topic Re: What do you do with your extra salt? in Selling

What do you do with your extra salt?

digital*ghost — Wed, 05 May 2021 06:14:00 GMT

I promise this is related to selling, but it's also a diversionary tactic (for me), because I have a habit of using it to sprinkle an unhealthy does of snark into a message and I don't want to do that this time 🤣

What strategies do you employ when you are seriously angry at a customer, but it's not worth the time or energy to do anything but try to let it go and move on?

I'm genuinely interested in some new things to try other than "quitely seethe until I vent or get over it", lol.

Will check back later for some handy hints, as I'm definitely getting my keister off the internet for a while (for the curious, there isn't really an interesting story here, I'm just super salty over a some wasted time and money).

Re: What do you do with your extra salt?

jfmgray — Wed, 05 May 2021 08:41:28 GMT

I am a bit of a fatalist. If something is totally out of my control then I don't waste my emotions getting angry if this won't change anything. BUT depending on the issue I might calmly work out how to get even!!

Re: What do you do with your extra salt?

katistrophik — Wed, 05 May 2021 09:14:42 GMT

I breathe, a lot, then I rant, someimtes rage, and then figure - You can't please all the people all the tme and decide the person causing me the angst is a &***^%^& and I feel better.

I am also going to lay a bet that your interesting story will involve some aspect of the MBG.

I am not even a seller, and I rage about some of the stuff I read!

Re: What do you do with your extra salt?

davewil1964 — Wed, 05 May 2021 09:20:18 GMT

I just block them. Fool me once...

Re: What do you do with your extra salt?

digital*ghost — Wed, 05 May 2021 09:52:07 GMT

@katistrophik wrote:

I am also going to lay a bet that your interesting story will involve some aspect of the MBG.
I am not even a seller, and I rage about some of the stuff I read!

Actually a non-eBay story this time, this is just the most appropriate outlet I have aside from whinging on FB, lol.

I'll put the story in a spoiler - just know up front this is not a "I'm never gonna financially recover from this" kinda situation, more of a "well....this is intensely frustrating and will take me a little while to get over" situation, lol

Had someone contact me asking for large quantities of an item I stock, but in different sizes. I explained I'm not really equipped to to do wholesale orders of that nature, however I could get what they want, it would just take several weeks, then gave them a quote. After quite a bit of back and forth, I went ahead and arranged for an order.

In the end, I spent the most I ever have on a single item to import a large quantity (postage alone was close to AUD$300), and - big surprise - when I let them know they'd arrived yesterday, they were "sorry, but...."

I'm mostly salty because I had to divert a lot of money to this one item and forego getting in other, needed stock, to accommodate them. The items will sell regardless, I just never would have dropped that kind of money on the product without their insistence.

And I know everyone will say "get a deposit" and / or I only have myself to blame for not doing so etc - I understand and even agree with the practice of getting deposits etc, plus recommend others do it, but I'm not mad about the money anywhere near as much since I know the rest of my customers will be more than happy to buy them, it's just the disregard and fact that I've had to let other customers down to be able to supply this one. (I tend not to ask for deposits for items I can easily sell whether or not the customer goes ahead with a purchase because I hate the stress of having a financially invested customer when the supplier lets me down in some way, which has happened a few times in the past after I took money up front. I do get deposits if I can't sell the items otherwise, of course).

Venting now to make sure I don't send the email reply I wrote. 🤣

Re: What do you do with your extra salt?

davewil1964 — Wed, 05 May 2021 10:03:40 GMT

Luckily for me, I don't take requests.

I do feel for you, I realise we sell into different markets, but I would never purchase expensive stock on a promise.

Re: What do you do with your extra salt?

digital*ghost — Wed, 05 May 2021 10:23:49 GMT

Thanks 🙂 I'll get over it eventually at least, lol, the stock price was ok, I just had to buy a lot of it to get the size they were requesting (normally with this kind of item, I buy 10-30k pcs at a time and that will last a few months on average, the MOQ on this one was 100k pcs and it was basically just marginally bigger than the standard size I stock, to suit a specific project they had in mind. I guess at least I won't be running out of them any time soon. 😂

Re: What do you do with your extra salt?

katistrophik — Wed, 05 May 2021 10:46:58 GMT

It sucks this happened, and the worst of it, aside from what you said, is that in future a genuine buyer may miss out on an opportunity because of one self absorbed idiot who has let you down.

