topic Re: Internal eBay issue - no help from intentional/accidental disputes. in Selling

Internal eBay issue - no help from intentional/accidental disputes.

auntyrois — Mon, 27 Mar 2023 19:02:05 GMT

Hi fellow eBayers - happy & sad,

I would like to raise a massive concern I have with ebay and its dispute system failure (well, in my case).

ebay policy states that when a buyer goes to their financial institution for a refund and you have chosen to dispute this, the financial institution's say is final and you are liable for a $22 dispute fee if you lose.

So if the buyer gets refunded you pay back everything, including postage and still have to pay for listing sale fees and a $22 dispute fee and potentially lose out on getting the item returned.

So, here's my dilemma... the financial institution, fortunately, chose in my favour and the buyer kept the item and life continued BUT A MERE 86 DAYS AFTER THE SALE>>> ebay whacked me with a $22 dispute fee and charged my bank account $1154.10 87 days after the buyer purchased the item. (under what policy does this fall?)

ebay has been the most deceitful at reviewing this error, but I gather they may do this to many sellers where the buyer has gone and you assume they have rewarded a refund.

Fortunately, I was able to contact the buyer externally (where ebay blocked my communications with them) and I have been shown all the evidence that the financial institution did indeed grant me the dispute, and the buyer changed their mind and used the items.

ebay keep shutting me down for trying to address this, I have invested nearly 20hrs online, on the phone with ebay and on the phone with the buyer. It is costing me my time and international phone calls.

I can only feel that ebay look to have purposely engineered their business around the grounds that make it sufficiently difficult to contact and address such issues, where most won't find out they have been conned, and many will just give up with the policy red tape they hide behind.

ebay can't hide behind policies where the call is in favour of the seller.

This is morally unethical and undermines the validity of the platform we should all be able to TRUST!

The massive profits they can make from these "slip-ups" warrants investigation.

See details below. I have deleted references to the financial institution and to my customer who is more than willing to help.

And I thank the buyer and their financial institution for their honesty in helping me in this situation.

Dispute granted in my favourevidence ebay sent to financial institution

Re: Internal eBay issue - no help from intentional/accidental disputes.

imastawka — Mon, 27 Mar 2023 23:31:12 GMT

Have you tried filing a complaint with AFCA?

Home | Australian Financial Complaints Authority (AFCA)

Re: Internal eBay issue - no help from intentional/accidental disputes.

p9games — Mon, 27 Mar 2023 23:34:16 GMT

Appalling. Simply appalling. What an absolute joke.

Ebay is a giant, sophisticated marketplace but it's a total **bleep**shoot for sellers. Most of the dangers boil down to lopsided policies skewed in the buyers favour, a lack of accountability, a lack of support and failure to adhere to their own policies.

Ebay has taken your money without cause.

Re: Internal eBay issue - no help from intentional/accidental disputes.

auntyrois — Tue, 28 Mar 2023 06:41:26 GMT

This total lack of integrity needs to be exposed so others are aware of this unlawful inept act.

How often have they (eBay) pulled this immoral stunt over the eyes of other innocent sellers?

It would be interesting to hear if others have been subjected to the same deceit/error by eBay.

Re: Internal eBay issue - no help from intentional/accidental disputes.

gutterpunkz05 — Tue, 28 Mar 2023 07:05:07 GMT

So this is an international transaction? If so AFCA is hardly likely to be interested or have any jurisdiction.

What was the reason for the buyer requesting return of the item. If it was a COM, your no refund policy applies, however if the item was NAD, faulty etc, then the buyer is entitled to return the item for a full refund, and it is up to you to supply return shipping.

Has your buyer appealed against the original financial institution decision, would not be at all surprised if they are not telling you the full story.

Re: Internal eBay issue - no help from intentional/accidental disputes.

auntyrois — Tue, 28 Mar 2023 07:26:54 GMT

Hi imastawka,

I have been fighting this with eBay for the past month.

It does sound like an avenue to look at but eBay is not a member of AFRA to lodge a complaint.

AFCA Member Search

eBay processes payments, fees, international exchange rates, GST and debiting/crediting people's bank accounts so acts as a financial service provider but they avoid being a member of AFRA!

What is unknown to most is a company called ADYEN (AFS License Number 516550) that is discreetly affiliated with eBay financials, so this makes the matter even more complicated.

