topic Re: Ebay return with a twist in Selling

Ebay return with a twist

jebedar123 — Mon, 19 Sep 2022 08:47:18 GMT

I sold a laptop. The buyer complained about the battery and took it for service to check they said it needed to change the battery and the whole top chassis of the laptop (all free of charge because it is still under warranty).

The buyer returned the laptop, and so I took it to repairs to get it checked. To my surprise, the technician told me it had already been serviced with a new battery and a keyboard while it was in the buyer's custody.

So my question is, since the item has been tampered with and modified, can I refuse the return? Consequently, this isn't the exact item I sold; it has new/different parts from what I sold. So, can I refuse the return based on it alone, right? They shouldn't have sent the laptop for service before sending it back, right?

I appreciate any help you can provide.

Re: Ebay return with a twist

padi*0409 — Mon, 19 Sep 2022 08:53:58 GMT

Why on earth would you want to refuse the return - you've got the laptop back in better condition than you sent it, at no cost to yourself.......

Re: Ebay return with a twist

jebedar123 — Mon, 19 Sep 2022 09:19:20 GMT

Thanks for the input. BTW, It is a great laptop, but that's not the point. I want to sell it! Do I have grounds to refuse the return? It isn't the same equipment that was sold. The buyer sent it to be fixed without my authorization, so he shouldn't be able to return it, right?

I'm not looking for the ethical thing. I want this sold. If I had to re-enlist again I'd have to put in the description as "Refurbished" or "Serviced"... the equipment was devalued in my opinion.

Has anyone ever seen this thing happen before?

Input is appreciated.

Re: Ebay return with a twist

padi*0409 — Mon, 19 Sep 2022 09:23:50 GMT

@jebedar123 wrote:

If I had to re-enlist again I'd have to put in the description as "Refurbished" or "Serviced"... the equipment was devalued in my opinion.

No, just say new battery and keyboard replaced under warranty, that still has "X" months to go.

Re: Ebay return with a twist

jebedar123 — Mon, 19 Sep 2022 09:36:17 GMT

I 100% agree with you if that was the case, but I don't think you understood my question. It is about how ebay should be ruling here.

Quoting ebay "If an item is returned used, altered or damaged, it may be appropriate to issue a partial refund to the buyer.".

Note the "altered". The question is simple, I want this sold. I have documentation that the buyer "altered" the item before returning it. Can I refuse the return?

BTW, this question was already posted and answered but it was in the USA community by mistake, here it is:

https://community.ebay.com/t5/Ask-a-Mentor/Ebay-return-with-a-twist/m-p/33226317#M273941

Re: Ebay return with a twist

padi*0409 — Mon, 19 Sep 2022 10:04:47 GMT

@jebedar123 wrote:

Quoting ebay "If an item is returned used, altered or damaged, it may be appropriate to issue a partial refund to the buyer.".

eBay may well see it as the laptop being "improved" through a warranty repair, and rule against you if the buyer opens a formal dispute with them.

Note the "altered". The question is simple, I want this sold. I have documentation that the buyer "altered" the item before returning it. Can I refuse the return?

Read what I said above, but note that if you refuse a return and eBay rules against you, you will have a defect put on your selling account, and as a "new seller" that's the last thing you need.........

Edit. Just refund the buyer, you're in a win/win situation, the laptop is in better condition now compared to when you sold it.

Re: Ebay return with a twist

jebedar123 — Mon, 19 Sep 2022 11:43:23 GMT

"Read what I said above, but note that if you refuse a return and eBay rules against you, you will have a defect put on your selling account, and as a "new seller" that's the last thing you need........."

I didn't say anything about refusing a return. I want eBay to rule in my favour. But still, you have a good point that should be mentioned in this conversation.

"eBay may well see it as the laptop being "improved" through a warranty repair, and rule against you if the buyer opens a formal dispute with them."

