topic Re: Advice on Stolen Item in Selling

Advice on Stolen Item

oddsandendsoz — Fri, 19 Feb 2021 05:12:48 GMT

Hi community,

Hoping you are all well and sales are not too bad for you all.

I have a situation I have not experienced as a seller before that I hope you can help with. Yesterday I received an eBay message from a buyer who had just received an item earlier that day from an Australia Post delivery driver;

"I have received the package today unfortunately somewhere along the route someone has sliced open the seal of the packaging and taken out the item and left all the padding.

I have been in touch with Australia Post and putting in a complaint and hopefully they will refund some of the money I am out of pocket for it. I will be in touch and let you know how it goes. I may have to open a missing item case on here to ensure it is done in the correct timeframe, but ideally I am trying to get Aus Post to pay for their staff stealing it."

Apparently the buyer has taken images when he received it and looking at tracking, an investigation was opened around 30 minutes after receiving the parcel from the driver (this 30 minutes would obviously include driving to the PO as it seems he went to his local PO to report). The buyers second message through eBay messages in response to my reply states as follows:

"Hi

It was handed to me by the driver and as he drove off I noticed it was cut open and then realised it was your delivery and too light.

I took photos as soon as I noticed.

I have reported it to the post depot manager, and through the official channels as Aus Post.

I am a serving police officer so I have got a colleague to put a stealing report on the system.

How many have you got as I am still keen on getting this item or 12 ha ha."

Obviously the fact the buyer is a Police offer helps somewhat but I am wondering what obligations I have in this regard and how eBay would likely side with the buyer?

Thoughts and input very much appreciated.

Re: Advice on Stolen Item

curraone — Fri, 19 Feb 2021 05:37:12 GMT

If a formal dispute is opened, make sure you respond with the tracking no.

Then I would just wait a bit. Hopefully Aust Post will come through. Can I ask what kind of item it was, and what value?

Re: Advice on Stolen Item

katistrophik — Fri, 19 Feb 2021 07:07:03 GMT

Follow curraone advice, and don't put too much faith in the fact that the buyer is a cop, I could tell you I am a canary and how would you know ?

Ok, bad example...... a canary probalby types better than I do

Re: Advice on Stolen Item

padi*0409 — Fri, 19 Feb 2021 07:14:46 GMT

@katistrophik wrote:

Ok, bad example...... a canary probalby types better than I do

Probably better than me as well Kat...................

Re: Advice on Stolen Item

everard6920 — Fri, 19 Feb 2021 07:29:47 GMT

@oddsandendsoz wrote:
Hi community,

Hoping you are all well and sales are not too bad for you all.

I have a situation I have not experienced as a seller before that I hope you can help with. Yesterday I received an eBay message from a buyer who had just received an item earlier that day from an Australia Post delivery driver;

"I have received the package today unfortunately somewhere along the route someone has sliced open the seal of the packaging and taken out the item and left all the padding.
I have been in touch with Australia Post and putting in a complaint and hopefully they will refund some of the money I am out of pocket for it. I will be in touch and let you know how it goes. I may have to open a missing item case on here to ensure it is done in the correct timeframe, but ideally I am trying to get Aus Post to pay for their staff stealing it."

Apparently the buyer has taken images when he received it and looking at tracking, an investigation was opened around 30 minutes after receiving the parcel from the driver (this 30 minutes would obviously include driving to the PO as it seems he went to his local PO to report). The buyers second message through eBay messages in response to my reply states as follows:

"Hi
It was handed to me by the driver and as he drove off I noticed it was cut open and then realised it was your delivery and too light.
I took photos as soon as I noticed.
I have reported it to the post depot manager, and through the official channels as Aus Post.
I am a serving police officer so I have got a colleague to put a stealing report on the system.
How many have you got as I am still keen on getting this item or 12 ha ha."

Obviously the fact the buyer is a Police offer helps somewhat but I am wondering what obligations I have in this regard and how eBay would likely side with the buyer?

