topic Re: A PERFECT EXAMPLE OF FEEDBACK EXTORTION OR WHAT IS IT? in Selling

A PERFECT EXAMPLE OF FEEDBACK EXTORTION OR WHAT IS IT?

bizzlink-australia — Sat, 20 Apr 2013 08:33:40 GMT

A PERFECT EXAMPLE OF FEEDBACK EXTORTION OR WHAT IS IT?

Please excuse the rather lengthy post.

Buyer makes THREE buy now purchases all within 5 minutes, then fraudulently marking TWO of the purchases as being paid for, then marks TWO purchases with NEGATIVE rating within 3 minutes of making the purchases.

If that does not fall into the category of FEEDBACK EXTORTION, THEN WHAT DOES?

eBay may deny that they do NOT approve of, or encourage such behaviour.

However, why then have they NOT taken action on the issue since they were advised of such serious policy violation, seven days ago?

But rather allowed the account of such person to remain active.

Which basically allows the owner of this account to continue with his dirty deeds.

eBay have to this date been advised of the issue on three separate occasions, however, on each occasion they have decided to allow NEGATIVE feedback to stand, along with allowing my reputation to remain damaged.

All they (eBay) can provide you with is a whole heap of standard copied and pasted carp, as shown below, between double lines.

========================================================

G…r, we appreciate that you have taken the time to bring this to our attention. Just like you, we’re always concerned about policy violations, so we appreciate that you have taken the time to bring this to our attention. Let me assure you that we've looked into your complaint and have taken the appropriate action on X……..X's account.

Because of our privacy policy, I can't share details about the action we took on the members account specifically. Hopefully this will assure you that we’ll also keep your account information private.

===========================================================

Furthermore, the following is amongst one of eBay’s policies, (Feedback protection - Buyers can't leave feedback until they complete the transaction with you.)

This is obviously NOT TRUE, as such, it is a LIE, as NEG was allowed to be posted and to date they have NOT removed the NEGATIVE feedback.

PLEASE SEE below, my third attempt at communication with eBay.

Sent 17/04/2013 5:22pm

Hello S…h A,

Thank you but you have really done nothing.

You wrote the following, (in brackets).

(Thank you for contacting eBay about the negative feedback from h…….1 when they did not pay for the item.)

Really, according to eBay the only wrong doing by X…….X is not to pay for the item, never mind feedback extortion by leaving NEGATIVE feedback within THREE minutes of making a purchase.

Anyone with any perception of eBay feedback policy would have known that leaving a negative rating within THREE minutes of purchase would be the most obvious feedback extortion than a simple unpaid item.

If extortion is not the right description, then perhaps you can help here, by putting an appropriate label on it.

As for what you have done, S…. A, is hardly anything at all, you have only removed ONE of the two feedbacks X…….X had left.

Furthermore, why has my % rating NOT been adjusted?

You spent a good deal of time of repetitive copying and pasting information that was NOT an issue, but you have NOT made comment or action on the real issue of how a buyer can leave NEGATIVE ratings within THREE minutes of making a purchase, (NOT PAID FOR) for no other reason other than to deliberately contravene eBay feedback policy, and a deliberate action to damage my reputation.

Not to mention the fact that due to eBay’s inaction, one can only conclude that eBay actually condones such gross abuse of eBay policy, if that is NOT the case, why then is this account allowed to remain active?

With reference to eBay’s so called privacy policy, with all due respects, you can ask me along with thousands of other eBay members, and they will tell you that in their opinion, such so called privacy policy was designed to do no more, other than to cover any inaction by eBay to censure members such as the one central to this issue

This is now the third communication to eBay on this issue, and each time the issue has NOT been resolved, as such, would it not be prudent to pass this communication onto one of your supervisors, who may have more experience, to recognise extorsion for what it is, and provide a satisfactory outcome.

Finally on the feedback issue, one can only come to the conclusion that the entire feedback system eBay presides over is somewhat twisted and is based upon a massive lie.

After all how is it that eBay forces sellers to mark any comments POSITIVE if they wish to leave a comment?

Can you imagine leaving a positive feedback for a member such as X…….X along with his cohort X………X who have threatened NEGATIVE feedback if we did not provide a refund for an item that was as described.

Regards,

X…X

Re: A PERFECT EXAMPLE OF FEEDBACK EXTORTION OR WHAT IS IT?

*sparklz* — Sat, 20 Apr 2013 08:37:37 GMT

Call ebay it is quicker.

To call ebay click on Customer support in the top RH corner and then click on Contact ebay then hover your mouse over selling and then click on report a member then click on call us and you will be given the number and a code to enter on request.

