topic Re: 'Untracked Letters' - Damned either way in Selling

'Untracked Letters' - Damned either way

lupercal — Tue, 19 Jan 2021 06:23:24 GMT

I'm at a loss to know how to deal with this issue in a way that satisfies eBay and doesn't penalise myself.

By way of brief explanation, I sell mostly CDs, DVDs, magazines, books and other small itemswhich all go at large letter rate.

Last week I received a message titled

Action: Upload Valid Tracking for Your eBay Orders

Stating in part

"We noticed that not all of the tracking you upload is valid (based on the postage services you’re selecting).

If you are inputting tracking numbers manually, we encourage you to copy and paste the tracking number to avoid errors;
If you are choosing to send some of your orders in an untracked letter, ensure these items are classified under the correct postage service (ie. Australia Post Domestic Regular Letter Untracked) in your postage policies;"

In the same message they stated:

"If you have a low rate of valid tracking on trackable postage services, your listings may be placed lower in search results."

Perhaps wrongly, I took this to mean that I should change my large letter items (virtually everything I sell) from 'standard parcel' to 'untracked letter' in the postage description, in order not to be penalised in search results. I can see now that the message doesn't actually promise that doing so will make any difference. However I was anxious to try. eBay said this new system began on October 1st last year, and that was when my sales suddenly fell off a cliff.

ANYWAY

I went and changed all my items to 'Australia Post Untracked Letter'. I wasn't comfortable with this for a number of reasons I'll get to below,. Today I received this from eBay:

"If you use an untracked postage service (e.g. Australia Post Domestic Regular Letter Untracked):

Your listings may show longer Estimated Delivery Dates to manage buyer expectations
Your listings may be placed lower in search results
If a buyer opens an ‘Item Not Received’ request, we will close any unresolved requests and refund the buyer 3 business days after the request is opened and you will be required to reimburse us for the amount

---

So, now I'm being placed lower in search results because I followed their request to change my postage category?

There are several reasons I'd rather go back to listing these items as 'standard parcel'. Whether it's strictly accurate or not, it's the description I've always used, and it seems more intuitively correct, because although my items do go at 'large letter rate', they are sent in padded bags, or with stiffening sheets, and basically look like parcels not letters. I don't want potential buyers to get the impression a CD is going to arrive in a paper envelope like a letter.

Second, under the 'letter' option, my items announce 'untracked' in their description, which seems a needless red rag to any unscrupulous buyers who now know for certain that I have no means of contradicting them if they claim an item hasn't arrived.

Finally, I get penalised in the expected delivery date by now having an estimated delivery time of 6-8 days. In my experience there is no basis for expecting a large letter to be slower than a tracked parcel. If anything I'd say the reverse is true.

(Before anyone asks why I don't just use tracking as an option: would you buy a $6 CD if the postage was $8-9 rather than $2-3?)

I just feel like changing everything back to where it was. It seems I'm going to be penalised in search results either way, but with 'untracked letter' I get additional penalties as well.

Apologies if this was a dog's breakfast to read, or if someone started a thread about it which I didn't notice.

Re: 'Untracked Letters' - Damned either way

heihachi_73 — Tue, 19 Jan 2021 06:56:22 GMT

Nothing's actually changed, eBay had no concept of letter post whatsoever until the untracked letter option was added. The only update eBay did was replace the long-deprecated Parcel + Tracking/Signature options with untracked and tracked letters. Australia Post stopped offering untracked parcels about a decade ago but eBay left the useless options in the list for years on end.

Up until last year, "Standard Delivery" was generally used for untracked letters due to being no actual option for letter rate items, but with the update eBay renamed it to "Standard Parcel Delivery", implying that all Australian parcels always come with tracking.

Even before the change you were a sitting duck when it came to cheap items with $2 or $2.20 postage (and before tracked letters became a thing, Registered Post was around $6 or $7, which wasn't much cheaper than the $8.95 parcel rate, and half the time registered items weren't even scanned by the posties and because of COVID-19 they weren't doing signatures either, so it was a waste of money).

If the difference between having "lower" search results in the most useless search option ever invented (Best Match), or having zero buyers because they don't want to pay upwards of $10 for a $2 item, I'll take the "risk" with lower-placed search results in the most useless search option ever invented while hoping buyers have brain cells and change the search option from Best Match to literally anything else.

Re: 'Untracked Letters' - Damned either way

eol-products — Tue, 19 Jan 2021 07:08:13 GMT

Technically a letter is "a written, typed, or printed communication, sent in an envelope by post or messenger" so you are sending something else it is a parcel. I just select standard parcel or whatever they are currently calling it and when someone buys multiples or if the value is above a certain amount I send with tracking.

Re: 'Untracked Letters' - Damned either way

lupercal — Tue, 19 Jan 2021 07:13:07 GMT

@heihachi_73 wrote:

If the difference between having "lower" search results in the most useless search option ever invented (Best Match), or having zero buyers because they don't want to pay upwards of $10 for a $2 item, I'll take the "risk" with lower-placed search results in the most useless search option ever invented while hoping buyers have brain cells and change the search option from Best Match to literally anything else.

