topic Re: Removal of "Counterfeit Listing" that isnt counterfeit + doesnt breach ebay policy - in Selling

Removal of "Counterfeit Listing" that isnt counterfeit + doesnt breach ebay policy - but NO APPEAL?

essential_74 — Wed, 12 Aug 2020 12:00:39 GMT

So... I had a listing removed the other week for violating ebay's counterfeit policy.

I have checked thoroughly and this item doesn't breach any of the policy bullet points that were highlighted by the ebay notification email sent top me (it was listed as unbranded, doesnt use any brand names or logos, all photos are my own etc etc)

Also, there are HUNDREDS of other listings on eBay selling the exact same product (it is a generic, mass produced product)

[btw, for the TLDR version, my actual question is highlighted at the bottom haha]

I figured I must have just used a certain 'term' or something in my listing so decided to jump on with the customer support online chat and find out how to correct the issue and list it so that I am in compliance with policy, like ALL the other sellers selling the same product.
To my amazement I was completely stonewalled for nearly 3 hours!

And faced some of the most beligerant, unhelpful customer service reps I have encountered in recent years... how I didnt end up swearing at them I don't know...

Bottom line:

They woudnt initially tell me anything about the reason for removal except that it had breached policy

Eventually they did disclose the following:

They had received a complaint

They had reviewed my item and due to certain risk factors had deemed my item to be couterfeit

But they refused to say how they came to that conclusion or what policy had been breached

They also stated that if I attept to relist, I will have my account suspended (so obviousy I now wont relist that item as I cant risk that happening, but my issue is that I have a ton of stock piled up here and this is the only income me and my kids survive on... incidentally, that was another plea that was totally lost on the robotic service reps)

Where it became really frustrating was the fact that they wouldnt tell me how all the other hundreds of listings on ebay were okay to remain (and some I know have been there for many many months), or what the difference was between our listings so I could ammend mine so that it complied

They also wouldnt accept the suggestion that if mine was deemed counterfeit, then so must all the others be counterfeit (as they are identical).

And round in circles we went.

This was a real case of being told "up is down" and "black is white"

The frustration was intense

My biggest problem is that I now have absolutely no recourse

No right of reply to this complaint

Not allowed to mount any defence

No appeal process
So I stand to lose thousands of dollars... and I cannot in anyway handle that... not this year!

All while thousands of these exact same items are sold every day on ebay
And I'm not allowed to
And my stock sits here, with my post pandemic income plan falling apart in front of me for a reason that makes no sense and is blatantly obvious to the most simple minded person that this is completely unfair

MY QUESTION:
Is there ANYTHING I can do to appeal a counterfeit removal when it is so blatantly unfair?

(besides talk to customer service reps again as they were in unison with their lack of help or willingness to even answer simple questions... honestly, you would have thought I had stumbled in to Area 51, not ebay! 😂)

My guess is probably not... but this is a massive issue for me (rent, food, kids etc as I'm a single parent), so I have to ask...

I'm 100% happy to work withing the bounds of policy and to correct a listing if I have made a mistake, but surely that policy has to be applied equally across all sellers?!
or is that just naive?

Sorry for the long post!
Thanks in advance for any advice

Re: Removal of "Counterfeit Listing" that isnt counterfeit + doesnt breach ebay policy -

djavusydney — Wed, 12 Aug 2020 12:10:35 GMT

If you don't mind sharing what's the exact title and description you use in the listing?

Re: Removal of "Counterfeit Listing" that isnt counterfeit + doesnt breach ebay policy -

essential_74 — Wed, 12 Aug 2020 12:19:07 GMT

Sure...

"For PS4 | Brand New White Wireless Controller | inc Charge Cable"

I spent a great deal of time before listing these, comparing to other sellers, to make sure I was following their lead as I know they have been selling hundreds

I even removed a couple of words and changed the 'order of phrases' as I felt they were a little misleading, yet they are still selling 🤷🏻‍♂️

Is it cynical to suggest that a competitor reported the listing?

Re: Removal of "Counterfeit Listing" that isnt counterfeit + doesnt breach ebay policy -

djavusydney — Wed, 12 Aug 2020 12:21:51 GMT

Thanks. Your title seems very generic thus no way to have claim against it from that title alone - do you happen to use Sony PS4 controller pictures?

Re: Removal of "Counterfeit Listing" that isnt counterfeit + doesnt breach ebay policy -

essential_74 — Wed, 12 Aug 2020 12:25:42 GMT

Nope
All photos were taken of the actual product, by me!

Other sellers use terms like "DualShock" in their listings which I think IS a trademadrked term, so I removed that...

This is why it is so frustrating... I've gone over and above to comply and I've been screwed at the first hurdle with zero recourse

I was thinking about going to the ACCC, but I'm guessing that won't achieve much 🤷🏻‍♂️

Re: Removal of "Counterfeit Listing" that isnt counterfeit + doesnt breach ebay policy -

djavusydney — Wed, 12 Aug 2020 12:58:30 GMT

Ok. another thing I can think of is the controller you sell may have the built similar to Sony PS4 ones (even an exact copy, without the logo), thus even it's unbranded, it's somewhat a copyright issue.

