topic AP Extra Cover Lesson in Selling

AP Extra Cover Lesson

tastek — Wed, 17 Nov 2021 12:55:13 GMT

eBay item number: 143604835528

I, the seller, was bullied into making a full refund for one of two fragile crystal glasses (adequately packaged but broken in transit) with false assertions from the buyer that the AP claim was the seller's responsibility. The buyer refused to follow the AP claim process for compensation and disposed of the evidence and packaging after getting his refund.

REASONING - Being my first breakage (a newbie) after sending over 80 fine crystal pieces Australia wide (all with extra cover), getting repeated eBay "Return requests" for this item, with no suitable options (Accept return/Full Refund/Partial refund/Message buyer) to settle the case, exhaustive messaging with the buyer, my eagerness to retain my 100% feedback rating and the fact I am still holding a AP receipt which reads inter alia "Extra Cover - Article Value $300.00 ... You need to retain this invoice in order to make an extra claim", I relented and gave the buyer a full refund.

To top it off, I received my first negative feedback for a throw away comment in my final message to the buyer after learning of his actions, voiding any possible claim. Further, I can't leave negative feedback for the buyer who misled me. eBay would be nothing without sellers, is this what I pay my 13.5% (final value fee on item + postage) for? Where are the seller protections?

The lesson is:
NEVER, NEVER, EVER GIVE A REFUND TO A BUYER FOR A BREAKAGE IN TRANSIT, WHERE YOU HAVE EXTRA COVER WITH AP (Its the Buyer's responsibility to claim compensation from AP)

Re: AP Extra Cover Lesson

padi*0409 — Wed, 17 Nov 2021 13:18:02 GMT

Anecdotally AP require parcels packed adequately to withstand a 20Kg weight dropped on them from waist height. Would your parcel have withstood that ? Was it double boxed with bubble wrap/ packing beads in both boxes?

If the answer's no, then AP would not have refunded the buyer even if they had taken the parcel into a PO.

AP are VERY reluctant to refund damage to any fragile items at all.

Sellers haven't been able to leave negs for buyers in over 10 years, and if a seller leaves a feedback for a buyer with a negative comment the seller can be sanctioned by eBay for doing that.

Re: AP Extra Cover Lesson

tastek — Wed, 17 Nov 2021 13:42:08 GMT

Thanks for your reply, but you are missing the point.

As I stipulated, the crystal was adequately packaged, but my packaging was never assessed by AP.

Who would send valuable, fragile items with AP without extra cover? The point is, AP will never get to pay compensation unless the buyer undertakes the claim process, thus making the payment for extra cover futile and worthless without the buyer's cooperation.

I have not left any feedback for the buyer.

Re: AP Extra Cover Lesson

sugar249 — Wed, 17 Nov 2021 19:13:58 GMT

@tastek wrote:

As I stipulated, the crystal was adequately packaged,

I think you have missed the point, if the item broke it was obviously not adequately packaged.

It is a contradiction to say it was adequately packaged but to have it broken.

Stop blaming the buyer for your mistake.

Re: AP Extra Cover Lesson

springyzone — Wed, 17 Nov 2021 22:05:54 GMT

I can see why you are upset as you feel if the buyer had gone to Australia Post, they could have received the full refund from them, not from you. You feel as if you paid that extra insurance for nothing.

I had a look at the item and also the feedback.

It says you never mentioned extra insurance cover in the listing and he never asked for it.

That last bit would be true because these days, with ebay & paypal claim processes available to a customer if things go wrong, they don't generally need it.

There is no guarantee Australia Post would have paid up for breakage as those glasses do look quite fragile and delicate. I think the buyer would have had a job on his hands to get a refund.

The trouble as I see it is you can advise sellers never to give a refund for a breakage in transit but the reality is, it is out of a seller's hands to some extent if a buyer opens a claim. And buyers will open claims as it is easier and more straight forward, no messing around taking packaging in to a post office and putting in claims and risking missing out if the process takes them over the 30 days in which they can make an ebay claim.

You can't blame a buyer for tossing the packaging and broken glass out once they had a refund.

I think this is just going to be one of the risks you will have to take if you sell delicate items. Some buyers may co operate but many won't, not if they can make a straight forward ebay claim from their armchair.

Re: AP Extra Cover Lesson

tastek — Wed, 17 Nov 2021 23:11:15 GMT

Thank you for your reply, but by your reasoning, no receiver of fragile goods sent with AP and "extra cover" would ever be able to make a claim, it would always be the senders packaging at fault. It only needs an undue, excessive force in the chain (sender to receiver) to cause a breakage.

I blame AP for the breakage but will never see compensation. The buyer misled me in our communications, was uncooperative in the claim process and signed for a parcel clearly marked "Fragile" that would have rattled in his hands.

Re: AP Extra Cover Lesson

imastawka — Wed, 17 Nov 2021 23:38:24 GMT

Marking it 'Fragile' or 'Handle with care' isn't enough
While we don't actually offer a 'Fragile' service, we'll always try to handle items with care. But writing on your item won't protect it when it's in a mail bag or being processed through sorting equipment.

Packaging hints & tips - Australia Post (auspost.com.au)

Re: AP Extra Cover Lesson

tastek — Thu, 18 Nov 2021 00:14:11 GMT

Where is the Un-helpful button?

Re: AP Extra Cover Lesson

padi*0409 — Thu, 18 Nov 2021 00:27:48 GMT

@tastek wrote:

Where is the Un-helpful button?

