topic Re: eBay Managed Payments vs PayPal ??? * Forced managed payments in Selling

eBay Managed Payments vs PayPal ??? * Forced managed payments

cc-192 — Tue, 04 May 2021 18:37:51 GMT

I'm going to ignore the small % cost differences when comparing.

For decades buyers and sellers have been able to buy and sell items domestically using Aus. bank accounts to send and receive payments for eBay items.
The cost of doing so has always been ZERO. Just as most basic bank transfers between Aus. banks has no charge.
So eBay have now forced themselves into the middle of these normal transfers , and claim now they "manage" it.
I can see they have managed to charge % for what has always been a free transfer, I see that they are guaranteeing their earlier payment of fees, and I can also see they are managing to delay $ transfer times between buyer and seller...so what exactly is the benefit to buyers and sellers ?
Specifically what would be the benefits of forced eBay managed payments for buyer and seller over that which the prior option of having the choice between bank transfer and/or PayPal payment ?

I'm no staunch advocate for either eBay or PayPal but I am noting people getting bogged down in the fee percentage comparisons rather than the services these fees are actually claimed to be charged for.

PayPal has always charged fees for the service of most often instant money transfers and does function as a stand alone account for members, from which they can use funds to purchase other goods - whether those goods on eBay or elsewhere.
Paypal has offered transfer services similar to that of Western Union International Money Transfer for those who send moneys or gifts to family members overseas for example, they handle currency conversions, and also offer buyer and seller assurances that many opt for given those guarantees.

The fees PayPal have charged then could be considered in line with a company and fee structure that offers a unique package of services to its members.

For me then eBay Managed Payments vs PayPal charges is comparing apples to oranges.

I am in fact a little perplexed as how eBay have gotten away with it to this point, ie stepping in the middle of standard Aus. bank to Aus. bank money transfers as to glean a % and also slow the transfer time.

I am so puzzled by this I will be contacting appropriate government regulatory departments to see if my speculative curiosity can be appeased.

Re: eBay Managed Payments vs PayPal ??? * Forced managed payments

katistrophik — Tue, 04 May 2021 18:41:25 GMT

Let us know what the appropriate government regulatory departments say

Re: eBay Managed Payments vs PayPal ??? * Forced managed payments

cc-192 — Tue, 04 May 2021 18:53:34 GMT

No problem

Probably take some time this morning given not clear cut whether it will fall under jurisdiction of afca or fair trading, and given that I am thinking those I speak with may also be unsure.

Re: eBay Managed Payments vs PayPal ??? * Forced managed payments

case2018 — Tue, 04 May 2021 19:21:12 GMT

eBay's slide of hand illusion is in fact visible within their first explanatory paragraph :

With managed payments, eBay manages the end-to-end payments process. Your buyers can now pay with more convenient payment methods, and you'll receive the money in your bank account.

end-to-end ? ...what is more end-to end to the original Aus. bank account transfer directly to another Aus. bank account
more convenient ? ...now slower and more costly

What was a single, simple and free bank transfer between a buyer and a seller has been forcibly changed into what I assume is two bank transfers....one from buyer to eBay and a second from eBay to seller.

This is obviously slower, which for most would be considered less convenient, and although it doesn't have to be it is more expensive due to eBay stepping in the middle and charging a percentage for their "managed services"

Is this not obvious ?

Re: eBay Managed Payments vs PayPal ??? * Forced managed payments

case2018 — Tue, 04 May 2021 19:33:17 GMT

sorry for typo...sleight of hand....

Probably falls under the definition of '' lies " more than a trick though.

Re: eBay Managed Payments vs PayPal ??? * Forced managed payments

case2018 — Wed, 05 May 2021 01:33:53 GMT

Given your interest katistrophik

Ongoing trends and complaints to these departments are of particular interest and cause action, so I'll say this first should others feel inclined to act.

NSW Fair Trading welcomed lodgement of formal complaint and sighted that the fact that eBay imposed restrictions on members should they not sign up for eBay managed payments was of concern and should also be discussed with ACCC in specification relation to Restriction of Trade laws.

