topic Re: Need advice on how to handle this case in Selling

Need advice on how to handle this case

jye57 — Mon, 05 Nov 2012 01:47:02 GMT

Hi everyone. I'd like some advice on how to proceed with a sale I've been getting problems with.

I recently sold a fully working computer motherboard, packed well and shipped it registered post. Buyer X received it and then claims it's faulty. I suggested X test it with some different methods given the probability of their faulty equipment/compatibility issues. X ignored my suggestions and opened a significantly not described Paypal dispute, so I said okay I trust your judgement. Send it back and I'll refund including return postage costs.

Well now I've received it back and the motherboard's in full working order (luckily)...

Do I refund and just pretty much lose $30 in postage costs, or should I inform it's working and risk pissing X off? What can I do in such a case where the buyer doesn't know how to use the item properly despite my suggestions?

Thanks.

Re: Need advice on how to handle this case

*sparklz* — Mon, 05 Nov 2012 02:01:40 GMT

Contact paypal and tell them it is in perfect working order.

Then tell the buyer as there is no fault you are happy to return on receipt of more postage payments.

BUT as you have told them you would refund on return as well as postage you are obliged to follow through.

What you should have told them is the return postage would be refunded IF there was a fault found.

Re: Need advice on how to handle this case

jye57 — Mon, 05 Nov 2012 03:28:45 GMT

Problem was the buyer wanted a refund and wanted me to pay for postage after I refunded. The only way I could get them to send it back was to offer reimbursement. But fair enough since I was stupid enough to offer it then I'll follow through.

The main problem is I'm struggling to think of a way to avoid negative feedback right now. Refunding is kind of an admission of fault already, and letting them know the item is working's only going to complicate matters.

Thanks for the reply.

First time I've had a problem in over 200 sales, and I'm pretty much guaranteed a negative feedback. Sigh. 😞

Re: Need advice on how to handle this case

dazzabelle — Mon, 05 Nov 2012 03:46:29 GMT

Hi there

Unfortunately contacting PayPal won't help. I recently had PayPal overturn a sale (even after I spoke to eBay and they confirmed that my description was on par), PayPal just took the funds out of my account claiming it was just 'putting the funds on hold' which of course meant they had to come out of my money.

When I called PayPal customer service I was told PayPal rules in favour of the buyer because if the buyer disputed the transaction through their own bank it would jeopardise PayPal's reputation as a financial institution. You can image how I felt. Usually being a buyer and to be honest never before this filing a complaint even when something I received was damaged or not to spec, having been subjected to that as a seller. And then be faced with accusations of negative feedback and rude capitalised messages after I offered to meet the buyer halfway and refund the amount less postage so that I would at least not be financially out of pocket.

So yes being a buyer and a seller I get to see both sides. I have had sellers promising a refund and not doing so then once the 30days or 60days lapses there is nothing you can do. You can't file a claim and you can't leave any kind of feedback.

However you can appeal a PayPal claim. This can be done if the item received from the buyer is not in the same condition as what you sent. Essentially the claim they made against you is the claim you then make against them.

As for the negative feedback, cancel the transaction and then they are not able to leave feedback. Also if the issue shows as resolved in the resolution centre I don't think that eBay will allow either party (you or them) to leave negative feedback.

Re: Need advice on how to handle this case

*sparklz* — Mon, 05 Nov 2012 03:48:13 GMT

If they do neg you call ebay as sometimes they will remove it depending on the circumstances.

Tell them you can get written proof from a third party to advise the buyer had a change of mind as the item is in perfect working order as per the listing.

IF it does happen reply stating refund issued incl return post for working item.

This will show you are willing to help.

If a buyer opens a dispute again let them go ahead with it as paypal will tell them to return via registered post at their expense.

If on receipt of the item there is a fault then you can if you want refund the return postage at your discretion.

Re: Need advice on how to handle this case

*sparklz* — Mon, 05 Nov 2012 03:55:27 GMT

Hi there

Unfortunately contacting PayPal won't help. I recently had PayPal overturn a sale (even after I spoke to eBay and they confirmed that my description was on par), PayPal just took the funds out of my account claiming it was just 'putting the funds on hold' which of course meant they had to come out of my money.

When I called PayPal customer service I was told PayPal rules in favour of the buyer because if the buyer disputed the transaction through their own bank it would jeopardise PayPal's reputation as a financial institution. You can image how I felt. Usually being a buyer and to be honest never before this filing a complaint even when something I received was damaged or not to spec, having been subjected to that as a seller. And then be faced with accusations of negative feedback and rude capitalised messages after I offered to meet the buyer halfway and refund the amount less postage so that I would at least not be financially out of pocket.

