topic Re: Argument with a buyer in Selling

Argument with a buyer

ozstockman — Mon, 05 Aug 2013 23:52:27 GMT

I have a buyer who bought a wooden sign from me and then she went into an argument with me that my sign is "wood like laminate" and my item description is misleading because it is not a wooden sign,

I had explained her the whole process how it was made from MDF with nothing laminated in it. I provided her proof that MDF is a wooden material and thus I can call a sign made from MDF a wooden sign. She wasted a lot of my time and was absolutely unreasonable. I offered her a refund from the beginning but reminded her terms and conditions and she would need to post the sign back to me at her own expense($1.20 for postage cost). I even pointed out that I do not do refunds according to my terms and conditions and only provide a store credit but I would make an exemption in her case and I would refund the item cost to her.

She refused to return the item and mentioned many times that she would leave either neutral or negative feedback during her argument about how I must describe my items. I told her politely that she can leave any feedback she wants So she finally has left a negative one.

I have sold 100s of these signs in 3 years and everybody but her has been very happy with them. I even have some buyers coming back and buying more.

I have blocked her from buying anything else from my store. I would recommend others to be very careful with this person. I won't mention her id here but you can see who I am talking about in my feedback.

Re: Argument with a buyer

digital*ghost — Tue, 06 Aug 2013 02:14:39 GMT

I would be asking eBay to remove both the neg and neutral you received recently - the neg is a bit iffy because the listing doesn't say MDF (and I'm not arguing about whether it can be described as wooden, just that in my [limited] experience, eBay do tend to look for any reason NOT to remove a neg), but the neut stands a good chance because the measurements are noted in the description.

Re: Argument with a buyer

ozstockman — Tue, 06 Aug 2013 02:43:48 GMT

I will try it but I do not think ebay will remove them.
"MDF" came up when I was trying to explain her that it is not "wood like laminate" I told her how it is made from MDF, painted and printed directly on MDF with a special flatbed printer. I also gave her links from Wiki and Bunnings that both describe MDF as a wooden material. I told her it is not misleading to say it is wooden if it is made from wooden material. She just did not listen and kept saying the description is wrong. The reason I do not want to add to the description it is made from MDF because from my experience a lot of people who is looking for finished products do not know what MDF is. Where I mention MDF in the item description some of buyers are asking me what MDF is. I believe some of them may not buy it if they do not know what it is. And going into details how MDF is made and what it s in the item description.. Lets say it is a lot of information to describe a small wooden sign that no manufacturer ever provides with their products.

Re: Argument with a buyer

digital*ghost — Tue, 06 Aug 2013 02:51:18 GMT

A few years back, they probably wouldn't have removed either, but it's worth a shot as they are a lot more inclined to remove bad feedback when the info is in the listing, especially comments like "not as big as I thought" etc and there were measurements.

I understand your point about the description, as I'd never heard of MDF until your post, and I did look it up on Wikipedia - pretty sure now that I know what it is I once had a little name puzzle made from it, and I wouldn't have described it to someone as anything other than wooden (before or after knowing what MDF is).

Re: Argument with a buyer

thecatspjs — Tue, 06 Aug 2013 03:01:22 GMT

Mmmm, I think that a natural wood product and MDF(significantly processed wood fibre) product are not really comparable, and have quite different qualities, monetary values, and "desirability.

I think the best descriptions are crystal clear about the product being sold, no ifs or buts. If there is confusion about what MDF is then put a few more explantory words in your description.

Re: Argument with a buyer

ambridgebuckskins — Tue, 06 Aug 2013 03:26:07 GMT

Hello Ozstockman (tis me, the dollhouse bits person who orders custom made stuff from you).

A lot of doll house kits are made from MDF. They are usually described as MDF Craft Wood if that helps any.

It's sort of wood but a man made thingy from wood.

You could get that neut removed by ringing eBay because the size is in your listing. I know a neut isn't meant to hurt but it does when the stars get dinged as well. Once the neut is gone, so are the star ratings.

You could try for the neg removal but that one might be on the whim of whoever you talk to. You'd have to make it clear that MDF is considered a wood in general terms and l don't fancy your chances of making that clear because technically it is a wood fibre board. Nothing lost by trying.

Don't let it get you down. You have terrific customer service and a great service.

Re: Argument with a buyer

springyzone — Tue, 06 Aug 2013 03:39:36 GMT

Three out of four of those neutral feedbacks should have been positives.

Whoever said to describe it as craft wood, or a type of wooden material, that might be the way to go.

Re: Argument with a buyer

ozstockman — Tue, 06 Aug 2013 04:17:59 GMT

Thank you guys.

As you can see I do not say it is made of natural wood. When it is made of natural wood I mention what type of wood it is. In case of MDF signs I simply do not know what kind of wood species have been used to make it.

I will consider mentioning MDF in my item descriptions for all wall/door signs I make. Although it is quite time consuming to do it for all my mdf signs and most important it will for sure scare away some potential buyers who have never heard of MDF. So far there have been no problems with hundreds of signs like this one purchased by my customers. This is just a first one.

