topic Re: Non payer in Selling

Non payer

lutonmaid — Wed, 22 Aug 2012 14:09:39 GMT

Hi can anyone give me advice, I sold a phone and pair of sneakers both buyers,not related, had zero every
Thing and they have never paid or responded I have set up a dispute, how long do I have to wait before I can re list them and be credited for the fees
On the same note how do you block bidders with no scores at all thanks in advance

Re: Non payer

thesoulyearns — Wed, 22 Aug 2012 14:26:19 GMT

eBay suggests contacting the buyer to try to resolve any issues before opening a dispute. That's too late now, though, but you can still message them nicely and see what their situation is. No one likes to be told to pay "or else..." 🙂

Read this for more info: http://pages.ebay.com.au/help/sell/unpaid-items.html

To have your Final Value fee credited back, you have to open a Cancellation dispute and the buyer must agree to cancel the transaction (e.g. if they don't intend to pay). That's the only way I think. After they agree, you can relist.

Not sure how to block buyers off the top of my head but someone else will be able to answer that.

Re: Non payer

dylan11235813 — Wed, 22 Aug 2012 14:28:27 GMT

To select buyer requirements for all your listings:

Go to My eBay.

Click the Account tab, and then click the Site Preferences link in the left navigation.

In the Selling Preferences section, scroll to Buyer requirements, and then click the Show link.

Click the Edit link.

On the Buyer Requirements page, select your requirements.

Click the Submit button to save your requirements.

Re: Non payer

leader-of-the-band — Wed, 22 Aug 2012 14:55:26 GMT

To have your Final Value fee credited back, you have to open a Cancellation dispute and the buyer must agree to cancel the transaction (e.g. if they don't intend to pay). That's the only way I think. After they agree, you can relist.

NO !!!!!!!!!!

Do the Non-paying buyer / Unpaid item process. If they do not pay you will get your fvf creditted back to you, the 'buyer' will receive a strike against their ID, they will not be able to leave you feedback.

If you do a mutual cancellation you will get your fees back BUT the 'buyer' can then leave you negative feedback, even something along the lines of "impatient seller wanted to cancel transaction, didn't give me a chance to pay", AND MORE IMPORTANTLY they will not receive a strike and will continue to be free to waste the time of sellers who have bidder blocks in place that will stop members with two unpaid item strikes from bidding and buying.

Do yourself, and every other seller, a favour by going through the unpaid item process. You can start that four days after the end of the listing and close the claim four days later if they do not pay. You are THEN free to relist.

Re: Non payer

digital*ghost — Wed, 22 Aug 2012 15:00:20 GMT

Now that the disputes are open, they can be closed 4 days afterwards to receive the fee credit. (That's to the minute, BTW, if you close any earlier than a full four days, the fees are forfeit).

It's best not to leave feedback for these transactions (you can only leave positive anyway, and it's a policy violation to leave a negative comment with a positive).

You can't block 0 feedback buyers based on only that criteria, but there are several blocks available that can help prevent this situation - specifically, you can block anyone with two or more non-paying strikes.

Re: Non payer

silversterio2 — Wed, 22 Aug 2012 15:12:52 GMT

lutonmaid;

"I have set up a dispute, how long do I have to wait before I can re list them and be credited for the fees"

You can close the Unpaid Item Disputes/Cases after 4 full days.

Your final value fees will be refunded to you and you can relist the items.

"On the same note how do you block bidders with no scores at all"

You can't block all 0 feedback buyers in general but if you use the 'Phone Verification Block', using the drop down box options for feedback requirement, it will block all members who aren't phone verified. Having a Credit card on file or having a Paypal account will override this block though.

Re: Non payer

thesoulyearns — Wed, 22 Aug 2012 22:03:04 GMT

NO !!!!!!!!!!

Do the Non-paying buyer / Unpaid item process. If they do not pay you will get your fvf creditted back to you, the 'buyer' will receive a strike against their ID, they will not be able to leave you feedback.

