak to.

Re: Return requested when they haven't received the item?

everard6920 — Fri, 24 Jul 2020 10:36:53 GMT

@digital*ghost wrote:
I'd message the buyer and say I'm happy to refund on return, but since it's still in transit, I can't action anything on the request just yet - ask them to RTS the package, and hopefully they will be happy to follow through with that.

I would be reluctant to accept or refund before they've even received - as then they can just keep the item for free, or cost you postage unnecessarily, and their actions were ignorant and careless at best, intentional at worst.

I contacted AP and they are going to attempt to have the item redirected back to me (and for anyone wondering, they're doing that for free). So, I sent the buyer the above message and said that my course of action will depend on whether or not the redirection is successful, and that I'd be in touch when I hear from AP.

If it's delivered to the buyer, I'll ask them to RTS and refund, I suppose. Thanks for the advice.

On an entirely different note, I've just had someone else ask me if I would drive to their house 30km away tomorrow morning to deliver a $20 item ... what even IS today ...

Re: Return requested when they haven't received the item?

minimum_56 — Fri, 24 Jul 2020 11:06:12 GMT

Don't forget that if the buyer paid you via Paypal - if & when you refund the sale - the Paypal fees won't be refunded to you.
The buyer will receive a full refund - but you'll be 'out of pocket' for the Paypal fees plus the postage costs for their 'change of mind' return.

Re: Return requested when they haven't received the item?

wendymac54 — Fri, 24 Jul 2020 11:35:55 GMT

The only time you the seller have to pay return postage is if the item is faulty,for change of mind or finding something better they pay return postage.

Re: Return requested when they haven't received the item?

everard6920 — Fri, 24 Jul 2020 11:48:36 GMT

@wendymac54 wrote:
The only time you the seller have to pay return postage is if the item is faulty,for change of mind or finding something better they pay return postage.

False. As a seller, you can elect to have FREE change of mind returns, which means they can change their mind and return it FREE of charge (the seller pays postage).

However, it appears that he does not get the original postage amount back, because the "estimated refund amount" shown on the return is only the item amount.

Re: Return requested when they haven't received the item?

oz-e-seller — Sat, 25 Jul 2020 10:08:57 GMT

Australia Post told me trackable envelopes are for letters only, not items. How are you sending items in them?

Re: Return requested when they haven't received the item?

digital*ghost — Sat, 25 Jul 2020 10:24:04 GMT

A lot of Aus Post staff don't have the best understanding of AP's T&Cs - which is a reflection on Aus Post and how they disseminate info. Or don't, more to the point.

The small ones are document only, not exceeding 5mm thick and must be flexible.

The medium ones are designed to be large letters (so up to 20mm thick), but they also want them to be flexible, which is why they made them from flimsy paper I expect, and just have on the back: Do not use this envelope to send rigid items such as keys and USBs as sending these items may result in loss or damage, delays in delivery and / or missing tracking scans

The large ones do not have that disclaimer (or any other explicit item restriction) on them.

Re: Return requested when they haven't received the item?

joztamps — Sat, 25 Jul 2020 12:07:25 GMT

@digital*ghost wrote:
A lot of Aus Post staff don't have the best understanding of AP's T&Cs - which is a reflection on Aus Post and how they disseminate info. Or don't, more to the point.

The small ones are document only, not exceeding 5mm thick and must be flexible.

The medium ones are designed to be large letters (so up to 20mm thick), but they also want them to be flexible, which is why they made them from flimsy paper I expect, and just have on the back: Do not use this envelope to send rigid items such as keys and USBs as sending these items may result in loss or damage, delays in delivery and / or missing tracking scans

The large ones do not have that disclaimer (or any other explicit item restriction) on them.

Or on the franchisees who are under pretty intense economic pressure and don't divert any more time or expense to non-profitable activities than is strictly necessary.

Re: Return requested when they haven't received the item?

digital*ghost — Sat, 25 Jul 2020 13:14:37 GMT

@joztamps wrote:

Or on the franchisees who are under pretty intense economic pressure and don't divert any more time or expense to non-profitable activities than is strictly necessary.

Maybe, but what amounts to "we're not making enough money to even find out what the rules are, let alone follow them" wouldn't hold up in court (which I say figuritively, as I don't have a huge amount of empathy for wilful ignorance, but it stands literally, as well).