I have sent two feedback revisions but it seems that I have not done it in a right way. They have been sent to the actual buyers and the one with the negative feedback has refused it already. What a surprise!

I have found another form to submit a revision to ebay and sent them a request for the negative feedback. Now I am waiting for ebay to take an action. Hope they will do the right thing. And may be the buyer with the neutral feedback will consider to revise her/his feedback as well.

These things do not usually let me down but they take a lot of time to deal with. That's the most disapointing thing in all this.

Re: Argument with a buyer

thecatspjs — Tue, 06 Aug 2013 06:04:14 GMT

I think it is always better to ring ebay to request feedback removal - they will review on the spot and give you an answer there and then.

Haven't heard of a seller having success via email, that being said, it might be that they just haven't come to the boards to brag about it lol.

Re: Argument with a buyer

digital*ghost — Tue, 06 Aug 2013 06:19:17 GMT

@thecatspjs wrote:

Haven't heard of a seller having success via email, that being said, it might be that they just haven't come to the boards to brag about it lol.

That's how I got my neg removed (took 24 hours, or there abouts). I'd say it's the exception to the rule, and I emailed because it required the least amount of effort, so nothing to brag about...

Re: Argument with a buyer

janeababe — Tue, 06 Aug 2013 07:11:05 GMT

Well, looks like I am going to be the odd one out again, which is usual around here.. LOL

MDF is a craft wood. You really cant describe it as being a wooden sign though! Technically, it is pulped up pine wood that is mixed with waxes and resins (or something like that) to make a medium density fibreboard aka MDF 🙂

Lets face it, even cardboard was wood once, but you wouldnt go to the lengths of an arguement about that would you?
I feel that you *misled* your buyer with the description, and she has every right to be peeved about it.

And I dont think a *store credit* for a buyer who has already been stung by a misled description of an item purchase is going to smooth things over, even though you offered her refund and not the store credit.
For sake of face, I would have said keep the sign and here is a full refund too, so sorry you were'nt happy.

I also think you should make every effort to correct your items descriptions. despite a few people on these boards, a lot of people have heard of craft wood, which is MDF, so you can just say they are made from 6mm Craft wood (or what ever mill size you use) 🙂

cheers... 🙂

Re: Argument with a buyer

ozstockman — Tue, 06 Aug 2013 09:16:46 GMT

It looks like it is the same argument starting again.

I do not say it is a timber sign and I do not say it is made from oak, pine etc. I say it is wooden because it is made of a wooden material. If MDF is a craft wood everything that is made of it is wooden.

There are billions of products made of MDF(signs, toys, furniture, picture frames, doors, mouldings and much much more) they are all called wooden(wooden signs, wooden doors, wooden toys, wooden picture frames, wooden furniture etc). MDF is not only a craft wood, it is a common wooden material used everywhere for indoor application. Why on earth one person out of sudden has got a right to decide that it is not a wooden material anymore and now nobody(starting with me) is allowed to call products made from MDF wooden products?

Re your comment about "keep the sign and give a full refund". If you want to support your advise financially I will from now give a refund to every unhappy customer no matter why they are unhappy and let them keep their items. Then I will contact you and you will come with food for my two kids to feed them. How does it sound in regards for your proposal for me to work for free and even to loose money on postage to every unhappy customer?

Isn't that bad enough that paypal does not care that Australia Post looses packages and sellers are the ones who pay for it in full? Let's add more to it to keep all customers happy.

P.S. If you had read what I said earlier you should have noticed that I offered her a refund instead of a store credit. She refused to take it and told me that she wants to keep it.

Re: Argument with a buyer

thecatspjs — Tue, 06 Aug 2013 11:42:11 GMT

You can argue about how individuals should interpret wood, but that doesn't change that there would be more than one person who thinks like I do, to me, wood = natural wood or timber, wooden = natural wood or timber and MDF = MDF - a man-made product with some wood particles in it, along with other stuff to hold it together

If there is any doubt about a product - I just reckon bite the bullet and add to descriptions as additional clarifying details can save for disappointment on both sides of any transaction. Might only cater for a few buyers, but better safe than red dots I reckon.

Re: Argument with a buyer

fourandsixpants — Tue, 06 Aug 2013 13:19:48 GMT

You did the right thing giving your unhappy seller a full refund.

Your description is 'iffy' and not a complete description.

MDF is a man-made 'particle board' product-made from small leftover wooden particles/sawdust and has glues,resins etc added then subjected to much pressure.....it is a processed/manufactured product and I would not call MDF timber or 'wood' per se.

I have worked with both natural timber/wood and MDF. MDF does not have a 'grain' in it like wood/timber does.

Being an avid buyer of fabric I get cheesed when a fabric that is obviously a blend of natural and synthetic is described as 'cotton' which is not totally untrue if it is polyester/cotton blended and not untrue as the seller may not have described as 100% cotton-but item description is not clear in this case. Most fabric sellers, if they don't know the exact content of a fabric usually put in the item description 'not sure of exact content'.

The clearer and more precise you make your descriptions is the way to go, leaving little room for argument, happier buyers and pathway forward to a great transaction.