Thoughts and input very much appreciated.

This sounds awfully sketchy. I don't think a police officer would say they put in a "stealing report" for starters.

Personally, I would ask the buyer to authorise you on the case (he has to ask AP to do it). Tell him you want to speak to AP about exactly how the article was packed, etc, to maximise the buyer's chance of a good outcome. Emphasise that when someone steals from your buyer, they are stealing from you.

Tell him you will also be filing a case with ACORN and basically try to get as involved with it as you can, so that if the buyer is full of it, you will make them think twice about pursuing it. If they're being truthful, then they'll be happy that you're trying to help, so no harm done.

What was the approximate value of the item?

Re: Advice on Stolen Item

oddsandendsoz — Fri, 19 Feb 2021 07:47:53 GMT

Thanks for your input. The value of the item was $109 and was sent with SOD. Hopefully AP will cover most of the costs on this but I am just wondering how AP treat these acuusations of staff theft. I imagine it is not an easy or quick process.

Re: Advice on Stolen Item

oddsandendsoz — Fri, 19 Feb 2021 07:55:00 GMT

Yes, I do admit I was also a little suss on the wording of 'stealing report' but then he is located in rural WA so maybe that's normal speak in those parts.

On looking at the buyers FB there are no issues at all in regards to evidence of INR or INAD, all perfect feedback given to sellers thus far. I am not sure what to make of it but a quick google of name does suggest the buyer certainly has some involvement with the Police force but not entirely clear (mainly liking twitter posts etc). The value of the item was $109 so not a biggie but just not sure how eBay treat these kind of cases? I have SOD and tracking on all my items and generally insure up to the value.

Re: Advice on Stolen Item

lyndal1838 — Fri, 19 Feb 2021 07:59:57 GMT

If the buyer's story is accepted by AP they can be quite quick in settling the claim.

I am a bit suspicious of the buyers claim that he is a police officer...stealing report does not sound right to me.

I would hazard a guess that the buyer has cut into packing and removed the item himself.

Re: Advice on Stolen Item

digital*ghost — Fri, 19 Feb 2021 08:25:05 GMT

I had the same reaction to "stealing report" as soon as I read it. I mean, maybe it's not his area but these things have official names and a police officer is much more likely to use "industry jargon" than something your average citizen might come up with (which is more likely to be "theft report" IMO, but cops usually use a generic phrase like "incident report").

If an official report has been made, there will be a case number - I'd ask for that.

Secondly, what kind of weight would the box have with the contents removed? Australia Post aren't always as on the ball as you'd hope, but if a package has been tampered with in tranist and it's obvious in one way or another (damage to the outer packaging, unusually light or obviously empty parcel etc), they will usually reseal the package and include a letter about the incident, with advice on who to contact etc.

You would be surprised the lengths people will go to for perceived believability and empathy. I had someone contact me claiming they never got the item. Before I could respond, they sent another message claiming they had received the package, but the contents had been stolen in transit, so I started asking some questions...

After my little round of questions, their story was that the package had been retreived by police (apparently the theif had a lot of stolen packages in their possession), but was empty, so it was handed off to Australia Post as it was no longer evidence in their investigation, and was then subsequently delivered by Australia Post, but included a letter from the police explaining the situation. I kept asking for the case number, in the end after repeated requests, they sent through a photo of a typed letter that (allegedly) corroborated their story.

I wasn't done yet, though - I contacted the police and asked if it was a genuine letter; disappointingly they refused to confirm or deny "no comment, for privacy reasons" was basically their reply. However, i also contacted Australia Post, gave them the full details of what the buyer was claiming, and they were just immediately "yeah....absolutely nothing like that has happened".

The kicker? The item value (including postage) was under $10 and it was sent untracked.

Also had a few scammers tell me they were lawyers, or a justice of the peace, it's meant to be shorthand for "I'm a fine, upstanding pillar of the community, and / or law-abiding citizen, I wouldn't even dream of jaywalking", lol.