ACCC have noted complaint and conveyed the importance of how the trends of such complaints bring about intervention.

ASICS, upon detailed description of situation , advised formal complaint to be forwarded.

Reserve Bank of Australia are of particular interest as they control the standards by which fees such as this are structured. They will be sending written reply once detailed advice is reviewed.

Re: eBay Managed Payments vs PayPal ??? * Forced managed payments

gutterpunkz05 — Wed, 05 May 2021 02:26:51 GMT

It will probably take them all 6 months just to tell you, that ebay is complying with AML/CTF legislation.

Re: eBay Managed Payments vs PayPal ??? * Forced managed payments

case2018 — Wed, 05 May 2021 03:16:23 GMT

🙂
maybe...
let's see...email sent today.

maybe I'll change the world ~insert villains laugh~

Re: eBay Managed Payments vs PayPal ??? * Forced managed payments

gutterpunkz05 — Wed, 05 May 2021 03:27:39 GMT

Why dont you read the legislation, to figure out what managed payments is about

Re: eBay Managed Payments vs PayPal ??? * Forced managed payments

mtshed2014 — Wed, 05 May 2021 07:54:39 GMT

legislation ?

or do you refer to eBay policies ?

Re: eBay Managed Payments vs PayPal ??? * Forced managed payments

case2018 — Wed, 05 May 2021 09:42:20 GMT

I honestly thought your original post regarding AML/CTF was jovial sarcasm.

I've been dealing with Aus. track (there's an irony - that the department name cannot be correctly typed here in this forum ) since about 2004-05 , when they were restricting my faxed manufacturing import order transfer requests from o/s, and in turn delayed such transfers requiring posted letter request instead.
All the while, as it turns out , the large corporations were running rampant.

If you're implying that by charging a new 2.5% fee for overseeing an Australian bank to bank transfer eBay are attempting to rid the evil of money laundering or that their decision has been forced upon them by Govt regulators, then I'd surely like to see conclusive evidence of that. Especially given PayPal continues to conduct business within AML laws. Unlike eBay, PayPal is also registered with and governed by Australian financial institution regulatory bodies.

May I suggest this gutterpunkz05 , next time you need to do a bank transfer of say $1000 to someone I can manage it for you for a 2.5% fee. You can pay me the $1000 and I guarantee I will then forward that payment on. I understand your transfer to me is free under banking regulations, and my onward transfer is also free, however my 2.5% would possibly be a pleasing option for you , especially given I can describe it as an "enhanced ~buying and selling~ experience"

I have no doubt it has been instigated to enhance eBay Australia profit margins. I also have a feeling that this, coupled with recent format changes, may have been a shot in their own foot for eBay.

Re: eBay Managed Payments vs PayPal ??? * Forced managed payments

gutterpunkz05 — Wed, 05 May 2021 10:24:48 GMT

When you finally wake up to what is driving it, let me know. Not ebays choice, except for the choice to comply or cease operating.

The 2.5% ebay is charging is identical to what paypal were charging, but apparently you expect ebay to perform this function for free. As far as the time it takes, I do not care, and I certainly do not need your assistance to transfer a piddly $1000.00

Re: eBay Managed Payments vs PayPal ??? * Forced managed payments

zhhn992000 — Wed, 05 May 2021 10:29:25 GMT

the regulatory bodies (government agencies) are idiots, I don't think they understand this and they won't do anything about it.

Re: eBay Managed Payments vs PayPal ??? * Forced managed payments

gutterpunkz05 — Wed, 05 May 2021 10:56:41 GMT

@mtshed2014 wrote:
legislation ?

or do you refer to eBay policies ?

New legislation that ebay is required to comply with

Re: eBay Managed Payments vs PayPal ??? * Forced managed payments

katistrophik — Wed, 05 May 2021 11:13:03 GMT

Not sure if you have seen this other thread

https://community.ebay.com.au/t5/Selling/Managed-payments-a-joke/td-p/2409151/jump-to/first-unread-message

Re: eBay Managed Payments vs PayPal ??? * Forced managed payments

mtshed2014 — Wed, 05 May 2021 11:57:09 GMT

Do you have a specific legislation that is relevant to a new 2.5% fee charged on a particular method of payment transfer on eBay alone ?