If you do a mutual cancellation you will get your fees back BUT the 'buyer' can then leave you negative feedback, even something along the lines of "impatient seller wanted to cancel transaction, didn't give me a chance to pay", AND MORE IMPORTANTLY they will not receive a strike and will continue to be free to waste the time of sellers who have bidder blocks in place that will stop members with two unpaid item strikes from bidding and buying.

Do yourself, and every other seller, a favour by going through the unpaid item process. You can start that four days after the end of the listing and close the claim four days later if they do not pay. You are THEN free to relist.

Sorry... I had no idea. However, wouldn't your feedback or stars be somewhat negative anyway by opening an Unpaid Item Dispute? The buyer surely would not be happy to be virtually told to pay and may reflect it no matter how the item arrives. Your idea is better than mine but I'm just not sure it also would be free from potential flack.

Re: Non payer

lyndal1838 — Wed, 22 Aug 2012 23:57:02 GMT

Soul, if the seller closes an Unpaid Item dispute and the buyer gets a strike, neither party can leave any feedback. If the buyer has already left negative feedback it will be removed.

Re: Non payer

leader-of-the-band — Thu, 23 Aug 2012 02:01:37 GMT

Sorry... I had no idea. However, wouldn't your feedback or stars be somewhat negative anyway by opening an Unpaid Item Dispute? The buyer surely would not be happy to be virtually told to pay and may reflect it no matter how the item arrives. Your idea is better than mine but I'm just not sure it also would be free from potential flack.

What I would do is message the seller after three days with something like:

"I am messaging to let you know that somehow my settings for listings now includes automatic opening of UnPaid Item disputes after four days. I don't know how to turn that off. You will be receiving notification in the next day or so that a dispute has been opened if payment has not been made. If you pay the dispute will automatically close in your favour. If payment is not made it will automatically close after four days in my favour. Thanks for your understanding"

I know it is a bit of bluff, but it may work AND negate ill feeling from them if they think the process is automatic.

Re: Non payer

thesoulyearns — Thu, 23 Aug 2012 05:07:20 GMT

What I would do is message the seller after three days with something like:

"I am messaging to let you know that somehow my settings for listings now includes automatic opening of UnPaid Item disputes after four days. I don't know how to turn that off. You will be receiving notification in the next day or so that a dispute has been opened if payment has not been made. If you pay the dispute will automatically close in your favour. If payment is not made it will automatically close after four days in my favour. Thanks for your understanding"

I know it is a bit of bluff, but it may work AND negate ill feeling from them if they think the process is automatic.

Wel, it's certainly a better way of getting them to pay than suggesting a Cancellation. 😉

I have two non-payers (4+ days) and checked their bidding history. One of them hasn't bid on anything since the day mine ended whereas the other bid and paid for a very similar item after the bidding had ended on mine. I sent that buyer a Cancellation request which basically said 'there's no harm in change of mind. If you'd like to cancel the bid, just agree to the message.' I doubt that type of message will get a negative feedback and even if it did, it would be unwarranted. We all want buyers to pay but I would rather keep my stars up and not get a "smiling assassin..." 😉

Re: Non payer

phorum_junkie* — Thu, 23 Aug 2012 12:00:20 GMT

You have to decide as a seller if you are more interested in the best way to make a profit or if you are more interested in feedback.

If the former then offering mutual cancellation can be totally counter productive. You have no idea if the buyer can't pay, doesn't want to pay, wants to just waste your time or is somebody with a beef who just want an excuse to screw sellers over.

If you are one of the former open an unpaid item dispute, they either pay and who cares if they leave you a neg or they don't in which case you get your FVF back and they can't leave a neg.

If you are prepared to risk losing the FVF refund just to try and protect your feedback then offer a mutual cancellation but note that it will not stop them if they want to leave a neg.

