topic Re: Bring Back Negative Feedback For Non-Payers in Selling

Bring Back Negative Feedback For Non-Payers

atticspiders — Sun, 06 Feb 2022 23:34:39 GMT

I'm not asking for any help just having a RANT. I can't believe the number of times I have viewed feedback in the past for people who have bid on items just to see that sellers are having to resort to giving Positive Feedback (thus increasing the buyers score) just so they can get out there that a buyer doesn't pay or contact or apologise . Many of my friends that sell are also now saying they are noticing an increase in this.

I changed all of my sales to buy it now a while ago to combat this problem. I wonder if these non-payers ever have any action taken against them by eBay, if not they will just go on doing this and frustrating sellers.

Re: Bring Back Negative Feedback For Non-Payers

love_of_cars — Sun, 06 Feb 2022 23:48:01 GMT

eBay can't do that, it will cause harm to buyers. eBay is always on the side of buyers.

Re: Bring Back Negative Feedback For Non-Payers

sandypebbles — Sun, 06 Feb 2022 23:50:54 GMT

You will need to give your rant, as you call it to eBay (they won't do it though, the rant has been had hundreds of times by many hundreds of people)

However, sellers need to stop rewarding and start reporting these 'buyers'

The people rewarding non payers with positive feedback are helping these fake buyers keep on fake buying

It is NOT a warning to anyone looking at the feedback, nobody knows who the non payer since the 'buyer' ID is not seen by anyone except the seller is so that excuse is moot

Nobody else would have a clue who to beware of or avoid selling too

Not only will eBay remove the comment but leave the green tick there, they will also ping the seller's account for breaching eBay policy

Plus by not reporting the 'buyer' for non payment, the 'buyer' avoids getting a strike against their account and sellers who do have the appropriate blocks in pace which would otherwise weed out these time

wasters get hit up by them

eBay most certainly will not take any action where a seller has chosen to give non payers false positive feedback

Re: Bring Back Negative Feedback For Non-Payers

springyzone — Sun, 06 Feb 2022 23:57:35 GMT

I don't think ebay will bring it back. I could be wrong.

But it did cause a lot of resentment years ago when sellers would hold off on feedback and give a neg if the buyer dared give a neg. Sort of **bleep** for tat. Almost like blackmail. I am sure lots of buyers would have complained to ebay about it. I was a seller too at the time but even so, I resented how some sellers were abusing the system.

Sellers have got their ways of getting even. If someone doesn't pay, you can open an unpaid claim against them and my understanding is that gives the buyer one strike. Two strikes in eg 6 months to a year and they could find themselves blocked from bidding or buying with a number of sellers.

Ebay is up against a lot of other online sales sites these days, it can't afford to turn buyers off, which could happen if sellers gave buyers a blast in negative feedback. At the moment if a buyer doesn't like a false positive feedback, they can get it removed.

Giving someone a non payment strike and then blocking them is probably your best bet.

Re: Bring Back Negative Feedback For Non-Payers

jellybirddesigns — Mon, 07 Feb 2022 00:34:17 GMT

None of the other big platforms such as Amazon and Etsy offer the ability to give buyer feedback at all.

Ebay is the only platform that still gives sellers some ability to do so. I can imagine it will only be a matter of time until it is done away with.

The only steps you can take to protect yourself are to set your items to BIN (which you say you have done) - just make sure you add on the requirement of "Immediate Payment".

For those sellers who still auction, the only things they can do are to make sure their buyer blocks are in place and to also check out the buyer prior to sending. If there are any red flags, then better to cancel the transaction and block the buyer.

Re: Bring Back Negative Feedback For Non-Payers

repentatleisure1952 — Mon, 07 Feb 2022 00:40:48 GMT

@atticspiders wrote:
I can't believe the number of times I have viewed feedback in the past for people who have bid on items just to see that sellers are having to resort to giving Positive Feedback (thus increasing the buyers score) just so they can get out there that a buyer doesn't pay or contact or apologise .

I never underestimate the power of stupid sellers in large groups.

I know you don't want help.
However have you ever considered using the correct Unpaid Item Process & setting your Buyer Requirements to block those with 2 or more UPI Strikes in a 12 month period?

Now I have a question... or two.
What would leaving a negative for a deadbeat do to them?... apart from making you feel good.
How would a negative stop a buyer from using BIN or sniping an auction?

Re: Bring Back Negative Feedback For Non-Payers

countessalmirena — Mon, 07 Feb 2022 06:04:44 GMT

There's no doubt that buyers hated receiving negative feedback.

There's also no doubt that quite a few buyers flaunt their 100% positive feedback as though it were a banner of great magnificence. The number of times I've seen a buyer post on these boards with a situation they don't like, and they mention something about what a valuable and good buyer they are with their 100% feedback...!