Re: A PERFECT EXAMPLE OF FEEDBACK EXTORTION OR WHAT IS IT?

*sparklz* — Sat, 20 Apr 2013 08:39:46 GMT

There is no feedback on your account for items purchased the same day FB was left so it has been removed.

Re: A PERFECT EXAMPLE OF FEEDBACK EXTORTION OR WHAT IS IT?

not_an_eloi — Sat, 20 Apr 2013 08:41:32 GMT

in the meantime, are you at brisbane, or tea gardens, or back at brisbane

lol

Re: A PERFECT EXAMPLE OF FEEDBACK EXTORTION OR WHAT IS IT?

putney32 — Sat, 20 Apr 2013 08:49:19 GMT

any non paying bidder, whether they leave f/b or no, once you open the dispute and close it again 4 days later (if they've not paid), you'll get your fvf back and ebay will remove the negatives.

Re: A PERFECT EXAMPLE OF FEEDBACK EXTORTION OR WHAT IS IT?

bizzlink-australia — Sat, 20 Apr 2013 09:04:40 GMT

We were at Tea Gardens, we are now at Bundamba QLD. I thought I changed all listing details, where did you find reference to Tea Gardens?

Re: A PERFECT EXAMPLE OF FEEDBACK EXTORTION OR WHAT IS IT?

digital*ghost — Sat, 20 Apr 2013 10:46:55 GMT

Technically, although obviously quite suspect to leave FB within minutes of purchase and so forth, it's not feedback extortion, it's auction interference (the general term, whether the listing was an actual auction or BIN).

Feedback extortion is when a buyer threatens to leave a neg or neut if they don't get something they are not entitled to.

Putney is correct, though, the negs should be removed once a NPB dispute is closed after four days, but if you contact eBay (most people will tell you ringing is far more effective than emailing), and point out it's auction interference, they might understand the situation a bit better.

Re: A PERFECT EXAMPLE OF FEEDBACK EXTORTION OR WHAT IS IT?

arnl7178 — Sat, 20 Apr 2013 12:14:19 GMT

Buyer should not be able to leave feedback for ANY transaction until after a reasonable amount of days so at least they buyer should have received their item.

In fact, there should be a mandatory option where a buyer MUST mark an item as received in order for the feedback option to become available. That would also help sellers know when their items have arrived, since some (a lot) of buyers don't bother letting a seller know, and personally, I find that infuriating.

Re: A PERFECT EXAMPLE OF FEEDBACK EXTORTION OR WHAT IS IT?

arnl7178 — Sat, 20 Apr 2013 12:19:46 GMT

Goodness, I apologise for those typos. That should have read ...

Buyers should not be able to leave feedback for ANY transaction until after a reasonable amount of days so at least by then, the buyer should have received their item.

Re: A PERFECT EXAMPLE OF FEEDBACK EXTORTION OR WHAT IS IT?

digital*ghost — Sat, 20 Apr 2013 13:04:25 GMT

That's probably one real advantage of being a Power Seller - if memory serves, you can't leave a neg for a PS less than 7 days after purchase. Pity it only applies to Power Sellers.

Re: A PERFECT EXAMPLE OF FEEDBACK EXTORTION OR WHAT IS IT?

bizzlink-australia — Sat, 20 Apr 2013 13:26:13 GMT

Thanks digital,

As far as understanding a bit better, does eBay employ people with or without brains, after all even those with a very limited IQ, should be able to work out that leaving feedback within minutes of making a purchase, is intended to do only one thing, that is to damage a sellers reputation, as such, such feedback should be immediately removed as soon as eBay is advised of the same.

Furthermore, to avoid such situations, feedback should NOT be allowed for say at least 10 days after proof of payment is determined.

It is also grossly unfair that a seller has to wait for as long as 8 days before unjust feedback is removed, which of course does nothing for the sellers reputation.

There is also another point, that the account that left the offending feedbacks, was an account owned by the same person that left us NEG 8/04/2013 which was very soon after we refused to be intimidated by an email I received.

This email more or less implied that unless I provide a full refund, for an item that was wholly as described, appropriate (if you read between the lines) NEG feedback would be left. And after the this person found out that he could have purchased the same item cheaper from another source, he used a second account which only had one trade on it since Aug 2011, to leave the offending feedbacks.

The reason I know that these two accounts are in fact in collusion with each other, as there listed phone number a virtually identical except for ONE single digit, (third last digit) their listed addresses are 80km apart, as such, their Telephone prefixes are 6921 and 6977

Therefore, how would it be possible that the two listed numbers are identical except for the third last digit of their numbers?