Adyen | Engineered for ambition - Adyen

Re: Internal eBay issue - no help from intentional/accidental disputes.

gutterpunkz05 — Tue, 28 Mar 2023 08:03:48 GMT

Not so discreetly, all ebay sellers in Australia, signed up to managed payments, should be aware of Adyen.

Re: Internal eBay issue - no help from intentional/accidental disputes.

gutterpunkz05 — Tue, 28 Mar 2023 08:25:24 GMT

If your buyer is so helpful, did not appeal the original decision, and are so happy with the product, are they prepared to repay you for the item.

Re: Internal eBay issue - no help from intentional/accidental disputes.

auntyrois — Tue, 28 Mar 2023 08:37:10 GMT

As for AFCA eBay is not a member and is strangely exempt from being so.

As for the transaction, the buyer made the purchase on behalf of their client.

As it was listed as 'No Returns" for the sheer size and bulk being sent from Australia to the USA.

When it was delivered their client changed their mind but knew there were no returns on this (as listed).

The buyer requested a refund via their financial institution as they were short-changed by their own client.

Fortunately, they made use of the purchase, and are happy so it can't be returned.

There is no reason why my buyer would go to the lengths to fabricate this up, and fraudulently alter a financial institution's statement when they could easily block me and pretend, I don't exist.

eBay even tried to defame the buyer and their financial institution as the culprits.

Divide and conquer!

Re: Internal eBay issue - no help from intentional/accidental disputes.

auntyrois — Tue, 28 Mar 2023 08:59:02 GMT

Disputed, dispute overturned.

Because they have already paid, so why should they pay twice???

Simply... they paid for the item, they own it.

Re: Internal eBay issue - no help from intentional/accidental disputes.

davewil1964 — Tue, 28 Mar 2023 09:03:50 GMT

Simply, they disputed the payment and now have the item and their money. So, they didn't actually pay for it and are guilty of fraud.

Good luck with pursuing the matter, though. eBay have demonstrated they don't care and no Australian agency has jurisdiction overseas.

You could try AFCA or the ACCC, using eBay/Adyen as the culprit. I have no idea whether you will have recourse.

But your post reinforces why I don't sell internationally.

Re: Internal eBay issue - no help from intentional/accidental disputes.

*sons_n_daughters* — Tue, 28 Mar 2023 09:39:53 GMT

Your buyer is telling you what you want to hear. They are scamming you. You lost. You won't get your money back, or the item. The only winner here is the buyer, and they know it.

Re: Internal eBay issue - no help from intentional/accidental disputes.

p9games — Tue, 28 Mar 2023 11:07:49 GMT

"But your post reinforces why I don't sell internationally."

Nor I. AU only. I'm staying well clear

Re: Internal eBay issue - no help from intentional/accidental disputes.

gutterpunkz05 — Tue, 28 Mar 2023 11:14:59 GMT

To find out how genuine your buyer is, ask them to repay, as it is they have the item and a refund.

When a buyer makes a claim via their financial institution, ebay purely acts as a go between, passing on the information you provide. The decision is made by the financial institution, not ebay.

As for your buyers client, that is all distraction, nothing to do with you, ebay or the payment institution. they are not party to the transaction or dispute.

Re: Internal eBay issue - no help from intentional/accidental disputes.

countessalmirena — Tue, 28 Mar 2023 12:38:56 GMT

OP, Adyen is indeed the relevant financial institution.

Make sure you have all the evidence to present to AFCA.

But I am detecting a whiff of deception from your buyer. I may be wrong.

Re: Internal eBay issue - no help from intentional/accidental disputes.

danieh_6 — Sat, 01 Apr 2023 22:10:06 GMT

Adyen is definitely correct, You could have success with them if you keep pressing them eventually an eBay rep from high up should reach out to you and hopefully help you.

I don't know the situation of the case so cannot help you as its limited detail and can be false
However would just like to touch on a few points, which will also help future sellers with this issue.

- Any financial institution can side with the buyer for whatever reason, that's got nothing to do with eBay, hence why the dispute fee is charged. There are multiple layers to this which extends past Adyen etc. You can always appeal it.
- Tracking on Australia Post only last for 60 days after the last update publicly, Sometimes they do have archives but most financial institutions rely on the webpage or API. So if you don't upload tracking on eBay or it doesn't load for what ever reason, you aren't really protected.
- You stated no returns which I can understand, however if the item is not as described you do have to honor the return, even if the buyers wrong or you don't agree with the reason, its standard eBay policy and on most other platforms. Majority of the time the buyer has to return the item for a refund.

That being said best of luck with your dispute.