topic Re: Paying for paypal in Selling

Paying for paypal

beadsandweeds — Mon, 15 Jul 2013 09:20:10 GMT

Buyers have the choice whether to use paypal (with extra costs) or bank deposit.

This benefits shareholders of ebay Ink (well it might do if it didn't do so much to reduce activity on ebay by driving away sellers or limiting what is viable to sell.)

What creative ways have people found for redressing this and letting the decision-maker pay for the decision? (Other than discounts for bank deposit.) For instance, would I be within my rights to accept paypal for the item but bank deposit only for postage? Or what about regular postage only with bank deposit, signature and insurance required (at buyer's cost) with paypal?

Re: Paying for paypal

*sparklz* — Mon, 15 Jul 2013 09:23:57 GMT

There is no extra costs for the buyers to pay with paypal.

You do not have to offer paypal if you offer paymente or credit card payments.

You can put in the listing postage discount applies with bank payments BUT no buyer would do that as there is no protection for them.

Re: Paying for paypal

beadsandweeds — Mon, 15 Jul 2013 23:48:52 GMT

Thanks sparklz

In normal usage buyers pay a price, costs are incurred by sellers.

Paymate and credit card are listed under the so-called safe payment options in flagrant evasion of the ACCC ruling on forcing sellers to accept paypal. The cost of accepting credit cards is out of the question for most sellers, and the cost of accepting paymate was lower but ebay did a very smutty deal with paymate to let them back on ebay in return for pricing themselves above paypal. However my question was not about the disreputable reasons for ebays policy. It was about how to implement their policy without surrendering to their bullying.

Re: Paying for paypal

*sparklz* — Mon, 15 Jul 2013 09:55:12 GMT

Excuse me sorry.

Re: Paying for paypal

bsal6160 — Mon, 15 Jul 2013 09:57:46 GMT

I think sparklz answered your question perfectly.

You do have a choice however, either abide by their seller policies for selling on ebay OR dont sell on ebay. In normal usage a buyer pays a price and buys an item which helps pay seller costs. Ebay dont FORCE you to use paypal but rather some form of safe payment method. The choice is yours, its just that most buyers prefer the safety of Paypal.

Re: Paying for paypal

phorum_junkie* — Mon, 15 Jul 2013 10:31:54 GMT

I think you have a few facts mixed up. First the ACCC did not force ebay to do anything, they asked them to reconsider the Paypal only policy, they did not realise that so many buyers preferred to not use Paypal for some strange reason.

The cost of accepting Paymate payments did not go up, I have had an account since it's inception and used to offer it but no longer do so just in case somebody chooses to use it.

I cannot understand why any seller would want to discourage a buyer from using a safe payment method by offering a discount for paying money into a complete stranger's bank account.

Of course buyers ultimately pay all the costs associated with selling as long as the seller has built those costs into the item price, if they don't then that is hardly ebay's fault.

Re: Paying for paypal

beadsandweeds — Mon, 15 Jul 2013 10:41:08 GMT

bsal, maybe your comment was posted before seeing my response to sparklz? I said:

my question was not about the disreputable reasons for ebays policy. It was about how to implement their policy

I am looking for a way to 'abide by their seller policies for selling on ebay' and let a person deciding to increase the costs of the transaction to pay for the increased costs, a way that complies with ebay's oppressive policies. I'm not asking for education about my civil rights, which at present rate will have shrunk to less than nothing within a few years. I assure you I am very knowledgeable on that subject but it has very little to do with paypal or ebay and I don't understand why it keeps being raised on this forum.

Perhaps naively, I imagined that people who are so keen on ebay policies would know, for example whether I would or would not be contravening them if I 'accept paypal for the item but bank deposit only for postage' or charge, not for using paypal, but for associated expenses such as 'signature and insurance'. I researched the forum before posting, and I'm sure this will have been discussed, but didn't find anything helpful.

Though, to be honest, I had more hopes of help from people facing the same problems and overcoming them. I'm still hopeful, though perhaps some will remain silent in fear of persecution.

Now that the fantasy of paypal being safer has been repeated, I fear I'll have to dispose of it if it comes up again, but I'll hold off for now in the hope of getting back to the original topic.

Re: Paying for paypal

davewil1964 — Mon, 15 Jul 2013 12:08:20 GMT

If you aren't shonky then you would have nothing to fear by using a buyer safe payment method.

Re: Paying for paypal

lyndal1838 — Mon, 15 Jul 2013 12:27:42 GMT

Leaving aside the completely unworkable system of paying for the item and posatge by different methods, if a buyer does not pay for postage through paypal it will be considered a Pick Up item and neither the buyer nor the seller will have paypal protection.

You could always give it a try though and let us know how you go. Do you really think buyers came down in the last shower?

Re: Paying for paypal

extra-keen — Mon, 15 Jul 2013 13:34:27 GMT

I do know paypal is quite expensive, but oh sooo convenient.

Todays experience: Message from buyer to say Ï have paid for my item, (given bank deposit details), but you have given me a strike for non payment.

Now go back 4 weeks. Customer orders, but no payment. Reminder messages sent (one auto from ebay, one manual from me). Nothing heard - so open UPI dispute. 4 days later still no contact, close dispute, end of story.

Back to now": I go looking in my bank account for said payment - yes, bingo it is there and made the day after purchase. But it transpires that the buyer used another family members account to make the purchase but put their own ID with the bank deposit.....I wondered where that payment came from??? Oh well, hopefully the customer will like her purchase, it is on its way!