Read what I said about the "cause" of the return. The buyer says the laptop isn't what it was advertised because the battery was faulty. If that's the case, eBay shouldn't honour the return because as you said... the item is better and "improved" so there is no reason to return the item since it is working perfectly with extra 3 years warranty on the battery and keyboard... understand what I'm saying now?

Regardless, what you've mentioned has helped me think a bit.

Re: Ebay return with a twist

padi*0409 — Mon, 19 Sep 2022 12:22:05 GMT

@jebedar123 wrote:

Read what I said about the "cause" of the return. The buyer says the laptop isn't what it was advertised because the battery was faulty. If that's the case, eBay shouldn't honour the return because as you said... the item is better and "improved" so there is no reason to return the item since it is working perfectly with extra 3 years warranty on the battery and keyboard... understand what I'm saying now?

But it wasn't just the battery that was faulty, there was apparently a problem with the keyboard as well. As I said before if the buyer opens a formal dispute with eBay through the MBG and you refuse to refund them, eBay will likely rule in the buyer's favour citing that you should have been aware of the problems before listing it - it matters little whether you were or not, the fact is they were faulty and there may be furthur undisclosed problems with the laptop.

eBay will nearly always rule against the seller in disputes, that's well-known on the boards - and in your case since there were proven faults in the laptop, it's even more likely that the dispute will go in the buyers favour.

You are also lucky that the buyer gave you a positive feedback for the transaction, presumably they didn't know of the battery problem at that stage.

I'll advise again, just refund the buyer and relist the laptop - you may get more or less for it the second time around. But by refusing the refund I honestly believe you're on a hiding to nowhere.

Re: Ebay return with a twist

janeababe — Mon, 19 Sep 2022 23:25:32 GMT

@jebedar123 wrote:
I 100% agree with you if that was the case, but I don't think you understood my question. It is about how ebay should be ruling here.
Quoting ebay "If an item is returned used, altered or damaged, it may be appropriate to issue a partial refund to the buyer.".

Note the "altered". The question is simple, I want this sold. I have documentation that the buyer "altered" the item before returning it. Can I refuse the return?

BTW, this question was already posted and answered but it was in the USA community by mistake, here it is:

https://community.ebay.com/t5/Ask-a-Mentor/Ebay-return-with-a-twist/m-p/33226317#M273941

-The laptop has not been altered. It has been repaired. (Under warranty), so no legs to stand on there!

-it was sold used, so no legs to stand on there……

-it isn’t damaged, it’s in better condition now, than when you sold it, so no legs to stand on there, either!

Let’s cut to the crux of it…. You don’t want to part with your $3K!! And that’s what all this is boiling down too.

As ALREADY SUGGESTED….. accept the return, refund the buyer, and relist. You could probably add an extra $100-$200 on it this time because it’s actually in better condition than when you first sold it!

Hype it up….. Brand new blah blah blah………. Etc etc etc…….

Try and be a seller with morals! Because so far, I haven’t seen any from you!

Re: Ebay return with a twist

jebedar123 — Mon, 19 Sep 2022 23:44:42 GMT

I understand what you are saying; however, you also made a big mistake of assuming I have no morals as a seller. I advertised the item and sold it and I don't want to do the work again. It has nothing to do with morals. If the buyer had a problem with the item, he/she/they shouldn't have pressed the buy button! If the item was damaged, they should have sent it back as it was received. Furthermore, I got a great review because I even kept in contact with the buyer after they received and inspected the items and I intend to keep having open communication with the buyer if I can; I want to solve this problem. This world is already screwed up without people with your stand attacking individuals with nothing to back it up.

Unfortunately, this thread was nothing like the one in the eBay USA community where they told exactly what I wanted in a very simple sentence, unfortunately under the wrong jurisdiction.

Re: Ebay return with a twist

*sons_and_daughters* — Tue, 20 Sep 2022 00:01:45 GMT

If you don't want to take the 15 seconds to relist the laptop, throw it in the bin. I seriously don't know what your gripe is. Relisting will get you more money, but if relisting is an issue, chuck it out and get nothing.