By all means work with them and I hope all of the suspicions here turn out to be off the mark, but just be wary of this one, and take as many measures as you can to dispute their claim if / when they try to make one.

Re: Advice on Stolen Item

oddsandendsoz — Fri, 19 Feb 2021 08:35:14 GMT

Thanks Lyndal. I must admit stealing report did stand out when I read the message to my partner last night out loud. Very strange terminology I agree. Good to know AP will perhaps act quickly on this.

Re: Advice on Stolen Item

oddsandendsoz — Fri, 19 Feb 2021 08:43:27 GMT

@digital*ghost wrote:
I had the same reaction to "stealing report" as soon as I read it. I mean, maybe it's not his area but these things have official names and a police officer is much more likely to use "industry jargon" than something your average citizen might come up with (which is more likely to be "theft report" IMO, but cops usually use a generic phrase like "incident report").

If an official report has been made, there will be a case number - I'd ask for that.

Secondly, what kind of weight would the box have with the contents removed? Australia Post aren't always as on the ball as you'd hope, but if a package has been tampered with in tranist and it's obvious in one way or another (damage to the outer packaging, unusually light or obviously empty parcel etc), they will usually reseal the package and include a letter about the incident, with advice on who to contact etc.

You would be surprised the lengths people will go to for perceived believability and empathy. I had someone contact me claiming they never got the item. Before I could respond, they sent another message claiming they had received the package, but the contents had been stolen in transit, so I started asking some questions...

After my little round of questions, their story was that the package had been retreived by police (apparently the theif had a lot of stolen packages in their possession), but was empty, so it was handed off to Australia Post as it was no longer evidence in their investigation, and was then subsequently delivered by Australia Post, but included a letter from the police explaining the situation. I kept asking for the case number, in the end after repeated requests, they sent through a photo of a typed letter that (allegedly) corroborated their story.

I wasn't done yet, though - I contacted the police and asked if it was a genuine letter; disappointingly they refused to confirm or deny "no comment, for privacy reasons" was basically their reply. However, i also contacted Australia Post, gave them the full details of what the buyer was claiming, and they were just immediately "yeah....absolutely nothing like that has happened".

The kicker? The item value (including postage) was under $10 and it was sent untracked.

Also had a few scammers tell me they were lawyers, or a justice of the peace, it's meant to be shorthand for "I'm a fine, upstanding pillar of the community, and / or law-abiding citizen, I wouldn't even dream of jaywalking", lol.

By all means work with them and I hope all of the suspicions here turn out to be off the mark, but just be wary of this one, and take as many measures as you can to dispute their claim if / when they try to make one.

Thanks Digi, I love your work! I will need to step up the pressure I feel on this a little. I have been awaiting the outcome of the AP query but I think I need to take a more proactive approach here. Thanks for the great input as always.

The weight of this parcel was 1.6kg and certainly a buyer would probably notice as soon as it was handed over and they realised what the item should be. On the disclosing they were a Police officer this came after I politely requested they report to the Police as it may identofy a pattern in the area. I will see what unfolds over the next few days but yes it is quite suspicious this one.

It is strange that the delivery driver (huge assumption here but not sure how well CCTV'D AP sorting centres are) would steal the contents but then delivery the parcel knowing it was SOD.

Re: Advice on Stolen Item

jellybirddesigns — Fri, 19 Feb 2021 09:02:42 GMT

Whole thing sounds a bit suss.

Anyone can say they're in a "trusted" profession - you have no way to prove or disprove just on their say so.

What if the buyer got the item and then sliced it open to make it look like it had been tampered with?

The only way to tell would be for AP to find that delivery driver and question them about it and if he remembers handing over a tampered parcel (pretty sure a driver would notice it and discuss it with recipient).