I love paypal, Paymate etc!!!

Re: Paying for paypal

carly2579 — Tue, 16 Jul 2013 05:19:57 GMT

i prefer paypal over bank deposit anyday

Re: Paying for paypal

phorum_junkie* — Tue, 16 Jul 2013 05:58:58 GMT

I think your problem is that you are living in the past if you expect many sellers to want to join you in ways of wriggling out of using Paypal. There was a lot of hot air around the time ebay wanted to make it compulsory but that was because a lot of people just didn't trust a service that was not well known in Australia. In the US and the UK Paypal had been the preferred payment method of the majority of buyers and sellers for many years.

Now most sellers are more than happy to accept it and many of us prefer it while still offering bank deposit. Not only does it make the post sale process much quicker and easier it increses a buyer's sense of security so they are perhaps prepared to pay more than they would risk with no buyer protection plus you have the buyers who don't have the cash to hand but can use their credit card with Paypal, all well worth the 2.4% small fee we pay.

Re: Paying for paypal

*new2vintage — Tue, 16 Jul 2013 06:12:33 GMT

There is no sensible argument or reason for sellers to encourage buyers to pay via an unsafe method. It can affect their reputation, buyer trust and sales. Although I'm not against paying fees I've always believed that buyers should pay for them. People who are totally against paying fees should attend an ordinary auction house where sellers and buyers are charged fees that are of a higher percentage than ebay and paypal fees. It would be a real eye opener.

I can't give you a rundown of all of the fees but you need to pay 10% for GST for a start.

Re: Paying for paypal

springyzone — Thu, 18 Jul 2013 11:55:12 GMT

I understand your pain, with all the extra fees.

But you need to consider the bottom line-will it help you sell or how will it affect your business?

As a buyer (mainly), paypal costs me nothing and to be frank, if i read an ad asking me to pay via paypal for the item but pay for postage into a bank account, I probably wouldn't bother with the item.

I'm okay with pick up only for bigger items, but I don't want my transaction segmented into 2 parts.

As a seller, I can't imagine that system would make it easier for you either. What if someone paid paypal, didn't pay postage into your bank and then put in some sort of claim against you?

All too messy.

As a buyer, paypal seems to offer some protection. I do know that a couple of times when I paid via the bank instead of paypal, because the sellers where having trouble with their paypal accounts, I never got the goods. So I just would refuse to consider bank payment now.

Re: Paying for paypal

beadsandweeds — Fri, 19 Jul 2013 00:59:28 GMT

Thanks springyzone,

a genuine response to my question at last!

I might have had more success if I hadn't let me self got drawn into discussions about the rights and wrongs of ebay, paypal, bank deposit, etc, which aren't relevant (not criticising you for adding a note on that), and losing my temper a bit as well.

Much of that stuff was even more irrelevant because driven by a business perspective. It's true, as phorum and others have stated, that the climate here has become more tolerant of ebay's monopolistic practices (which they manage to endorse using free-trade arguments!), but the main reason is probably that the businesses who have suffered most damage have indeed left. Despite the we-all-love-paypal arguments, I notice that there are still business people talking about leaving, in threads that phorum and others have followed.

If I had thought the paypal for purchase, bank deposit for post was a good solution, I would have implemented it rather than posting here. I mentioned it just by way of illustrating that I'm looking for a better solution. All the same, the idea never involved a buyer actually having to split the payment. I would never have refused bank deposit for the item. I merely wondered whether I would be complying with ebay policy if I accepted paypal for the item but required bank deposit for the postage.

In my view as a solution it is too complicated and would confuse and annoy potential buyers and, as you say, risk unexpected outcomes like a buyer only paying for the item.

The initial problem is not that paypal fees are excessive. They're very reasonable, unlike ebay fees. But ebay fees come out of income--the buyer's purchase. When the item as cheap but bulky and/or heavy, postage is expensive and paypal fees add a proportionally massive overhead to a small sale. I thought posting a question here would work because thousands of other people must have faced the same problems, and maybe some have found better solutions than I.

The obvious solution is to sell elsewhere. On the whole, I'm comfortable with that. Still, there's a reason for wanting to persevere with ebay with books despite it not being business-wise a good idea. It would probably be better if I threw them all or gave them to op shops, but I would like them to reach people who value them. Whatever its faults, I'm sure ebay is the best place for that.

Re: Paying for paypal

digital*ghost — Fri, 19 Jul 2013 02:44:32 GMT

If you want people to use other payment methods, in particular over PayPal, which is obviously the most popular and widely used for many reasons (not just on eBay), then you need to give them more reason to change their habits than PayPal give to maintain them.

That is no easy task.

PayPal is fast, convenient and offers protection for the payment, everything you offer to counter that disavails buyers of these advantages and frankly, not many buyers want to be asked to advantage the seller over advantaging themselves. Yes, you can say that registered post must be used if paying via PayPal, but many will interpret that not as a benefit to them if they use bank deposit, but a penalty for using PP. So not only do you need to give them a good reason for using other payment methods, it needs to be done in a way that doesn't leave a buyer questioning why you don't want them to have the benefits PayPal offers.

The only way that has been done that I know of, is via reverse psychology, and it was a few years ago now - the climate here and use of PayPal has changed so I doubt it would have the same kind of effect. That is, to offer PayPal and bank deposit, then state PayPal Preferred.

Historically and anecdotally, when people say Bank Deposit Preferred, payments via that method decrease. When people say PayPal preferred, payments via bank deposit increase (if but slightly).