BTW - I would have sent that email

Re: What do you do with your extra salt?

digital*ghost — Wed, 05 May 2021 11:12:57 GMT

It's really tempting, the problem is if I go off about it all that would do is give them something to either feel guilty about or - worse - get some kind of pleasure from it. If I play it cool, they might get the impression it's no big deal. I toyed with the idea of just letting them know not to contact or buy from me in future, but really that would be a self-satisfying "hmmph" that they may not even care about or just interpret it as the note below, so I've settled for the silent treatment. 😆

Re: What do you do with your extra salt?

davewil1964 — Wed, 05 May 2021 11:26:29 GMT

Fool me once, shame on you.

Fool me twice doesn't happen. BBL

Re: What do you do with your extra salt?

gumleaf_goodies — Thu, 06 May 2021 03:27:35 GMT

@digital*ghost wrote:
Thanks 🙂 I'll get over it eventually at least, lol, the stock price was ok, I just had to buy a lot of it to get the size they were requesting (normally with this kind of item, I buy 10-30k pcs at a time and that will last a few months on average, the MOQ on this one was 100k pcs and it was basically just marginally bigger than the standard size I stock, to suit a specific project they had in mind. I guess at least I won't be running out of them any time soon. 😂

My mind is boggling over the quantities you stated - and simply cannot imagine what sort of items you are buying.

Re: What do you do with your extra salt?

digital*ghost — Thu, 06 May 2021 04:53:51 GMT

Apologies in advance, I hope it helps even though I remain pretty vague.

They're just some common craft supplies, the kind of thing where a project might call for only one or two, or it could need thousands - I tend to sell them in packs ranging from 50-500 pcs, depending on the size.

100k sounds like a lot, I know, but the package weight was 20kg, if that puts it in perspective (that is, a package of 200pcs - which is how I'll sell them - is only going to weigh around 40g. The only reason I paid so much for the ones I got were due to the material and getting a higher quality cut on them. They can be cut by machine but you get a lower quality end result and isn't suitable for my customers, so I got these cut by hand. As you can imagine, that skyrockets the price on a scale like this).

Re: What do you do with your extra salt?

cezm — Thu, 06 May 2021 05:39:47 GMT

My son always reminds me that the cause of my angst doesn't

a) know that I'm upset

b) care that I'm upset

so the only person affected is me

I try to remember that and let it go - after a good rant!

Re: What do you do with your extra salt?

countessalmirena — Fri, 07 May 2021 11:02:11 GMT

We've all probably had experiences that are similar to that in some way, digital*ghost!

Of course, as an eBay buyer rather than seller, my experiences aren't parallel, and they are in different fields, but I have certainly had people waste my time and try to dump me into the midden pit of their unkept promises!

I have written letters and emails that I never sent. Just getting something said (but not sending it) can help a little. I can then use the communication that I didn't send as a springboard for something kinder and less throat-ripping, until finally I re-read what I have and am satisfied that it's okay to send.

I have stormed dramatically to myself, with full Shakespearean fury.

I have sat down and read through the communications, from the first to the last, and jotted down where I probably went wrong. Too kind? Too trusting? Too wishful of being helpful to people in trouble? I ruthlessly delineate where I had an opportunity to back away, and any signs that indicated that it would be best to back away. I use all of that information to come up with additions to my personal policies, and look at my contract information and terms of engagement and so on. I edit anything that in my judgement needs to be edited. I edit my email template responses to particular requests/situations if it's warranted. I try to use the bad experience to refine my future dealings.

In general, people who have wasted my time will not know just how annoying they've been, and there's little point in my telling them. People - all of us - we all tend to see things from our own perspective, which means there's a filter and an advocate for their own behaviour. I am unlikely to change other people's behaviour, so after the Sturm und Drang of my immediate reaction, I try to wax philosophical about the experience and learn from it, all the better to avoid a similar situation from occurring in future.