The buyer didn't know what they were getting until they received it. They apparently received a lemon. It's been fixed, at their cost. Win win for you...................or not.

These forums aren't in the habit of telling you what you want to hear. They are in the habit of giving facts. If you take offence to that, that is your problem.

Edited to add: You can probably end your Fixems listing. They are gone. Done and dusted. Kaput. Especially with that insane postage cost. Once the ads on the TV end, all interest is lost. Why keep relisting them, that aren't going to sell, yet you aren't interested in relisting your laptop?

Re: Ebay return with a twist

eol-products — Tue, 20 Sep 2022 00:10:21 GMT

These Fixems ( 185575355245 ) just sold a few days ago at a higher price so I don't feel their listing is anything different.

Re: Ebay return with a twist

jebedar123 — Tue, 20 Sep 2022 00:12:33 GMT

It has nothing to do with things that I want to hear or not.

I don't want your opinion about me, my God or my gender (you can have it if you want). Unfortunately, I see myself responding to kids with ZERO feedback on eBay these days where I was really looking for a stable and fruitful community which you are not the representation of.

Had I had, the same type of response in the USA forum (positive or negative), it would just be OK, and I'd accept it. I'm getting the same responses here that I'd get on Reddit and this is nuts! You guys need to do better.

What happened with the young Australians that once we used to be?

You are now muted on my end Sir!

Re: Ebay return with a twist

jellybirddesigns — Tue, 20 Sep 2022 00:23:46 GMT

It's is a weird situation to be in, that's for sure. No idea why a buyer would go to the trouble of having repairs carried out and then send it back. I mean...why not keep it after all that?

However, I don't really see the point of refusing the return. Sending it back to the buyer would probably just result in a case being opened, which can be a lot more risky. The buyer obviously doesn't want to take the chance that something else could go wrong and they returned it on their own dime.

It sounds like the laptop is in better shape than before, so you should have no trouble reselling it. Just refund the buyer, and re-list it. You don't even have to mention that there have been repairs.

Re: Ebay return with a twist

padi*0409 — Tue, 20 Sep 2022 00:27:16 GMT

@jebedar123 wrote:

If the buyer had a problem with the item, he/she/they shouldn't have pressed the buy button!

If the buyer had known there was a problem with the battery and the keyboard they probably would not have bid on the item.

Furthermore, I got a great review because I even kept in contact with the buyer after they received and inspected the items and I intend to keep having open communication with the buyer if I can; I want to solve this problem.

You CAN solve the problem before it gets out of hand and just refund the buyer.

Unfortunately, this thread was nothing like the one in the eBay USA community where they told exactly what I wanted in a very simple sentence, unfortunately under the wrong jurisdiction.

You were told in that thread that US policies are not the same as Australian eBay policies, different countries different rules.

I will add that judging by the amount of feedback the buyer has, they will be very aware of eBay's Money Back Guarantee so I think you can expect them to open a dispute against you with eBay - if they haven't done so already.

Re: Ebay return with a twist

padi*0409 — Tue, 20 Sep 2022 00:37:13 GMT

@jellybirddesigns wrote:

It's is a weird situation to be in, that's for sure. No idea why a buyer would go to the trouble of having repairs carried out and then send it back. I mean...why not keep it after all that?

Jelly, it could be that because it was under warranty the Apple repair shop has just gone ahead and done the repairs needed.

However, I don't really see the point of refusing the return. Sending it back to the buyer would probably just result in a case being opened, which can be a lot more risky. The buyer obviously doesn't want to take the chance that something else could go wrong and they returned it on their own dime.

Exactly my point earlier.

It sounds like the laptop is in better shape than before, so you should have no trouble reselling it. Just refund the buyer, and re-list it. You don't even have to mention that there have been repairs.