Re: Removal of "Counterfeit Listing" that isnt counterfeit + doesnt breach ebay policy -

essential_74 — Wed, 12 Aug 2020 13:14:13 GMT

Which I could accept... if there were hundreds of those already on eBay
The service reps tried to tell me that’s because there are new listings every day and they can’t keep up, but some of these sellers/listings I have been tracking since the end of last year, so that excuse doesn’t hold

My point is, you’re either allowed to sell these on eBay or you’re not
What is def not okay is that I’m not allowed and everyone else is free to carry on 🤷🏻‍♂️

It’s an indefensible position for eBay to take... which they have taken by making it impossible for me to take any action to resolve the problem (and I still don’t know what the problem is?! 🤦🏻‍♂️😂)

Re: Removal of "Counterfeit Listing" that isnt counterfeit + doesnt breach ebay policy -

essential_74 — Wed, 12 Aug 2020 13:16:57 GMT

*** that should have read “ if there weren’t hundreds of those already on eBay”
Can’t edit the post for some reason 🤷🏻‍♂️

Re: Removal of "Counterfeit Listing" that isnt counterfeit + doesnt breach ebay policy -

11dustyattic — Wed, 12 Aug 2020 13:50:16 GMT

@essential_74 wrote:
Sure...

"For PS4 | Brand New White Wireless Controller | inc Charge Cable"

I spent a great deal of time before listing these, comparing to other sellers, to make sure I was following their lead as I know they have been selling hundreds
I even removed a couple of words and changed the 'order of phrases' as I felt they were a little misleading, yet they are still selling 🤷🏻‍♂️

Is it cynical to suggest that a competitor reported the listing?

I'm a bit in the middle on this one. Your title could imply it's a genuine controller, to a less experienced/new buyer, since you begin the title with "For PS4". If I were listing such a controller, I would state in the title generic or non genuine, to be absolutely clear. But I'm not saying they shouldn't be sold, or allowed to be sold, just that buyers don't always read the description properly. Either way, you have a problem moving forward. Is there another platform you can sell them on?

On the note of why your listing was removed and others remain, it would quite simply be because your competition reported you (which annoys the bleep out of me. Bleeped myself there haha). Typical waste of time trying to communicate with them. I can understand your frustration

Re: Removal of "Counterfeit Listing" that isnt counterfeit + doesnt breach ebay policy -

gutterpunkz05 — Wed, 12 Aug 2020 13:52:28 GMT

This is from your sold list

NEW PS4 White Wireless Controller + Cable | Dualshock | AU Seller | Free Postage

I would expect a genuine ps4 item given the title, I dont think it is good enough to then have unbranded in specifics and for ps4

in the description

Re: Removal of "Counterfeit Listing" that isnt counterfeit + doesnt breach ebay policy -

djavusydney — Wed, 12 Aug 2020 14:04:26 GMT

ok. that's clearer for this one - Dualshock is a trademarked word for Sony gamepads - thus if your items not Sony - you cannot use this word. Note as well for your selling of face masks - you should have get permission from eBay as these are restricted items - just in case you don't know - this way you won't be in trouble in future.

Re: Removal of "Counterfeit Listing" that isnt counterfeit + doesnt breach ebay policy -

danieh_6 — Wed, 12 Aug 2020 16:45:40 GMT

Unless you are buying from Sony, they are fake, I highly doubt you are. "new" ps4 controllers are copyrighted mate, sorry man. Find another product or a better way to list them, its keywords, branding, photos, unbranded etc.

Re: Removal of "Counterfeit Listing" that isnt counterfeit + doesnt breach ebay policy -

danieh_6 — Wed, 12 Aug 2020 16:54:12 GMT

Actually, I just checked your listings and no wonder they were taken down, these are fake. instead of lying in the thread and saying they aren't fake, maybe you should ask how to appeal it. Best of luck on your store. Image 1 is real, Image 2 is yours. I'd find it pretty funny if you went to the ACCC over this.

Re: Removal of "Counterfeit Listing" that isnt counterfeit + doesnt breach ebay policy -

essential_74 — Wed, 12 Aug 2020 19:24:20 GMT

As stated above, I removed DualShock from my listings.
And my point remains, I’m happy to change/comply, but so should everyone else.

Re: Removal of "Counterfeit Listing" that isnt counterfeit + doesnt breach ebay policy -

essential_74 — Wed, 12 Aug 2020 19:26:37 GMT

AND almost all competitors have DualShock in their title

On top of that, I changed to “for PS4”, whereas a lot of other listings have “PS4 controller”

Re: Removal of "Counterfeit Listing" that isnt counterfeit + doesnt breach ebay policy -

essential_74 — Wed, 12 Aug 2020 19:39:56 GMT

But this is my ENTIRE point...
My question IS (first comment) how do I appeal?

And maybe my understanding of what is considered fake and what is generic needs education...
I’m new to this and learning fast so I can replace my lost income from the pandemic. And I’m happy to make changes so I do comply. And if that means these controllers can be sold then I will accept that too... but then that rule needs to be applied to everyone surely? Why dont the other listings breach the same policy?