Once eBay introduced the Ban On Negative Feedback In Response-Ectenic Sellers (BONFIRES - but it's not an eBay acronym, I admit), there was a shift in perspective. Sellers were by and large no longer there as "part of the community" in the old classical sense of the original eBay, so much as there to make money and be... quite simply ... "sellers". They were expected to be professional in how they listed, how they concluded the sale, how they dispatched the goods, how they handled returns, and in how they responded to buyer feedback.

Don't give a buyer any feedback if they are a bad buyer. Instead, do two things:

report them to eBay under the Abusive Buyer Policy (as long as the behaviour is indeed engaging in unacceptable buying behaviours as defined by eBay under the policy), and
open a Non-Paying Bidder (NPB) report which, if the buyer doesn't make the payment within the required amount of time, will result in an Unpaid Item Strike on the buyer's account.

The strike will be invisible, but two of these over 12 months will result in the buyer being unable to buy from any seller who has set up their Buyer Requirements to block bids or purchases from any buyer who has at least 2 unpaid item strikes over the last 12 months. That's a better outcome for sellers who are focused primarily on having successfully completed transactions on eBay, with money coming in and plenty of both new and repeat customers.

Re: Bring Back Negative Feedback For Non-Payers

sna-4293 — Thu, 24 Feb 2022 07:33:06 GMT

MusicStack and Discogs also allow sellers to leave feedback to buyers, both negative and positive.

Re: Bring Back Negative Feedback For Non-Payers

davewil1964 — Thu, 24 Feb 2022 07:54:44 GMT

Hardly big players. Extremely niche.

Most importantly, in reference to eBay, not eBay

Re: Bring Back Negative Feedback For Non-Payers

zanadoo_56 — Thu, 24 Feb 2022 08:00:38 GMT

This is in the days when sellers could leave feedback and situations with the dodgy Chinese sellers (in my experience lately they have been very good) was really awful. I once won an auction for dolls clothes at a very low bid and the Chinese seller then upped the postage. I was very new to eBay and didn't know that wasn't allowed. I paid for the items and discovered they was not even remotely like the photos - the quality was appalling. I gave the seller bad feedback. I received a nasty message from the seller saying if I didn't withdraw my feedback I would get bad feedback as well....very bad in fact. I was scared enough to comply. Being threatened made me very nervous about buying on eBay for some time.

I get the sellers would like to leave bad feedback for bad buyers who deserve it, but allowing it means some sellers would abuse the system by leaving revenge ratings to cover their own bad service. I guess that's one reason why it was withdrawn.

Re: Bring Back Negative Feedback For Non-Payers

kopenhagen5 — Thu, 24 Feb 2022 11:48:39 GMT

Bring Back Negative Feedback For Non-Payers

Totally pointless.

Non-payers can still bid in the last minutes or make purchases irrespective of what their feedback is.

The strike system eBay put in place works. Use it.

2 non payer strikes or more issued by sellers, and non payers cannot bid or buy for 12 months.

Re: Bring Back Negative Feedback For Non-Payers

colic2bullsgirlore — Thu, 24 Feb 2022 20:15:44 GMT

Simple to solve but relatively unlikely....

When a NPB strike is recorded on a buyer's ID Ebay could leave an unemotive "buyer did not pay" with a crossed $ sign on the errant buyers feedback affecting the percentage. The blockers could block, the lookers and blockers could look and block. The numpties that leave negative positives could SEE another method and that there is an ebay god and they are good .

The genuine ebay "swap" MEMBERS that are buyers and sellers would feel a little less aggrieved....... That scenario would be conducive to auctions reappearing (read more excitement = more prospective buyers here)

.............and then.....

there was peace in the valley...thank your mother for the rabbits

Re: Bring Back Negative Feedback For Non-Payers

*sons_and_daughters* — Thu, 24 Feb 2022 20:29:28 GMT

@kopenhagen5 wrote:
Bring Back Negative Feedback For Non-Payers

Totally pointless.

Non-payers can still bid in the last minutes or make purchases irrespective of what their feedback is.

The strike system eBay put in place works. Use it.

2 non payer strikes or more issued by sellers, and non payers cannot bid or buy for 12 months.

That is only true for sellers who have buyer requirement blocks in place. Sellers who don't have blocks, those buyers can still buy (and probably not pay), as much as they like.

That is why negs for buyers is pointless. It doesn't stop them buying. As mentioned, they can still bid, and they can still use the buy it now option. By the time they have hit buy now, it's too late for a seller to be able to check their feedback to see if they are pests. A buyer could have 10,000 negs in a month and it would never affect their ability to buy.

Re: Bring Back Negative Feedback For Non-Payers

springyzone — Thu, 24 Feb 2022 23:45:41 GMT

@kopenhagen5 wrote:
Bring Back Negative Feedback For Non-Payers

Totally pointless.

Non-payers can still bid in the last minutes or make purchases irrespective of what their feedback is.