No, no need to mention the repairs BUT i would be saying that the laptop now has a new battery and keyboard along with the extended warranty on those parts.

Re: Ebay return with a twist

janeababe — Tue, 20 Sep 2022 02:59:56 GMT

@jebedar123 wrote:
Thanks for the input. BTW, It is a great laptop, but that's not the point. I want to sell it! Do I have grounds to refuse the return? It isn't the same equipment that was sold. The buyer sent it to be fixed without my authorization, so he shouldn't be able to return it, right?

I'm not looking for the ethical thing. I want this sold. If I had to re-enlist again I'd have to put in the description as "Refurbished" or "Serviced"... the equipment was devalued in my opinion.

Has anyone ever seen this thing happen before?

Input is appreciated.

Call this morals do you? Maybe you do!
You lack integrity. This is not an assumption on my part, but concluded by the content of your responses here!

Oh, and BTW….. a lot of members here have a zero feedback account just for posting on the boards. They keep their selling accounts to selling only!

The responders you have on this thread are LONG TERM members, I can guarantee you that!
So be rest assured, the info you get here, is accurate and relevant. (Just not what you obviously want to hear!) ….. but that’s your problem, not ours!

I can also suggest that you have now been added to a few BBL since your little adventure here to our boards. Well done! Nothing like making a few Sellers jobs easier, that’s for sure!

The avenues are open for your buyer! I hope they come here so we can lead them towards a full refund!!! 😉

Re: Ebay return with a twist

padi*0409 — Tue, 20 Sep 2022 04:05:25 GMT

Jane, I don't believe the OP realises what the ramifications will be to their selling account if they continue to deny the buyer their just refund, and a dispute is opened under the MBG.

It's bad enough that the OP has not refunded already, if that dispute is opened straight away a flag goes up on their account, and if eBay has to step in the consequences will be even more severe for them, because the buyer will almost certainly win the dispute.

The auction finished at over double the start price - which presumably the OP would have been happy with if there had only been 1 bid. I'm afraid all I see here is greed and a good possibility that things will go very badly for the OP if they don't do the right thing by the buyer, one of those would be a likely limit on the value of future listings - so they may not be even able to relist the laptop.

Every one of the members responding here has said they see no reason at all for denying the refund.

But hey, what would we know........... but I certainly don't like the odds of the OP winning and keeping their money.

Re: Ebay return with a twist

domino-710 — Tue, 20 Sep 2022 04:17:35 GMT

@jebedar123 wrote:
I sold a laptop. The buyer complained about the battery and took it for service to check they said it needed to change the battery and the whole top chassis of the laptop (all free of charge because it is still under warranty).

The buyer returned the laptop, and so I took it to repairs to get it checked. To my surprise, the technician told me it had already been serviced with a new battery and a keyboard while it was in the buyer's custody.

So my question is, since the item has been tampered with and modified, can I refuse the return? Consequently, this isn't the exact item I sold; it has new/different parts from what I sold. So, can I refuse the return based on it alone, right? They shouldn't have sent the laptop for service before sending it back, right?

I appreciate any help you can provide.

How on earth can you refuse a refund - you've stated the buyer returned the item.

This begs a question - in my mind anyway - why you didn't have the decency - given the item was still under warranty - have these repairs made yourself - BEFORE - listing a faulty item.

Oh - just for the book - multiply your feedback by about 59 - ZERO kids - indeed. lol

Re: Ebay return with a twist

gutterpunkz05 — Tue, 20 Sep 2022 04:38:57 GMT

As soon as the buyer claimed faulty battery, you were doomed. There is a way around it, but it was not included in your listing. As far as the refund goes, as you have received the item back, you have 3 days to complete the refund or ebay will do it for you. Ebay is only interested in the fact you have received the item back, as to it being serviced, you will be hard pressed to prove, the when, where and by whom, at least to ebays satisfaction.