Re: Non payer

thesoulyearns — Thu, 23 Aug 2012 12:12:25 GMT

You have to decide as a seller if you are more interested in the best way to make a profit or if you are more interested in feedback.

If the former then offering mutual cancellation can be totally counter productive. You have no idea if the buyer can't pay, doesn't want to pay, wants to just waste your time or is somebody with a beef who just want an excuse to screw sellers over.

...

If you are prepared to risk losing the FVF refund just to try and protect your feedback then offer a mutual cancellation but note that it will not stop them if they want to leave a neg.

Very true about the second paragraph. But they should at least respond within a week or so to say what's happening. You probably already know this but the FVF does get credited back through a mutual cancellation if the buyer agrees and/or doesn't respond within 7 days. Not sure what happens if they disagree (?) or if that's even an option, though.

"To cancel a transaction, open a case in the Resolution Centre. A few important notes:

The buyer has up to 7 days to respond to your case. To receive a final value fee credit, the buyer must agree to cancel the transaction. If you haven't received a response after 7 days, close the case and you'll receive a final value fee credit."

Re: Non payer

davewil1964 — Thu, 23 Aug 2012 12:40:20 GMT

If the buyer refuses the request, the seller loses their FVF.

That's why a NPB is the way to go.

Re: Non payer

digital*ghost — Thu, 23 Aug 2012 13:28:17 GMT

Wel, it's certainly a better way of getting them to pay than suggesting a Cancellation. 😉

I have two non-payers (4+ days) and checked their bidding history. One of them hasn't bid on anything since the day mine ended whereas the other bid and paid for a very similar item after the bidding had ended on mine. I sent that buyer a Cancellation request which basically said 'there's no harm in change of mind. If you'd like to cancel the bid, just agree to the message.' I doubt that type of message will get a negative feedback and even if it did, it would be unwarranted. We all want buyers to pay but I would rather keep my stars up and not get a "smiling assassin..." 😉

One thing you might notice about the late payment message draft is that it gives the buyer a total of three different ways to respond - the most important being the 'let me know how you wish to proceed with this transaction'. It's deliberately a non-accusatory, non-demanding way to try and elicit a response from a buyer, but not only that, as it's completely non-threatening, you can almost be assured that if they don't respond to it, they are very unlikely to respond to anything, therefore no feedback - good or bad - is likely to be left.

If it is your preference, if a buyer responds by indicating they don't want to go ahead with the transaction (i.e. not pay), you can respond by letting them know that you will then issue a request to cancel it and let them know that by agreeing, they are released from their obligation to pay. This lets the buyer know that there is a mutually beneficial outcome to agreeing to cancel the transaction.

Alternatively, you could also respond by letting the buyer know that in order to recover fees, you will be initiating the process to void the transaction with eBay, and that the buyer need do nothing further as they have already indicated that they do not wish to proceed with the transaction.

With the method I choose and that message I send, which has been my standard enquiry for the entire time I've been selling (so nearly 4 years), I've had a total of 8 transactions go to the resolution centre, and last week I closed an NPB dispute after no payment for the first time in 3 years, so I am still convinced sending a message that invites response and threatens nothing is the way to go to get the best result (i.e. payment).

Re: Non payer

dylan11235813 — Thu, 23 Aug 2012 13:36:37 GMT

Praise the lord,,oh..wait..

Re: Non payer

phorum_junkie* — Thu, 23 Aug 2012 15:24:51 GMT

Not sure what happens if they disagree (?) or if that's even an option, though.

So you have been advising people to offer mutual cancellation without knowing the possible consequences. Yes a buyer has the option to disagree, yes if they do the seller doesn't get the FVF refund and yes the buyer can still leave a neg!

I really hope that some poor seller who has sold an expensive item with a fifty dollar or more final value fee doesn't offer a mutual cancellation that is refused, are you going to pay them the money they have lost because they acted on your uninformed advice?