I believe that as you were the seller and the one to lodge the parcel, AP would refund you, which you would then return to the buyer (they need to open a case first so that things go through the proper channels).

However, things can be a little murky as sellers have responsibility to contact AP up to when the item gets delivered. Once it's delivered, the onus fall to the buyer to follow up on issues. In this case, if the item was genuinely tampered with, I'm not sure exactly who should be lodging the case.

One thing you can do is contact AP in a friendly way through a private mesage on their FB page. I've always found them to be really helpful. I don't think they monitor their page on weekends, so you may need to wait until Monday. Ask them if a case has been opened, rather than relying on the buyers say so. They may tell you that you're the one who needs to open a case as you were the sender.

Also, I would definitely not send a replacement out.

Re: Advice on Stolen Item

instylecollectables — Fri, 19 Feb 2021 09:11:14 GMT

Sounds suss to me

Re: Advice on Stolen Item

curraone — Fri, 19 Feb 2021 09:36:42 GMT

Apparently the buyer has taken images when he received it and looking at tracking, an investigation was opened around 30 minutes after receiving the parcel

Re: Advice on Stolen Item

curraone — Fri, 19 Feb 2021 09:38:42 GMT

I'm sorry but this advice sounds all wrong.

First, the OP can see an investigation has been opened

Second, it is my understanding that if the item shows delivered, it is up to the buyer to query Aust Post, which they have done.

From the OP's original post, it looks like a dispute has not been opened yet, in any case.

My advice? Wait and see.

Re: Advice on Stolen Item

oddsandendsoz — Fri, 19 Feb 2021 09:57:42 GMT

@curraone wrote:
I'm sorry but this advice sounds all wrong.

First, the OP can see an investigation has been opened

Second, it is my understanding that if the item shows delivered, it is up to the buyer to query Aust Post, which they have done.

From the OP's original post, it looks like a dispute has not been opened yet, in any case.

My advice? Wait and see.

Indeed I can certainly see that 'Customer enquiry lodged' as shown in the tracking image below. It is does seem a very strange way of going about getting an INR 'freebie' if it is a scam because essentially they are blaming AP staff and it would be easier you would think to blame me the seller. So who knows what the 'truth' is, all I can say for sure is that the item was in the box as I have to weigh every item as very few are the same and I often have different packing materials inside as well as different box sizes and weights.

Re: Advice on Stolen Item

zanadoo_56 — Sat, 20 Feb 2021 03:31:58 GMT

Aust Post deliveries have been a bit awry lately.

I watched parcels being delivered to my letterbox. Only one parcel had tracking and when I looked it up it said delivered. Due to a bad arthritic day I wasn't able to collect them.

The next day another parcel was delivered - this time to my back door. I tried calling out to the AP driver but as usual he got into his van and took off like greased lightning. Fortunately my neighbour was home and heard me and I explained there were parcels in the letterbox. He got them for me - two untracked parcels.

I had a look at the newly delivered one. It seems the AP driver marked my tracked parcel as delivered the day before....and left it in his van so I only got the untracked ones. LOL Next day's delivery was of course the tracked parcel he supposedly delivered the day before.

That's just the latest example I can quote about AP parcel deliveres. There have been others over the last 12 months that were not exactly what I expected to happen. I suppose I can be grateful all but one (from overseas) eventually turned up.....and I mean very eventually.....despite what AP's tracking might have indicated. Any AP message that says 'Your parcel is on its way' or 'It's coming today' or some other optimistic message can be taken with a grain of salt ATM.

Re: Advice on Stolen Item

katistrophik — Sat, 20 Feb 2021 05:00:46 GMT

@ the OP

Yeah, I call BS, unless the guy delivering the parcel was blind how could he not notice it was Sliced open and Very light weight. Same

goes for the recipient, he would have realised right away, and as stated above, mentioned it to the driver surely.

This 'fake cop' took the parcel inside, removed the item, then went and made a 'fake' report to AP, and is merrily laughing up his sleeve.