It disappeared many years ago the - same as the facility for sellers leaving negs for buyers, it was used by members as a retaliation device.

You have been given helpful advice on packaging for fragile items, use that knowledge in future to unsure your glasses don't get broken in transit.

Re: AP Extra Cover Lesson

jellybirddesigns — Thu, 18 Nov 2021 00:38:21 GMT

Unfortunately, once a buyer opens a case for Not as Described, you will find you HAVE to refund or pay to have the item sent back to you (obviously you wouldn't). If you don't approve the refund, Ebay steps in and does it for you and gives you a defect as a bonus.

Ebay is very black and white on this and it's irrelevant to them whether the buyer is helpful or not.

Whilst I checked the Aus Post site to check that it is the buyer who is supposed to make a claim in the event of damaged items, I've also had great success by contacting Aus Post via PM on their Facebook Page. Explain the situation to them in a friendly manner. Show them photos of the damage and tell them that your buyer has been reimbursed by Ebay. They might say that the items were not adequately packed and you can probably argue with them all day about it, but perhaps say that you're an experiences glassware seller with many transactions and that this is the first time, so it's plausible there was some mishap in transit where the package was subject to greater risk of damage than normal.

You never know what Aus Post might do, and they could apply a refund at their discretion.

Finally buyers can only receive positive feedback from sellers, so DO NOT leave a false positive as the buyer can get it removed.

Re: AP Extra Cover Lesson

tastek — Thu, 18 Nov 2021 00:46:54 GMT

Thank you for your helpful reply, you have nailed it, there is no incentive for a buyer to enter a claim's process with AP when they already have eBay's "Money Back Guarantee". The AP claim process may be long (i don't know) and have a strong likelihood of rejection. It follows, that the SELLER, of any valuable article (fragile or not) on eBay, that is packaged properly, sent with AP including extra cover and is damaged in transit, HAS NO PROTECTION. So why ever purchase AP extra cover again?

Re: AP Extra Cover Lesson

jellybirddesigns — Thu, 18 Nov 2021 00:55:53 GMT

I guess there is a choice to be made. You have had a successful run of over 80 transactions with 1 issue. You can either continue in the same way, knowing that 99% of your items will not have a problem, OR you can stop sending fragile items and make them pickup only.

You can, however, mark this loss down on your taxes.

Re: AP Extra Cover Lesson

tastek — Thu, 18 Nov 2021 01:03:43 GMT

Thank you for your helpful reply, I have spent too much time on this already but I may follow your advice and contact AP, although as you will have read on AP's website, the onus is on the recipient (buyer) to claim for a damaged item and the sender (seller) to claim for a lost item.

Re: AP Extra Cover Lesson

jellybirddesigns — Thu, 18 Nov 2021 01:09:48 GMT

Definitely worth it to contact them tomorrow. They are really busy though and may take a day to get back to you, but you have nothing to lose.

I think that once you explain that you have no protection because the buyer has already been automatically refunded and refusing to co-operate further, then hopefully they will understand your predicament.

Re: AP Extra Cover Lesson

tastek — Thu, 18 Nov 2021 01:12:03 GMT

I have sold over 80 glasses in less than ten transactions, not all on eBay. The market for hand made crystal in Australia is small and I doubt "pickup only" in regional Tasmania would succeed. I am not in business, I am just selling my mother's collection. Thank you for your input.

Re: AP Extra Cover Lesson

jellybirddesigns — Thu, 18 Nov 2021 01:40:33 GMT

Understood.

Let us know what AP says!

Oh, and put that buyer on your blocked list.

Re: AP Extra Cover Lesson

gutterpunkz05 — Thu, 18 Nov 2021 03:00:22 GMT

The AP claim process is totally irrelevant to the buyer, as you are responsible for ensuring the item is received in the condition as listed. Your responsibility to the buyer does not end with handing the item to AP.

Re: AP Extra Cover Lesson

sugar249 — Thu, 18 Nov 2021 03:10:53 GMT

@gutterpunkz05 wrote:
The AP claim process is totally irrelevant to the buyer, as you are responsible for ensuring the item is received in the condition as listed. Your responsibility to the buyer does not end with handing the item to AP.

Exactly, and it is interesting that the OP still blames the buyer for receiving the broken item. But I guess it is easier to deflect blame to everyone but themselves for shody packaging.

Re: AP Extra Cover Lesson

e_purchasing — Thu, 18 Nov 2021 06:54:30 GMT

Firstly , why did you give a refund? As with all states, there is a provision in their respective goods acts that state in basic terms that if delivery is by carrier (ie Aust Post) then goods are deemed delivered when you hand it to the carrier. Here is the provision for Tassie

https://www.legislation.tas.gov.au/view/html/inforce/current/act-1896-014#GS37@EN

It is also a term in Aust Post agreement that where damage has occurred in transit, the addressee (ie receiver) is required to lodge a compensation claim.

As long as you genuinely packed the item for reasonable handling and transport, there are no other ifs or buts.

Let me also say that even if your buyer escalated the matter and EBAY gave them a refund, you could take eBay to fair trading citing the same legislation. Ebay is not entitled to refund from your pocket regardless of what they state in their user agreement as eBay's terms do not override legislation. Ebay can give a refund out of eBay's pocket , but not yours.

Re: AP Extra Cover Lesson

e_purchasing — Thu, 18 Nov 2021 07:01:25 GMT

One extra note, don't waste your money on extra cover , unless the value is $200 or more (as Auspost has $100+post cost as standard cover), you are better off to double box glassware for extra protection that cannot be disputed