So yes being a buyer and a seller I get to see both sides. I have had sellers promising a refund and not doing so then once the 30days or 60days lapses there is nothing you can do. You can't file a claim and you can't leave any kind of feedback.

However you can appeal a PayPal claim. This can be done if the item received from the buyer is not in the same condition as what you sent. Essentially the claim they made against you is the claim you then make against them.

As for the negative feedback, cancel the transaction and then they are not able to leave feedback. Also if the issue shows as resolved in the resolution centre I don't think that eBay will allow either party (you or them) to leave negative feedback.

For the transaction to be cancelled the buyer has to agree to a mutual cancellation and they CAN still leave feedback they wish to leave.

The only time the option to leave FB is gone is for a non payer dispute.

Please have a read of this thread.

I was refunded by paypal in the end.

Fight for your money if you have the time to do so.

If enough sellers stand up when items have false claims put in they MIGHT take notice eventually.

http://community.ebay.com.au/topic/Selling/Frist-Described-Item/500158788

Re: Need advice on how to handle this case

putney32 — Mon, 05 Nov 2012 03:56:30 GMT

Hi there

- - - -

So yes being a buyer and a seller I get to see both sides. I have had sellers promising a refund and not doing so then once the 30days or 60days lapses there is nothing you can do. You can't file a claim and you can't leave any kind of feedback.

However you can appeal a PayPal claim. This can be done if the item received from the buyer is not in the same condition as what you sent. Essentially the claim they made against you is the claim you then make against them.

As for the negative feedback, cancel the transaction and then they are not able to leave feedback. Also if the issue shows as resolved in the resolution centre I don't think that eBay will allow either party (you or them) to leave negative feedback.

quite a few inaccuracies in this post..

especially the 'cancel the transaction.... comment

a Seller cannot just 'cancel' a transaction. the only way to stop a neg f/b is by opening and closing a Non Paying Bidder dispute, but as this item has been paid for that isnt an option.

a Mutual Cancellation request, even if the buyer agrees, still leaves both sides free to leave f/back.

and as for the I have had sellers promising a refund and not doing so then once the 30days or 60days lapses there is nothing you can do. You can't file a claim and you can't leave any kind of feedback.

as the buyer the choice of when to open the dispute is all yours. if the buyer is promising a refund and you dont get it immediately, then you open the dispute, they'll still have 20 days to either refund or you close the dispute and get your $$$ back. and you can leave f/b. the ball is in your court, play by the rules and you wont have problems.

Re: Need advice on how to handle this case

phorum_junkie* — Mon, 05 Nov 2012 04:29:42 GMT

You should have said you would reimburse return postage cost if it was faulty, as you didn't I would just refund and forget about slugging it out with Paypal.

I would have offered a refund of item price only on return if it turned out to be as described and then I may have spend the time to argue the toss with Paypal but if you just said return it and you would refund in full with return costs that is what you should do and take it as a not too expensive lesson on how to word things more precisely if it happens again.

Re: Need advice on how to handle this case

jye57 — Mon, 05 Nov 2012 05:32:08 GMT

dazzabelle I know how you feel. Item's still in good condition though, and cancelling requires the buyer to accept and they can still leave feedback.

Thanks for the advice sparklz. Good to know there's a way out of a neg.

phorum_junkie, I've actually just reread the message exchange and nowhere did I actually state I'll refund if the item isn't DOA. It went like this:

Buyer: Item faulty. I want a refund.

Me: Can you tell me what happens when you use it? Any damage from mishandling?

Buyer: Nothing, item completely dead. No damage.

Me: Can let me know what tests you've done? Suggested some other tests. If still not working return it and I will refund including postage.

No response from buyer, next day opens Paypal dispute:

Buyer: Item DOA, in which case you promised refund.

Me: Okay, return and I will refund including postage.

Since the buyer isn't providing the info I asked for I suspect they've just changed their mind. And therefore I don't want to send it back to them. What do you guys think?

Cheers.

Re: Need advice on how to handle this case

*sparklz* — Mon, 05 Nov 2012 05:46:42 GMT

You NEVER stated you would refund the postage to return the item back to you, (as I read it.)

All you said is you would refund postage and that can mean the postage they paid to get it to them.