Re: What do you do with your extra salt?

digital*ghost — Fri, 07 May 2021 11:36:37 GMT

@countessalmirena wrote:
I try to wax philosophical about the experience and learn from it, all the better to avoid a similar situation from occurring in future.

It's not really possible, because I'm also trying to avoid taking people's money and not being able to follow through - I've been in that situation a few times, and I hate it more than I hate this situation, lol, and even though I (potentially) wouldn't be conscious of the situation, I'd hate it even more if I gave someone something like an 8 week wait time for goods to come in, something happens to me at some point, leaving me incapacitated (or worse) and they wait beyond the time anything can be done for them.

Slightly (maybe) tangentially related:

Here's a story for the books (and it's not intended as a fable or proof me not taking a deposit is a good way to practice business - if anything here is a cautionary tale for other sellers, it's the story above, not below, I at least recognise that 🤣 ).

Nearly five years ago, I had a client that I regularly made a lot of custom jewellery for - they tended to spend a couple hundred each order, and I made quite a few pieces for them over time.

Eventually, they asked for some custom pieces made in a more expensive material (niobium, gorgeous metal, especially when anodized, and not all that cheap - normally, I would have requested a deposit in this case, and I have when people asked for custom pieces in sterling or gold, but they were a long term, high-value client, so I didn't - I bet you can guess where this is going... 😂).

I spent a few hundred getting the material in, made a sample showing them what they had in mind would look like, and.... I never heard from them again. Same feelings, same response, same coping mechanism as before, no attempt to communicate further with the client.

Eventually, I took the material, got some argentium silver and made a really nice piece of my own design that I then listed on a site for quite a princely sum (it is still the most expensive piece I've ever put up for sale, including the sterling / gold pieces I've made in the past).

It took 4 years before it sold, never reduced it even one cent, lol. As I was prepping it for packing and posting, I took a look at the order details, and it was the client who had commissioned the niobium piece in the first place.

Occasionally people redeem themselves, if you wait long enough, I guess. (But I still don't intend that to be the moral of any of my stories - that's still, get deposits, fools! 😂 )

Re: What do you do with your extra salt?

colic2bullsgirlore — Fri, 07 May 2021 21:35:26 GMT

I read poetry

Frustration
by Dorothy Parker

If I had a shiny gun,
I could have a world of fun
Speeding bullets through the brains
Of the folk who give me pains;

Or had I some poison gas,
I could make the moments pass
Bumping off a number of
People whom I do not love.

But I have no lethal weapon-
Thus does Fate our pleasure step on!
So they still are quick and well
Who should be, by rights, in hell.

Re: What do you do with your extra salt?

springyzone — Fri, 07 May 2021 22:44:17 GMT

Okay, I understand completely why you are seriously angry, but I don't think you should just quietly seethe or 'move on'.

There is a middle ground between doing nothing and going ballistic.

What I'd be doing is writing a polite message. Polite in that you don't go calling the person a jerk or making any comment about their character, much as you might like to (and be entitled to, actually).

Put the emphasis on yourself and how you feel. Disappointed, seriously let down and financially affected. Outline the basic facts of what you did in good faith for them, step by step.

Mention it is the biggest thing you have done for someone.

Make no demands. Just leave it at that. Phrase it as advice for the future, just so they are aware.

People can often make excuses for their own behaviour and they can gloss over in their mind how it could have any effect on the other person. We see that all the time here in posts where buyers haven't always really understood why sellers weren't happy to just cancel at the drop of a hat etc. They didn't realise what extra work they put sellers to (I know that aspect is changing in ebay now, but talking about in the past)

If you abuse them, they can then wipe it further from their minds with the justification of-well, I am glad I didn't buy from them anyway as they weren't very nice. I did apologise, after all.

But if you couch it in terms of youself, they can't argue with that.

And although we can't change people's behaviour, outlining just how you have been affected, step by step, may in fact give them pause. They may have no idea it was any big deal to you.

