topic Re: PayPal does not help out sellers at all in Selling

PayPal does not help out sellers at all

myhobbystore — Tue, 18 Dec 2012 21:28:16 GMT

How's this
A buyer buys the item. I send it to his address. He then contacts me and said that he wants his money back as I sent it via a courier and not aust post. I don't state it in my listing how I send it. He had not received the item. I said, that's fine, tell the courier to return it for a refund less shipping fees.
He goes to PayPal, tells them the story.
I provide proof of tracking, I have the courier run sheet, tracking number, everything and yet PayPal ruled in his favour as I stated that I would agree to a refund when the item was returned. PayPal gave him all his money back too.
So now, I have a neg, no product and no money. Where is the seller protection?

Re: PayPal does not help out sellers at all

***super_nova*** — Tue, 18 Dec 2012 22:00:50 GMT

He had not received the item. I said, that's fine, tell the courier to return it for a refund less shipping fees.

If the buyer did not receive the item how could he send it back? If they did not receive it you need to refund in full, not just the price of the item.

Re: PayPal does not help out sellers at all

tall_bearded — Tue, 18 Dec 2012 22:04:06 GMT

Ring PayPal and demand to speak to a supervisor.

Tell them they have two alternatives. They either return all the monies to your account within 24 hours or they will be responding a complaint lodged with the Financial Ombudsman Service.

Then if the monies aren’t refunded in the time allowed lodge the complaint. What you have written in post is more than sufficient detail required.

Link http://www.fos.org.au/centric/home_page/resolving_disputes/how_to_lodge_a_dispute.jsp

Re: PayPal does not help out sellers at all

***super_nova*** — Tue, 18 Dec 2012 22:04:58 GMT

The first party of my previous post was a reply to this bit

I don't state it in my listing how I send it.

Maybe you should ........................

Re: PayPal does not help out sellers at all

tall_bearded — Tue, 18 Dec 2012 22:11:30 GMT

Response to post !

The fact the buyer didn’t receive the item is irrelevant.

The seller has provided proof of shipping. Therefore, PayPal has failed to abide by their own policies, namely that part of the agreement which states, if shipping is proved, they will not deduct monies from the sellers account.

Re: PayPal does not help out sellers at all

myhobbystore — Tue, 18 Dec 2012 22:39:39 GMT

I finally got off the phone to PayPal.

He stated that the rule is that even though I provided proof of postage, and provided proof that it was shipped to the correct location, I still lost as it was not delivered.

Buyers now have no responsibility.

I asked for a supervisor who refunded my money and stated that it was a good will gesture....

Re: PayPal does not help out sellers at all

myhobbystore — Tue, 18 Dec 2012 22:41:58 GMT

There was two attempts at delivery.

The couriers also rang him twice and left a message asking for a suitable time to redeliver.

He didn't return their phone calls.

Fastway does not charge to attempt to redeliver.

All he had to do was return a phone call or reply to the calling cards. Obviously that was too hard for him!

Re: PayPal does not help out sellers at all

jensmanchester-australia — Tue, 18 Dec 2012 22:48:48 GMT

I finally got off the phone to PayPal.

He stated that the rule is that even though I provided proof of postage, and provided proof that it was shipped to the correct location, I still lost as it was not delivered.

Buyers now have no responsibility.

I asked for a supervisor who refunded my money and stated that it was a good will gesture....

When dealing with Paypal you have to make it very clear that under the Australian Policy only proof of postage is required and not proof of delivery - most of the customer service reps have no idea of the policies.

Re: PayPal does not help out sellers at all

myhobbystore — Tue, 18 Dec 2012 22:52:46 GMT

Thanks Jen. I will remember that in future dealings.

Re: PayPal does not help out sellers at all

phorum_junkie* — Tue, 18 Dec 2012 23:31:34 GMT

When dealing with Paypal you have to make it very clear that under the Australian Policy only proof of postage is required and not proof of delivery

That applies when you are using AP services.

I would have called Paypal as soon as the buyer opened a dispute and would have told them to check the tracking properly as the courier company had attempted delivery twice so I I consider that as confirming delivery and that if they found against me I would be taking the matter up with the ombudsman.

You were probably ill advised to offer a refund of any amount if it was returned to you, much better to tell them it is awaiting delivery and all they have to do is contact the courier.

Re: PayPal does not help out sellers at all

cq_tech — Tue, 18 Dec 2012 23:43:07 GMT

Probably goes without saying, but don't forget to add this buyer to your BBL (I bet everybody else will have already done so). 😉

Re: PayPal does not help out sellers at all

myhobbystore — Tue, 18 Dec 2012 23:46:32 GMT

I have that onmall my listings.