So just go to paypal and click on issue refund and refund them the cost of the item and the postage, so the total amount they paid to you which is what would have happened had paypal told them to return it.

Once that is done then send a mutual agreement request to get your FVF refunded.

If they decline it call ebay and they will do it manually as once you issue a refund through the payment they made then it will show as refunded and they will credit you the FVF.

Re: Need advice on how to handle this case

***super_nova*** — Mon, 05 Nov 2012 06:34:31 GMT

I would refund only the cost of the item. If he demands postage say that as it was not DOA, you will not refund the postage. He might NEG you, but he might do that anyway. I would take the chance and if he does try, to have it removed.

Re: Need advice on how to handle this case

jye57 — Mon, 05 Nov 2012 06:46:45 GMT

You NEVER stated you would refund the postage to return the item back to you, (as I read it.)

Actually I said I would refund return postage as well, but didn't say I would do so if the item is actually working.

Re: Need advice on how to handle this case

jye57 — Mon, 05 Nov 2012 06:48:07 GMT

Oops messed the last post...

You NEVER stated you would refund the postage to return the item back to you, (as I read it.)

Actually I said I would refund return postage as well, but didn't say I would do so if the item is actually working.

Re: Need advice on how to handle this case

jye57 — Mon, 05 Nov 2012 06:52:47 GMT

I would refund only the cost of the item. If he demands postage say that as it was not DOA, you will not refund the postage. He might NEG you, but he might do that anyway. I would take the chance and if he does try, to have it removed.

I would like to avoid that, as it would inevitably escalate to a claim. In which case I'll have to prove the item is working at my expense anyway.

On another note, how should I refund postage? Should I send it as a purchase for services or personal as payment owed?

Re: Need advice on how to handle this case

*sparklz* — Mon, 05 Nov 2012 07:14:40 GMT

To do the refund for the initial payment to the right of the payment is a issue refund and then from their payment notice copy their email address and click on send money and go from there to send them the extra as you can not refund more than was paid..

Does it show on the package the amount they paid or will you go by what it cost you to post to them?

Re: Need advice on how to handle this case

jye57 — Mon, 05 Nov 2012 14:05:05 GMT

Thanks sparklz. Reconsidered my circumstance and I am in no way at fault so decided to take super_nova's advice in the end, let the buyer know the item's fully working and asked how they'd like to proceed. Got a neg and they opened a claim against me.

The worst part is that I've only just realised Paypal's seller protection doesn't cover SNAD cases.

Re: Need advice on how to handle this case

phorum_junkie* — Mon, 05 Nov 2012 22:25:11 GMT

Don't panic. If they returned it by reg post then Paypal probably will find in their favour however if it is still in dispute and not escalated to a claim reply to the dispute stating that it is in perfect working order and you are prepared to refund the item price only or to return it to the buyer on receipt of the required postage cost.

If Paypal find against you and refund the buyer send me a message, say on the boards you have done so as I rarely check that email address, and I will explain how I managed to get a discretionary payment for the full amount from Paypal as well as getting to keep the goods so I could re-list them when they were exactly as described!

Re: Need advice on how to handle this case

jye57 — Tue, 06 Nov 2012 00:46:21 GMT

The item was returned by registered post, I did exactly what you said phorum_junkie, and then they responded by escalating to claim. This all happened last night.

I'm happy to refund the cost of the item, but don't think I should refund postage as the item isn't DOA. I'm wondering what are my chances of winning the case by providing photos/videos of the item working?

Thanks.

Re: Need advice on how to handle this case

b3llag1na — Tue, 06 Nov 2012 01:10:22 GMT

The way I understand it, you are only ever obliged to refund the original selling price and original postage costs, even if your buyer seems to expect you to pay the return postage as well paypal will not make you do that. When reading your messages back and forth, I took it to mean you would refund their original postage - I don't see anywhere where you said you would pay for the return postage.

I would simply go into the paypal dispute and refund them the money they paid you, you are then only ouy of pocket for the postage as you already have the item back and knowing it is working fine, you can relist it.

Re: Need advice on how to handle this case

a_beautiful_room — Tue, 06 Nov 2012 02:12:51 GMT

Just refund original purchase price and original post. You have the item back, it's working, you can re-sell it. Block the buyer also.

You can fill out this claim to have the neg removed. You need a JP to sign (policeman, chemist etc.) Fax it in, send the hard copy, voila, neg gone. (takes about a week)

Chalk it up to experience, we all have them ...

And then you can get along with your life and good luck 🙂