I'm tossing up between that and simply changing back to 'Standard Parcel'. Unless eBay are actually going to penalise me for doing so (in a way they're not already penalising me for choosing 'untracked letter') at least I'd get my more resonable delivery estimate back, and not be giving people the impression they're going to receive stuff in a paper envelope. Either way it looks like I get dropped in the search results.

NB I agree with you; I'd like to think people used commonsense in their search behaviour - like defaulting to 'lowest price including postage' when searching for a common item, but I've been told repeatedly on this forum that most people don't.

It doesn't matter much when there are only a couple of other sellers in the world with the same item, but with bread and butter stuff that's rarely the case.

Re: 'Untracked Letters' - Damned either way

bikeden — Tue, 19 Jan 2021 07:15:27 GMT

eBay are just trying to mitigate loss. We also send various items using standard letter and to be honest it's far more reliable and faster than parcel post.

We adopted a trick by adding a QR code sticker in the top left corner. This is the zone senders can use for any purpose, return address, advertising, anything you like. It gives the impression of a tracked item to the receiver and reduces the threat of a fake NDR claim.

When you scan the QR code it brings up some information including a number, similar to a registered item. We change the postage in our listing to Standard Parcel Delivery - Registered, which is not a tracked service.

We got the same email and ignored it. Your items might be put lower in the BIG FAT ALGORITHM using Best Match sort, but you will be in the same position as Price + postage: lowest first, sort, which is probably what the majority of buyers use.

eBay is a discount store and people shop here looking for the lowest price.

Re: 'Untracked Letters' - Damned either way

davewil1964 — Tue, 19 Jan 2021 07:33:11 GMT

@eol-products wrote:
Technically a letter is "a written, typed, or printed communication, sent in an envelope by post or messenger" so you are sending something else it is a parcel. I just select standard parcel or whatever they are currently calling it and when someone buys multiples or if the value is above a certain amount I send with tracking.

Actually, anything that is flexible and within the size limits can be sent as a letter.

Re: 'Untracked Letters' - Damned either way

davewil1964 — Tue, 19 Jan 2021 07:36:03 GMT

or if someone started a thread about it which I didn't notice

Several.

This, for example - https://community.ebay.com.au/t5/Selling/What-am-I-missing/m-p/2381993#M206746

Re: 'Untracked Letters' - Damned either way

zanadoo_56 — Tue, 19 Jan 2021 08:47:39 GMT

QUOTE: "NB I agree with you; I'd like to think people used commonsense in their search behaviour - like defaulting to 'lowest price including postage' when searching for a common item, but I've been told repeatedly on this forum that most people don't."

They don't? That's how I search for items. It used to annoy me very much that I'd have to reset it to that every time I logged on to eBay. Thank goodness it now saves my preference.

Re: 'Untracked Letters' - Damned either way

eol-products — Tue, 19 Jan 2021 08:55:21 GMT

Up until recently I was sending petrol powered edger blades as a letter. Maybe no one complained due to the price but I did send as a medium sized tracked letter. Maybe I should start including a note to contact me if postage is charged on collection.

Re: 'Untracked Letters' - Damned either way

davewil1964 — Tue, 19 Jan 2021 08:57:41 GMT

I would. Given that edger blades would probably not be defined as flexible. And if they were, they would probably not be fit for purpose.

Re: 'Untracked Letters' - Damned either way

twyngwyn — Tue, 19 Jan 2021 09:11:58 GMT

I have some vague recollection that envelopes C5 & larger do not go through the sorting machines......can't find anywhere to prove the point....it used to be on A.P. website....MIA now.....anyone know?

Re: 'Untracked Letters' - Damned either way

digital*ghost — Tue, 19 Jan 2021 09:26:43 GMT

@lupercal wrote:

I'm tossing up between that and simply changing back to 'Standard Parcel'. Unless eBay are actually going to penalise me for doing so (in a way they're not already penalising me for choosing 'untracked letter') at least I'd get my more resonable delivery estimate back, and not be giving people the impression they're going to receive stuff in a paper envelope.

The ETA is affected when the tracking is uploaded - if you have a tracked service selected and don't actually upload the number, the ETA will be the same as on an untracked service, and placement in search results may still be affected. ("By uploading valid tracking when an item is sold using an eBay-integrated carrier, you’re protected against Item Not Received claims. It also allows us to give better delivery estimates on when your item will arrive. If you have a low rate of valid tracking on trackable postage services, your listings may be placed lower in search results. ")

I opted to have the untracked letter option on my listings, I wasn't happy about it, but it at least provides accurate service info to buyers...if they look beyond the "standard postage" that's displayed in listings.

Re: 'Untracked Letters' - Damned either way

davewil1964 — Tue, 19 Jan 2021 09:36:22 GMT

I opted to change all my 'standard postage' to untracked letters when eBay decided that 'standard postage' only applied to parcels. Whereas before it applied to anything not defined as a parcel.

