topic Re: Postage options and packaging methods explained..buyer wants refund anyway? in Selling

Postage options and packaging methods explained..buyer wants refund anyway?

perfectly_dark007 — Mon, 10 Sep 2012 10:14:58 GMT

Hey I normally wouldnt bother posting here, I work any issues out directly, hardly have more than a small hiccup but this ones a tad annoying.

In each of my item descriptions I state the packaging charges and packing used in each option, with padded bags available and registered post too if selected (default is free postage, packed in a normal envelope and sent, over 99% of my buyers take this and Ive had barely an issue over 6 months).

Anyway I had one today that got lost in the post sorters and buyer is threatening neg feedback and demanding a full refund. Given I was upfront to begin with about postal terms (and despite what some may think, the packaging in an envelope inside a ziplock bag is a tried and true method, small lego orders), am I being right or wrong in saying that the benefits of registered post really only apply if you select that option? Otherwise why bother if we have no recourse as sellers?

Thoughts, opinions? The buyer is nice about it but I feel that a neg feedback is on the cards, kinda felt a little threatened (i like my 100%!)

Re: Postage options and packaging methods explained..buyer wants refund anyway?

alanawent3133 — Mon, 10 Sep 2012 10:49:35 GMT

Its your responsibility to deliver the item safely to the buyer, you shouldn't be sending lego in a plain letter, at least a padded bag

Re: Postage options and packaging methods explained..buyer wants refund anyway?

patchoo78 — Mon, 10 Sep 2012 10:50:48 GMT

If you don't give the buyer a refund you may end up with a Item not received dispute which the buyer will win as you can't provide proof of postage, and the buyer may very well leave you a neg for having to raise a dispute to get the refund..

Sending things registered post forgoes your protection not the buyers.. The buyer has protection as long as they paid with PayPal

Re: Postage options and packaging methods explained..buyer wants refund anyway?

patchoo78 — Mon, 10 Sep 2012 11:00:30 GMT

Sorry, that should have been not sending things by registered post

Re: Postage options and packaging methods explained..buyer wants refund anyway?

putney32 — Mon, 10 Sep 2012 11:22:49 GMT

if you want Seller Protection YOU need to protect yourself by using a safe method

if you do NOT want Seller Protection, use a plain envelope, however, LEGO should never be sent in a letter at letter rates.

Re: Postage options and packaging methods explained..buyer wants refund anyway?

phorum_junkie* — Mon, 10 Sep 2012 12:26:47 GMT

Yes you are wrong, you choose to pay for registered post or click & send or else you refund without question if the item does not arrive.

Re: Postage options and packaging methods explained..buyer wants refund anyway?

licoricebabyandfabmama — Mon, 10 Sep 2012 12:43:54 GMT

I think that from a buyers point of view, if they didnt receive the package its fair for them to leave negative feedback, however they did realize they were getting a standard postage with no protection, so they should know on those grounds they may not receive a refund. It would seem like alot of us try to use standard postage letter rates when selling small unexpensive items, its saves us and the buyer money which is what we want. I guess it just comes down to your decision to send it out again or refund to avoid negative feedback or if you choose to save money and take the negative feedback.

Re: Postage options and packaging methods explained..buyer wants refund anyway?

dylan11235813 — Mon, 10 Sep 2012 12:58:24 GMT

So can a seller list in the terms and conditions for a purchase that if an item is not registered it is the buyers responsibility if normal post is selected? Negating the terms of paypal.

I offer registered post but very few buyers select it... I wonder why...

Re: Postage options and packaging methods explained..buyer wants refund anyway?

i-once-was-bump — Mon, 10 Sep 2012 13:00:36 GMT

I think that from a buyers point of view, if they didnt receive the package its fair for them to leave negative feedback, however they did realize they were getting a standard postage with no protection, so they should know on those grounds they may not receive a refund. It would seem like alot of us try to use standard postage letter rates when selling small unexpensive items, its saves us and the buyer money which is what we want. I guess it just comes down to your decision to send it out again or refund to avoid negative feedback or if you choose to save money and take the negative feedback.

Both a bad attitude and bad advice.

Please read up on a seller's responsibiities before giving advice such as this again.

Re: Postage options and packaging methods explained..buyer wants refund anyway?

putney32 — Mon, 10 Sep 2012 13:01:53 GMT

So can a seller list in the terms and conditions for a purchase that if an item is not registered it is the buyers responsibility if normal post is selected?

YES you can state that if you want to.......

Negating the terms of paypal.

No, a Sellers terms & conditions can say what they want, however it never overrides the PayPal or eBay Terms, ever.

I offer registered post but very few buyers select it... I wonder why...

because no Buyer needs registered post protection, they have free protection provided by PayPal

Re: Postage options and packaging methods explained..buyer wants refund anyway?

dingo069 — Mon, 10 Sep 2012 13:30:44 GMT

Irrespective of what option in terms of postage the buyer chooses and how you send the item, you are responsible for its safe delivery. Registration protects you, not your buyer. Consider it from this perspective, if you bought an item from a B&M store and the sales assistant broke it as he or she was placing it in a bag prior to handing it to you, would you reasonably expect to hear, "tough luck, you should have insured it"?