The strike system eBay put in place works. Use it.

2 non payer strikes or more issued by sellers, and non payers cannot bid or buy for 12 months.

--------------------------
And therein lies the problem. Non paying bidders can still bid, they could have 10,000 negs as tipping point says, but could still bid on items of sellers who don't have blocks in place.

There are some things ebay won't be doing (or at least I don't think so)
-returning to the system where sellers can leave a neg
-leaving a 'Buyer did not pay' comment in feedback for a sale that resulted in a NPB strike (which colic suggested)

Those things are more or less public shamings and ebay is steering clear of that.

What ebay could and should do though is they should be putting blocks in place for buyers who receive more than 2 strikes in a certain period. General blocks that would stop that buyer from buying from anyone for a period of time eg one month. As well as allowing sellers to place their own permanent blocks. The buyers would need to be sent a private message to tell them buying priveleges had been suspended for the month because of the non payments.
That would be one way of making the buyer aware of a consequence without making it public.

But I doubt ebay will do even that, because they are making some money on each sale, even if it falls through. There are some sellers out there who won't go through the motions to reclaim fees taken either. Another win win for ebay.
I was recently talking to an ebay seller who was complaining they had to constantly chat to ebay about people who opened item not received against a sale, when the sale was for a pick up only item. Even when such a sale was cancelled and money refunded, the seller was still losing about 30c each time. Not a lot, but it adds up.

Re: Bring Back Negative Feedback For Non-Payers

countessalmirena — Fri, 25 Feb 2022 04:58:07 GMT

springyzone, as far as the Buyer Requirements says, when a seller sets up a block based upon Unpaid Item Strikes, it prevents an NPB from buying OR bidding.

See my post here. (And the Buyer Requirements help page.)

Re: Bring Back Negative Feedback For Non-Payers

kopenhagen5 — Fri, 25 Feb 2022 06:51:27 GMT

That is only true for sellers who have buyer requirement blocks in place. Sellers who don't have blocks, those buyers can still buy (and probably not pay), as much as they like.

You're absolutely right, I forgot to put that in. Thanks for fixing my late night faux pas. 😥

Re: Bring Back Negative Feedback For Non-Payers

springyzone — Fri, 25 Feb 2022 20:52:06 GMT

@countessalmirena wrote:
springyzone, as far as the Buyer Requirements says, when a seller sets up a block based upon Unpaid Item Strikes, it prevents an NPB from buying OR bidding.

See my post here. (And the Buyer Requirements help page.)

Yes, and that's a great link too, but what it requires is that the seller set up the blocks.

What I was suggesting was that ebay itself should introduce an automatic universal blocking system of a temporary nature eg one month, for those buyers who exceed a certain number of non payment strikes within a short period.

This, as well as a system where the seller can set permanent blocks for their own reasons.

I can't see ebay introducing such a system though because as I said, it would hurt their profit. They profit even when a sale falls through. Even when a buyer does the wrong thing and withdraws from a sale, the seller is left with a small out of pocket fee. That part is wrong too (in my eyes). If a seller wins a NPI case but the buyer is still to be refunded, that 30 c fee should come out of the total refund to the buyer, the seller should be awarded all fees back.

Re: Bring Back Negative Feedback For Non-Payers

countessalmirena — Sat, 26 Feb 2022 20:55:23 GMT

Ah, I see what you mean. You’re right – eBay is unlikely (in the extreme) to make it a default setting or a universally imposed sanction upon buyers. They provide sellers some tools for blocking NPBs but the sellers must actively search out and use those tools.

Re: Bring Back Negative Feedback For Non-Payers

springyzone — Sat, 26 Feb 2022 22:05:23 GMT

It is very much in their interests not to make it too easy for sellers. Obviously the regular sellers will have it down pat but the occasional sellers often either aren't familiar with exactly how to install blocks or get their fees back or else can't be bothered if the amount is small.

I can vouch for this as some years ago one of my daughters had a sale fall through (no payment) and I had to talk her into opening a NPI claim as she kept saying that for a small amount, she couldn't be bothered, she wasn't sure how to do it and it would take too much time figuring it out for a few cents.

Now I know it is probably easy enough to do, just saying that at the start of the process, a newbie doesn't know how easy or complicated it will be so some will definitely walk away.

And a lot of new sellers would have no idea the blocks options are there. I remember back in the day when my sister & I were selling, we had been at it a couple of months before we found the options. Oh, happy day that was.

Re: Bring Back Negative Feedback For Non-Payers

louisas_lines — Sun, 27 Feb 2022 11:20:10 GMT

Is the non-payment strike still active??

The last time I had a non-payer, after waiting out the 4 days to open a non-payment case, ebay only gave the option to Cancel or Send a message. When I cancelled the transaction was over and also any opportunity to give feedback?

Has anyone actually opened a non-payment case lately??