Was fun.

Re: 'Untracked Letters' - Damned either way

chameleon54 — Tue, 19 Jan 2021 12:31:24 GMT

@twyngwyn wrote:
I have some vague recollection that envelopes C5 & larger do not go through the sorting machines......can't find anywhere to prove the point....it used to be on A.P. website....MIA now.....anyone know?

Our local PO has a series of boxes in racks. A couple for international mail, one for registered mail etc. etc. All of my large letters are put in a box with a large label on the front that says " hand sorted ". I assume that is what happens to large letters.

Re: 'Untracked Letters' - Damned either way

chameleon54 — Tue, 19 Jan 2021 12:40:48 GMT

@lupercal wrote:
@heihachi_73 wrote:

If the difference between having "lower" search results in the most useless search option ever invented (Best Match), or having zero buyers because they don't want to pay upwards of $10 for a $2 item, I'll take the "risk" with lower-placed search results in the most useless search option ever invented while hoping buyers have brain cells and change the search option from Best Match to literally anything else.
I'm tossing up between that and simply changing back to 'Standard Parcel'. Unless eBay are actually going to penalise me for doing so (in a way they're not already penalising me for choosing 'untracked letter') at least I'd get my more resonable delivery estimate back, and not be giving people the impression they're going to receive stuff in a paper envelope. Either way it looks like I get dropped in the search results.

NB I agree with you; I'd like to think people used commonsense in their search behaviour - like defaulting to 'lowest price including postage' when searching for a common item, but I've been told repeatedly on this forum that most people don't.

It doesn't matter much when there are only a couple of other sellers in the world with the same item, but with bread and butter stuff that's rarely the case.

I,ve been getting the same messages. The truth is everything is listed as " standard parcel " and I dont upload any tracking unless requested by the buyer, so a couple of my selling accounts are getting zero % of your items sent with tracking messages.

I,m not sure if the downgrading of visibility is supposed to have taken effect yet, but Ive just had one of my best weeks of sales for a very long time and its different stuff to different buyers.

Re: 'Untracked Letters' - Damned either way

kitty-kat-kollection — Wed, 20 Jan 2021 06:35:35 GMT

Every single thing I send is tracked, either using the small green & white "document mailers" or the various satchels.

Usually when I list an item, it gives me the option of tracked small parcel etc for $8.95, which is mostly what I want. Lately though, every few listings, this option doesn't appear and all I get is standard parcel / delivery, and I have to manually enter the price AND my postcode. Very annoying, and now I wonder if these items won't appear as prominently due to the apparent "standard" post!

Re: 'Untracked Letters' - Damned either way

desolate-sellable — Wed, 20 Jan 2021 10:06:45 GMT

Your listings may be placed lower in search results

This line IMO would most definitely be in breach of fair trading.

The fact that long time sellers that have enough faith in both the Australia Post and the genuine buyers to use regular mail postage with stamps and an untracked service says somthing about TRUST.

And we the sellers are going to be some how penalised just so eBay can push another agenda on us.

I'm not going to bend to this demand by eBay and yes I am slowly loosing sales.

POOR FORM eBay

Re: 'Untracked Letters' - Damned either way

heihachi_73 — Wed, 20 Jan 2021 11:16:41 GMT

I don't think that happens unless the seller has been dropped to below standard due to having too many defects. With eBay it's either lights on or lights off and simply random luck if something sells. You could be listing the exact same thing all year round and never know if you'll sell 5 items in a given month of 50.

Meanwhile, eBay has once again dropped me from Top Rated to Above Standard for February due to lack of sales, go figure.

Re: 'Untracked Letters' - Damned either way

davewil1964 — Wed, 20 Jan 2021 22:16:06 GMT

@kitty-kat-kollection wrote:
Every single thing I send is tracked, either using the small green & white "document mailers" or the various satchels.

Usually when I list an item, it gives me the option of tracked small parcel etc for $8.95, which is mostly what I want. Lately though, every few listings, this option doesn't appear and all I get is standard parcel / delivery, and I have to manually enter the price AND my postcode. Very annoying, and now I wonder if these items won't appear as prominently due to the apparent "standard" post!

That means calculated postage is selected.

Use fixed price, and enter the price yourself. When prices go up, you can bulk edit to change them. That also means you aren't waiting for the, often significant, time lag for eBay to update calculated postage prices.

Re: 'Untracked Letters' - Damned either way

gumleaf_goodies — Thu, 21 Jan 2021 10:28:08 GMT

@eol-products wrote:
Technically a letter is "a written, typed, or printed communication, sent in an envelope by post or messenger" so you are sending something else it is a parcel. I just select standard parcel or whatever they are currently calling it and when someone buys multiples or if the value is above a certain amount I send with tracking.

Not true .From the AP website:

Nowhere does it say the contents of a letter must be documents, just that they be flexible.,