I wouldn’t mind, but I’m only selling these after using the terrapeak tool, which shows so many of these for sale... hence my thought that it must be ok

As you say tho... time to find a new product, clearly 🤷🏻‍♂️

Re: Removal of "Counterfeit Listing" that isnt counterfeit + doesnt breach ebay policy -

essential_74 — Wed, 12 Aug 2020 19:45:24 GMT

Thank you everyone for your replies

I think I will just accept that my item is not acceptable and that I need to find other products... ASAP 😬

Re: Removal of "Counterfeit Listing" that isnt counterfeit + doesnt breach ebay policy -

graceyblugrrl — Tue, 01 Sep 2020 18:52:50 GMT

I haven’t read all comments through yet but read the initial post. ARGHHHHH! You have to be kidding me. Don’t understand it from their end either, very robotic as you said.
Anyway I received the same notification earlier. WHY?!
I only have one of this particular item, but I do sell a lot of similar stuff on there.

I’m wondering in your case & my case has someone filed a complaint or reported the item (maybe even from multiple different accounts or times) because of a past issue we’ve had with someone on there? Like not related to that item, say for example I had someone recently buy something & pay then cancel the order 20 minutes later.. maybe foul play, people with nothing better to do then hurt sellers reputation..

Also, the email says “ In addition, there will be a temporary 3-day restriction placed on your account, and your other listings will be hidden from search during this period. All fees paid or payable for listings that are ended and/or hidden from search will not be refunded or otherwise credited to your account”
WHAT? 🤯 I’m assuming this means all items are hidden from view for a 3 day period.. as punishment, for what?
Did yours also say that?

Sounds like in your case you did nothing wrong, and I would have to check but I don’t see how mine would have any issues & never had any warnings for it when listing.. so why!!

Re: Removal of "Counterfeit Listing" that isnt counterfeit + doesnt breach ebay policy -

danieh_6 — Wed, 02 Sep 2020 02:09:03 GMT

@graceyblugrrl wrote:
I haven’t read all comments through yet but read the initial post. ARGHHHHH! You have to be kidding me. Don’t understand it from their end either, very robotic as you said.
Anyway I received the same notification earlier. WHY?!
I only have one of this particular item, but I do sell a lot of similar stuff on there.

I’m wondering in your case & my case has someone filed a complaint or reported the item (maybe even from multiple different accounts or times) because of a past issue we’ve had with someone on there? Like not related to that item, say for example I had someone recently buy something & pay then cancel the order 20 minutes later.. maybe foul play, people with nothing better to do then hurt sellers reputation..

Also, the email says “ In addition, there will be a temporary 3-day restriction placed on your account, and your other listings will be hidden from search during this period. All fees paid or payable for listings that are ended and/or hidden from search will not be refunded or otherwise credited to your account”
WHAT? 🤯 I’m assuming this means all items are hidden from view for a 3 day period.. as punishment, for what?
Did yours also say that?

Sounds like in your case you did nothing wrong, and I would have to check but I don’t see how mine would have any issues & never had any warnings for it when listing.. so why!!

If you read the comments or specifically the solution you will see the OP is selling fake stuff and did do something wrong.

Re: Removal of "Counterfeit Listing" that isnt counterfeit + doesnt breach ebay policy -

*tippy*toes* — Wed, 02 Sep 2020 03:29:31 GMT

@graceyblugrrl wrote:
I haven’t read all comments through yet but read the initial post. ARGHHHHH! You have to be kidding me. Don’t understand it from their end either, very robotic as you said.
Anyway I received the same notification earlier. WHY?!
I only have one of this particular item, but I do sell a lot of similar stuff on there.

I’m wondering in your case & my case has someone filed a complaint or reported the item (maybe even from multiple different accounts or times) because of a past issue we’ve had with someone on there? Like not related to that item, say for example I had someone recently buy something & pay then cancel the order 20 minutes later.. maybe foul play, people with nothing better to do then hurt sellers reputation..

Also, the email says “ In addition, there will be a temporary 3-day restriction placed on your account, and your other listings will be hidden from search during this period. All fees paid or payable for listings that are ended and/or hidden from search will not be refunded or otherwise credited to your account”
WHAT? 🤯 I’m assuming this means all items are hidden from view for a 3 day period.. as punishment, for what?
Did yours also say that?

Sounds like in your case you did nothing wrong, and I would have to check but I don’t see how mine would have any issues & never had any warnings for it when listing.. so why!!

Maybe eBay saw that you had left false positives for buyers, which is a policy violation punishable by death. I did have a chuckle at "sellers beware" though. Beware of who? No one can see who that buyer is except you.

Why are you using the cancel function when a buyer doesn't pay? Why don't you use the non payer dispute. You get your fees back, it's quicker than cancelling, and the buyer gets a strike against their name.

Your reply to your negative feedback is a bit odd too. How can the seller fail to make contact, when you are the seller? And who are we not dealing with? Wouldn't have a clue if they have bought from me or not.