Re: Postage options and packaging methods explained..buyer wants refund anyway?

shoesonthegoau — Mon, 10 Sep 2012 13:44:47 GMT

Just refund mate if the item hasn't been received and was sent as a letter rate the least you can do is to replace or give customer service, I send things in letter rates to but if a customer doesn't receive I give them the normal speal and then replace or refund. Think about the time you are wasting on trying to save a few dollars do yourself a favour,

Re: Postage options and packaging methods explained..buyer wants refund anyway?

the3coopers — Mon, 10 Sep 2012 14:51:38 GMT

You've posted what... 1000 items without any problem?

Now you lose one which was obviously of low value, because you sent it as a letter rate.

So, divide the total value of this loss by the total number of sales you've made. OK.. One minifig at $7 / 1000 = 0.7 cents per transaction.

Just refund the buyer. Or better - send them a replacement (because by replacing you only lose your cost of the item, not your selling price)

Re: Postage options and packaging methods explained..buyer wants refund anyway?

perfectly_dark007 — Mon, 10 Sep 2012 20:35:30 GMT

Thanks for the input everyone, I get what your all saying re: buyers expectations etc. I am still confused as to why registered post is even an option seeing as it makes no difference to the buyer..

As for the comments re: you should not post lego that way etc..well give it a go, why should flat sturdy items not be posted that way if the buyer is Ok with it? Well withing australia posts terms and for one to go missing from hundreds, yeah I can safely say its a proven method..

Ah well what can you do sometimes. Im not paying for registered post costing more that the items are worth simply to 'protect' myself, it just seems strange. To me its good customer service to help out buyers that dont select that option, not an obligation.

Anyway I guess Ill just remove free postage from now on and charge for bigger packing (costing probably more than the items) but hey, if auspost manage to stuff that up Ill still be in the same boat..

Re: Postage options and packaging methods explained..buyer wants refund anyway?

patchoo78 — Tue, 11 Sep 2012 01:02:37 GMT

I am still confused as to why registered post is even an option seeing as it makes no difference to the buyer..

Why are you still confused? You have been told at least 3 times why registered post is an option, but let me point it out again:

Registered post, is for YOUR proptection, the buyers get protection simply by paying with PayPal

If you don't want to send things by registered post, the at least send them in a small padded envelope.. Letters go through sorters at a great speed so if what is in the envelope isn't paper, then the envelope is probably going to rip

I learned this the hard way sending an SD card in an envelope and it got lost this way even though it was pretty thin.

Australia Post didn't stuff it up, you did by sending something in an envelope instead of padded bag

Re: Postage options and packaging methods explained..buyer wants refund anyway?

putney32 — Tue, 11 Sep 2012 03:30:53 GMT

seems the only one NOT happy with your way of sending is YOU when you are asked to honour a sale that has gone wrong.

the reason you can allow choices is because some buyers prefer choices and occasionally you may come across a buyer willing to pay the extra to have registered post for all sorts of reasons, but bottom line is the Buyer does not Need to pay for registered post just to cover themselves against loss in the mail or loss thru damage in the mail, that is what the Seller needs to cover themselves for.

Re: Postage options and packaging methods explained..buyer wants refund anyway?

davewil1964 — Tue, 11 Sep 2012 03:37:29 GMT

What coops said.

The cost of replacing/refunding is doubtless more than offset by the higher sales you will have gotten because you DON'T charge higher postage rates.

Chuck 10c in a jar every time you post as a letter. When one goes missing take the refund out of the jar. Buy yourself something or go out to dinner with what's left in the jar at the end of the year.

Re: Postage options and packaging methods explained..buyer wants refund anyway?

digital*ghost — Tue, 11 Sep 2012 03:39:46 GMT

So why then are we as sellers able to offer registered postage to the buyer for them to select, when apparently buyers will have no need to select that option, as they are being covered anyway?

The reason everyone says that line (regsitered protects the seller, not the buyer), is because, while not strictly true (at least not unequivocally), it's the most practical way to approach sales.

PayPal, in point of fact, don't provide unconditional protection for buyers, they just make it easier for a buyer to claim from the seller for non-receipt than it would be via any other way, so if you use and accept PayPal, it's easier to accept that.

Yes, due to the laws in Australia, a seller has an absolute right to say that they don't take responsibility for lost mail if registered is not selected, and they can make that hold up outside of PayPal's standard procedures.

Just to be clear, though, I do not recommend that particular Term of Sale, and practice the opposite.

Re: Postage options and packaging methods explained..buyer wants refund anyway?

perfectly_dark007 — Tue, 11 Sep 2012 03:50:17 GMT

Thank you ghost, thats all I was wondering 🙂 Not that im specifically going that way, it just seems a contradiction to have registered post option (in other words, charging a buyer more than they need to be paying). I also agree with cooper, makes perfect sense, yep its a loss here, already accepted that. Not running high margins anyway but Im not trying to live off the stores income either.

I am fully in support of always posting high value items registered, say anything over $100 value is most likely better posted that way no doubt

Re: Postage options and packaging methods explained..buyer wants refund anyway?

phorum_junkie* — Tue, 11 Sep 2012 12:36:30 GMT

The options are there but you do not have to offer them.

If you want seller protection then you only offer a qualifying method.

If you would rather refund/replace and keep your delivery costs more competitive then you can offer both, personally as I have only had 1:500 untracked items go missing I only offer unregistered post for large letters under $50. For parcels I am using clic & send anyway so have seller protection.