I see no other explanation other than both accounts are owned by the same person, conspiring to damage my reputation.

eBay have also been made aware of this, however, they chose to ignore the evidence and allow both accounts to continue to cause grief whenever they wished to.

Re: A PERFECT EXAMPLE OF FEEDBACK EXTORTION OR WHAT IS IT?

digital*ghost — Sat, 20 Apr 2013 13:56:43 GMT

Thanks digital,

As far as understanding a bit better, does eBay employ people with or without brains, after all even those with a very limited IQ, should be able to work out that leaving feedback within minutes of making a purchase, is intended to do only one thing, that is to damage a sellers reputation, as such, such feedback should be immediately removed as soon as eBay is advised of the same.

That's just it... Often, particularly if you only email about the issue, you get an automated response based on keywords in the original message. That may or may not have been the case when you contacted eBay, but for feedback extortion to be verified, there would have to be communication between yourself and the buyer that a staff member could actively review. If they were unable to do that, I'm not confident they would have gone "but it does look like auction interference... " and take action.

My own dealings with Live Help have often been frustrating, as it's quite difficult to get them to budge from a position where the buyer is in the right - I think they are quite restricted in how they are 'allowed' to assess and respond to the information given to them, so that while most others who had the capacity to critically assess the evidence and see that something is awry, they are bound to give some canned response based on certain things just like the email responses.

Re: A PERFECT EXAMPLE OF FEEDBACK EXTORTION OR WHAT IS IT?

***super_nova*** — Sat, 20 Apr 2013 23:31:53 GMT

Looks like the newest FB has been removed.

To deal with the 1st one, go to the message that states they will remove the FB if you refund down on the bottom is REPORT link, click on that and report it as FB extortion.

Do not bother to email eBay. all you get is automated responses. Call them.

I do hope that the buyer is now on your BBL

Re: A PERFECT EXAMPLE OF FEEDBACK EXTORTION OR WHAT IS IT?

bizzlink-australia — Sun, 21 Apr 2013 00:59:45 GMT

Thanks super_nova,

Yes it is on my BBL, perhaps it may also be on the BBL of all others that have read this post.

Re: A PERFECT EXAMPLE OF FEEDBACK EXTORTION OR WHAT IS IT?

phorum_junkie* — Sun, 21 Apr 2013 01:18:32 GMT

The trouble is you mentioned the wrong reason, feedback extortion is asking for something other than you are entitled to within the transaction and threatening to leave neg feedback if you don't get it.

You should have reported of the grounds of malicious bidding if the same person had purchased from you before and there were problems. If you had added them to your blocked bidder list then they would have had to bid with another id and that would be taken much more seriously.

It is always better to call ebay but if you are emailing keep it concise and to the point, you will almost always receive a generalised and probably semi automated reply, the trick is to reply to that email, not send a new one, saying it has not addressed your problem, each time you do that it will be bumped up the ladder until it reaches somebody who really reads it, of course you have to be asking the right question in the first place

Re: A PERFECT EXAMPLE OF FEEDBACK EXTORTION OR WHAT IS IT?

i-once-was-bump — Sun, 21 Apr 2013 07:14:36 GMT

You accused them of feedback extortion and ebay found no evidence of it happening.

Re phone numbers, my mother's phone number is 1 digit different to a very busy medical specialist and 1 digit different to a local business but these 3 phone numbers are in no way connected with each other and they are located within 2kms of each other. (My mother lives in a very large non-capital city.)

Should either the doctor or business owner do anything wrong then by your reasoning my mother would have to be involved.

Re: A PERFECT EXAMPLE OF FEEDBACK EXTORTION OR WHAT IS IT?

bizzlink-australia — Sun, 21 Apr 2013 09:16:15 GMT

i-once-was-bump

Just like eBay, there are some that will NOT read all info put to them.

According to their account details the two addresses are 80km apart, with phone prefixes of 6921 and 6977 for each locality, then how come their phone numbers have identical prefixes, with only the third last digit of the number being different.

As such, it is NOT possible to have the same prefixes for two localities that are 80km apart.

As for accusing the buyer of feedback extortion, well it may not fall into that category, but it certainly smells of some dirty deed.

It is NOT rocket science to work out that purchasing three items all within 5 minutes of each other, then leaving feedback within 3 minutes of purchasing it, is obviously intended to damage a sellers reputation.
Please tell me how anyone can comment on an item before receiving it?

Re: A PERFECT EXAMPLE OF FEEDBACK EXTORTION OR WHAT IS IT?

lyndal1838 — Sun, 21 Apr 2013 12:26:37 GMT

Just because they have similar phone numbers does not mean that they are sending the items to their home address. Buyers can buy the same item with all details the same except for the delivery address.