I have been in similar situations (not with commercial transactions but in the workplace) Once was with a student teacher and one day she let me down badly. She arrived 15 minutes late after school began on a day when we were going on an excursion. The other buses had gone and there I was, waiting with parents and another class, we had all been ready for 30 minutes. The student teacher had no reason for running late, no car trouble etc. No message sent earlier. She just walked in and gave an airy sorry.

I kept my temper but later in private outlined exactly how it had affected me and why it wasn't on. She ended up in tears but I didn't particularly care. She got the message-that sorry didn't cut it, that it was more of a big deal than she thought. I doubt she would ever do it again to someone, put it that way. I failed her. I was glad to get it off my chest too, even though it didn't change the situation.

You deserve your say, say it. Not wasted time at all. Won't fix the problem but your buyer will know they have been a jerk. You won't have to tell them.

Re: What do you do with your extra salt?

digital*ghost — Sat, 08 May 2021 04:08:40 GMT

Great advice; now that I am a little more calm and can be a bit more objective about it, I may be able to compose something that is suitable. I wrote an email a couple days ago (unsent), so I've got (most of) my proverbial salt shaken out, now. 😅

Re: What do you do with your extra salt?

lm-entertainment — Sat, 08 May 2021 18:33:02 GMT

Honestly digi, when I see you post on these forums I admire the way you're able to keep your cool and reply to people in the nicest possible of ways. It makes me feel more human to know you have seething moments too haha.

I have a habit of replying to people as soon as I receive their messages. The biggest thing I've done recently is try to walk away and wait a while to reply to peoples messages until I've calmed down. I often got myself in a bit of a bother when people lodged return requests (which happened rarely) or messaged me furiously about something totally out of my control.

Now I just take a good amount of time until I reply to them and do my best to be as courteous as I can, while still explaining the situation how I see it and try and lay things out for them too. More often than not it has worked and I find the responses I get after that seem to be toned down too.

I hope you've found that magic solution!

Re: What do you do with your extra salt?

digital*ghost — Sun, 09 May 2021 03:52:45 GMT

@lm-entertainment wrote:
Honestly digi, when I see you post on these forums I admire the way you're able to keep your cool and reply to people in the nicest possible of ways. It makes me feel more human to know you have seething moments too haha.

If I give that impression, it would only be because I've pretty much trained myself to respond to most things with (mostly) detached objectivity, just through writing (and rewriting) responses to common things over and over again through the years, both for myself and others, but there's still a few things that will trigger a more visceral response - so I still have to do the walk away, have a coffee, etc thing a bit, otherwise my replies can contain a fair amount of sarcasm, even if very subtle, since it's usually my go-to gut response to things that tick me off 😳

Half the time it's actually been a matter of rewriting the sarcastic remark in a more palatable way 🤣 (eg anyone who complains about something that was outlined in the listing gets a subtle reminder it was in the listing, but instead of asking if I should have reached through the screen and slapped them with the description, I'll ask if they would be willing to help me improve the listing, and any suggestions for how to best convey that the item is (or isn't) X would be greatly appreciated (still subtle sarcasm behind that, but very successful at getting people to realise the mistake was theirs, without putting them on the defensive, and if they ever do have a practical suggestion [hasn't happened yet, lol], win / win).

In other words, I often tend to ask fairly innocuous questions that try to lead to a very specific point I want to make, but they were crafted over a bit of time. If I don't have any of those honed replies at hand for a reply, then this is the default lol

Once the storm passes, though, I usually just go with what's better for me (quick and simple resolution that means the least amount of work or further thought on it for me 🤣 - like right now I had someone open an INAD return request on an item long past the timeframe for the MBG. This meant I had the option to just decline it, (they are also well past the time to leave FB) I've stewed on it for a bit, fairly annoyed but also thinking about all the what-ifs if I take X action, but in the end I just did the thing that meant I didn't have to do anything else or think about it again, lol.

Stormy, but ultimately lazily pragmatic - not sure how good of a combo that is. 🙃