All of the banking institutions have been under scrutiny of late inclusive of PayPal.
eBay continue to facilitate PayPal payments.

when you say " apparently you expect ebay to perform this function for free "

..what is the function ?

compliance ? , or "managing " a bank to bank transfer that never needed management in the first place as both sending and receiving institutions are far more equipped, and regulated, to manage the movement ?

None of my bank common bank transfers, PayPal payments, AfterPay transactions have incurred additional fees due to Royal Commission outcomes, or Aus. track

If this 2.5% fee is eBay relaying their compliance charges on to their members then why is it not over all transactions ?

Items paid with PayPal are pretty much structured the way they always have been.

I get the feeling we'll just disagree, so I'll move on from K-pop to Let it Be

All the best to you.

Re: eBay Managed Payments vs PayPal ??? * Forced managed payments

case2018 — Wed, 05 May 2021 13:16:36 GMT

there was a bit of pass the dutchie to the left hand side during my phone discussions with Fair Trading, AFCA, ACCC , ASIC and RBA....( can tell I didn't have the best of mornings )

But there was some progress, and there was some genuine interest and advice.

What that means who knows.

Re: eBay Managed Payments vs PayPal ??? * Forced managed payments

k1ooo-slr-sales — Wed, 05 May 2021 13:50:40 GMT

(just replying at the end of the thread and not in reply to any particular poster)

Having spent a bit of time reading and posting on Managed Payment threads today I have found something that might explain why Managed Payments don’t include Bank Transfers for purchases.

eBay Money Back Guarantee policy says to be eligible:

You must complete and pay for your purchase on eBay.com.au using an eligible payment method at checkout;

The MBG policy says that:

Items paid for using any other type of payment method not listed above (such as bank transfer, cash, money orders, escrow services)

(spoiler shows screen capture from MBG policy)

https://www.ebay.com.au/help/policies/ebay-money-back-guarantee-policy/ebay-money-back-guarantee-policy?id=4210&st=12&pos=1&query=eBay%20Money%20Back%20Guarantee%20policy&intent=Money%20back&docId=HELP1238

If Bank Transfers were allowed through Managed Payments then eBay would need to include these under the MBG.

Re: eBay Managed Payments vs PayPal ??? * Forced managed payments

case2018 — Wed, 05 May 2021 14:30:52 GMT

Interesting.

I know there'll be some policy or definition to explain but still....

To register for managed payments eBay require members Australian bank account details. This is the specific requirement, acceptance, and exchange of account information members furbish to eBay.

Payments are now sent and received to and from those eBay members bank accounts via an eBay fund in the middle ( managed by Ayden ) , and under the title of managed payments.

I am currently receiving payments transfer to my Australian bank account for eBay sales from Ayden Australia. So there's no doubt there's bank transfers involved in this process...obviously has to be.

I am thinking maybe eBay are saying there is no member coverage or recourse should person to person direct bank account info be exchanged and then bank to bank transfer instigated directly without processing through managed payments prompts.

However paying via managed payments still involves bank transfers.

We can call a duck a chicken as many times as we want but it's still a duck, as fowl as they may be.

If this was an unavoidable overriding charge for managing all payments then why wouldn't the 2.5% also apply on top of the continuing PayPal fees ?

and let's not be naïve , the only payment option that I can see removed from listing and payment processes is the direct bank payment option.

Re: eBay Managed Payments vs PayPal ??? * Forced managed payments

case2018 — Wed, 05 May 2021 21:13:40 GMT

In the detail lies the cunning, which your post has surely helped me with.

Being the seller we're required to register for MP and also accept bank transfers from eBay/Ayden, as apposed to accepting a bank transfer from customer.

The closest eBay managed payments will come to allowing a bank transfer from a buyer is permitting purchase using a debit card, which in short is :

A debit card (also known as a bank card, plastic card or check card) is a plastic payment card that can be used instead of cash when making purchases. It is similar to a credit card, but unlike a credit card, the money is immediately transferred directly from the cardholder's bank account to pay for the transaction.