There is another thread at the moment from a seller who listed an item as pick up, buyer didn't realise and was out of state so seller sent mutual cancellation request and got a neg for their trouble.

Re: Non payer

thesoulyearns — Fri, 24 Aug 2012 01:48:20 GMT

Thanks, d*g. I'll refrain from offering any advice in the near future.

Would it be alright if you outlined your method on resolving non-payers to a positive outcome? I'm probably not the only one who would be interested in hearing how a successful seller handles these things.

Re: Non payer

aj111003 — Fri, 24 Aug 2012 02:52:56 GMT

Just been reading everyones posts and wanted to clarify - if a buyer decided he/she no longer wanted to purchase the item and wanted to cancel the transaction, can the buyer go ahead and make the cancellation on their own accord or do they always have to have the seller's agreement?

Re: Non payer

digital*ghost — Fri, 24 Aug 2012 03:45:21 GMT

Would it be alright if you outlined your method on resolving non-payers to a positive outcome? I'm probably not the only one who would be interested in hearing how a successful seller handles these things.

No problem, but like most things, my method definitely won't suit or work for everyone, particuarly as I never get people buying things by "mistake", and my customers don't seem to have any errant two year olds or clever pets seeking a brand new look.

My ethos is based on doing the simplest things to get the best outcome for everyone, so as strange as it might sound, I actually never ask my buyers for payment, not directly anyway. I have the payment reminders switched off, and once a buyer purchases something, I give them the time to pay that my listings say I do. My theory is we both know they've bought something, and we know it's awaiting payment, so when I contact them I want to get a response that hopefully gives me information I don't know yet so I can decide the best thing to do next; hence the simple request to contact me and let me know how they would like to proceed with the transaction.(I aslo don't ask for payment because every now and again there can be errors that cause payments to be missed, so I don't say you haven't paid, but I haven't received your payment).

Because I allow 7 days for payment, I send a message on day 5 or 6 (the other reason for the message is so that it at least shows I've attempted to touch base with the buyer and invited them to communicate with me, rather than launching straight into the dispute - if they don't respond then they can't really blame me for taking action...in theory anyway!), then give around 48 hours for a response. Most of the time people just respond by paying, some have asked for a little extra time or said payment will be made on X date, no one has responded yet by saying they want to cancel the transaction. A few times the message has been ignored, so I opened UPI disputes. That's not because I want to get the buyer to pay (so I really wish eBay would not send emails that make the dispute look like that's the only reason for it), but because I want my FVF back. As I mentioned, in the last few years only a handful of transactions had gotten to that stage, and just one ended up closing without payment.

I used to message a buyer twice before opening a UPI, but now I think one message is more than enough. Early on in my selling, after having sent two enquiries to a buyer (two days apart) and not getting a response, I opened the dispute and within 24 hours had a very angry direct email from the customer who had apparently just got back from travelling overseas, giving me "what for" for threatening them into paying and demanding an apology for my poor treatment of them. I decided then and there that I would never let the fear of getting a negative dictate how I handle my business. (I certainly don't try to do anything that knowingly invites them, but I refuse to be cowed, limited or pander to buyers by the possibility of one). So I responded to this very indignant person pretty much by explaining that my decision was based on the information I had - which was none thanks to their lack of response to my enquiries - and that the dispute was to get my FVF back, not make them pay. (The words I used was "it is a process available to me to ensure I do not pay the fees for incomplete transactions and can then safely relist the item).

I ended the message by pretty much saying he was wrong, I was right, I wasn't going to apologise and had nothing further to say about it - was convinced I was going to get a neg either way, but I'll be darned if I'll be spoken to like that and just take it! Anyway, they paid and I didn't get a neg.

No, a cancellation can only be initiated by the seller. Buyers can ask that a transaction be cancelled, but it's up to the seller to agree and send the request.

Re: Non payer

aj111003 — Fri, 24 Aug 2012 03:57:47 GMT

Thanks DG for your response.