Paypal have told me it doesn't matter. Even though the contract is between myself and the buyer and for them to purchase they have to abide by the terms and conditions on the listing.

Re: PayPal does not help out sellers at all

***super_nova*** — Tue, 18 Dec 2012 23:54:15 GMT

As i said I would be furious if I chose the standard AP delivery and you would have sent with FASTWAY, it is irrelevant if they charge or not, if person works full time they cannot make time to be home waiting. Last time I had something delivered with FASTWAY they only gave me a date, not even am/pm, I waited all day, and they came the next day!!!

The fact remains, the buyer does not have the item, because you sent it such a way they cannot receive it.

TB i recall you telling me not so long ago that it is the buyer's call on how the item is sent, not the seller's. Well, in this case the buyer selected AP service and the item was sent with courier.

Re: PayPal does not help out sellers at all

myhobbystore — Wed, 19 Dec 2012 01:37:15 GMT

My options for delivery are:

Standard

Ap with tracking

Ap registered

Ap express

If he chose standard, where does it say it has to be sent with ap?

If he chose one of the ap options then I would have. As far as I am concerned, standard delivery could mean a guy on a donkey. As long as it gets there and it's trackable.

Re: PayPal does not help out sellers at all

davewil1964 — Wed, 19 Dec 2012 01:59:32 GMT

You'd be in trouble if you tried to send my standard postage by courier. My address is a PO Box.

Re: PayPal does not help out sellers at all

2106greencat — Wed, 19 Dec 2012 02:16:54 GMT

Nova, that is not fair. I use a courier all the time as if I were to send my items via AP it would cost me a fortune (ie: $37.20 to send a $45.95 item to WA) The exact same thing would have happened had AP tried to deliver and the buyer was not home. He would have received a card to call the depot to advise best time to deliver or to authourise safe drop.

Re: PayPal does not help out sellers at all

tall_bearded — Wed, 19 Dec 2012 02:23:52 GMT

Reply to post 12

Yes I did. But I also said it falls to the buyer to exercise that right, and if they don’t that is an implied instruction by the buyer to the seller to make that choice for them.

That is you, can’t on the on hand say, I have the right to choose, and in the same breath say I can’t be bothered making the choice so you make it for me, and then complain about the outcome.

Re: PayPal does not help out sellers at all

patchoo78 — Wed, 19 Dec 2012 02:38:54 GMT

Maybe it would be a good idea to state in your listings that items MAY be sent via courier and for the buyer to advise you if they don't wish it to be sent via courier.

Also, you can't always assume that people are home all day or will be home to collect the package..

It would be something of a hassle for me if I missed the delivery as I would have to chase the courier company down for them to re deliver. If I had the option of choosing courier then I could make sure I'm home when I expect the package to be delivered.

No one in their right mind would pay for Express unless they and the seller were both in Express post zones

Re: PayPal does not help out sellers at all

zanadoo_56 — Wed, 19 Dec 2012 02:45:40 GMT

Not all couriers redeliver. I would not have been happy if I expected the parcel to be delivered by AP and it was sent by courier.

I've had that happen and not only did I have to take time off work to collect the item (the courier closed even earlier than AP would you believe), I had to drive to some godforsaken industrial area in a small town to get it. The business was poorly signposted and I must have driven up and down the road 4 or 5 times until I found it (I finally got there 6 mins before they closed).

AP delivery - carded or safe dropped. Local pickup. No contest really.

The buyer should have contacted the courier company, no doubt about it (assuming messages were left) but even if he had, he expected an AP delivery (after all you didn't mention couriers) as maybe it would have been more convenient for him sent by that method.

Re: PayPal does not help out sellers at all

***super_nova*** — Wed, 19 Dec 2012 03:09:21 GMT

The exact same thing would have happened had AP tried to deliver and the buyer was not home.

Not really, if AP cannot deliver because nobody is here, the item is available to be collected at the PO, which in my case is 1/2 km from here. FASTWAY depot is about 30km drive or 2 hours on train. In others areas the depot may be even further, and for people who work full time it may not be possible to collect; nor it is possible for somebody else wait for courier all day. Best option for courier delivery in that case would be to send to workplace, if that would be OK with the buyer's employer.

Postage is generaly understood as sending something through post not courier, so unless it is made clear the buyer will assume that AP will deliver the item.

Cat, if you only send by courier and that is clearly stated in the top part of the listing, then it is up to buyer to decide if it is acceptable for them.