topic Re: About Return Policies in Selling

About Return Policies

digital*ghost — Thu, 15 Aug 2013 01:12:03 GMT

This was something I was sure I'd read somewhere within eBay's maze of help & policy pages, but proved difficult to find again... However, in light of the new TRS+ requirements and the fact that many sellers will be changing their return policy, I thought it was important to note it as I know it is a common practice to state Returns Accepted with the condition but not for change of mind or only for not as described.

eBay's policy is:

If you accept returns, a buyer can return an item for any reason, including when they change their mind about a purchase. However, you can specify the conditions required for return—for example, if an item must be unused, unopened, or in original packaging.

http://pages.ebay.com.au/help/policies/selling-practices.html

So , if you do not want to accept change of mind returns, you should have the policy set to 'No Returns Accepted'.

Re: About Return Policies

extra-keen — Thu, 15 Aug 2013 01:32:23 GMT

Thank you digital, that is interesting. With 30 day returns being encouraged, for many sellers that will be critical, we don't want things to be used - re-packaged and returned.. LOL and for book sellers - customer reads book and returns for refund??? I wouldn't be offering 30 day returns on books...

Re: About Return Policies

digital*ghost — Thu, 15 Aug 2013 02:00:29 GMT

I have no plans to change my return policy - most of the new TRS+ requirements don't suit my business model at all, so unless sales stop dead after it all takes effect, I won't be doing anything differently.

I think the return policy thing is quite ambiguous in real terms, as I know there are members (both buyers and sellers), who presume 'No Returns' to mean no returns accepted at all, even for not as described or faulty items. The policy above I'd say is eBay's "official stance", but it's a bit like COD in practice, in that the common interpretation of what it means differs, and will cause the occasional hiccup when people's interpretations or understanding differ, rather than guarantee one.

Re: About Return Policies

thecatspjs — Thu, 15 Aug 2013 02:57:27 GMT

Digital the site map is incorrect.

The actual return requirement (as it states on the return section when you are listing) is that your policy meets the requirements of Australian legislation - and this does not include change of mind.

I have conditions on my returns, for example on this ID I meet the whacky-doo seller plus new requirments for returns on all of the listings that have 30 days return. Somewhere on your seller dashboard somewhere you can check if your listings meet the requirement, and mine do.

Another example of misleading site map information. I stumbled across an ebay site map page that says buyer and seller protection is also available on pick up items also - do I believe it, nup.

Re: About Return Policies

digital*ghost — Thu, 15 Aug 2013 03:00:17 GMT

@thecatspjs wrote:

The actual return requirement (as it states on the return section when you are listing) is that your policy meets the requirements of Australian legislation - and this does not include change of mind.

I know, but you can select 'No Returns Accepted' and still meet the requirements of Australian Legislation, because 'No Returns Accepted' does not mean the buyer no longer has their consumer rights - which is the right to a refund if something is faulty, not fit for purpose, or otherwise not as described.

Re: About Return Policies

*crikey*mate* — Thu, 15 Aug 2013 04:04:46 GMT

It doesn't matter what terms and conditions any Australian body or any Australian business, agency or organization includes in their terms of sales, they do not override Australian Consumer Law. No policy, wherever written regardless of who writes it (even the govt itself) can negate or circumvent Australian Consumer Law.

To go through this link, scroll down a bit and open up the PDF booklet provided under the picture of the phone which explains ability and restrictions relating to retuns. Australian Consumer Law

This is a link about refunds and returns from Consumer Affairs Victoria, (CAV) however, their information and advice provided relates to and is based on Australian Consumer Law, and thus can be used by anybody throughout Australia .

Same CAV website, but specifically relating to online purchases.

Re: About Return Policies

pinktoedannie — Thu, 15 Aug 2013 04:03:40 GMT

By stating 'no returns accepted' on new items it is admitting in black and white that you are going against the consumer rights under Australian law. A buyer could take it as such. What are you going to say 'oh, I didn't mean it' if they leave you a negative over it? It holds no weight.
Better to accept returns - you don't have to do it on ebay's terms, but you do have to make sure you're not breaking the law.

Re: About Return Policies

*crikey*mate* — Thu, 15 Aug 2013 04:18:36 GMT

@pinktoedannie wrote:
By stating 'no returns accepted' on new items it is admitting in black and white that you are going against the consumer rights under Australian law. A buyer could take it as such. What are you going to say 'oh, I didn't mean it' if they leave you a negative over it? It holds no weight.
Better to accept returns - you don't have to do it on ebay's terms, but you do have to make sure you're not breaking the law.

Technically speaking, that is not entirely true. It may be how an uninformed buyer interprets your statement, but it does not indicate that you are necessarily circumventing a consumer's legislated rights. (SOME misinformed sellers may believe that their T&C trump the ACL or they may not even be aware of it's existence and the laws it dictates - but guess what? That doesn't matter)

It is just a policy, not a law, and as I have previously explained, no policy can negate or circumvent Australian Law.

For example, In Queensland, Corporal Punishment is legislated as LEGAL in ALL schools, whether private or public. However Education Queensland have a Policy prohibiting the use of the cane/ corporal punishment in PUBLIC schools.

What this means is that should an employee of Education Queensland carry out an act of Corporal Punishment, they have not committed a criminal offence or broken any laws and thus cannot be penalised by the law, however, they have broken a term of employment by their employer, so their employer can take action against them in accordance to what is set out in their POLICY document.

The Dept of Education is NOT breaking any laws by having this policy as there is no law saying that they can't create it, but their policy cannot trump Australian Legislation. Civil Law tells you what you can do, Criminal Law tells you what you can't do.

Re: About Return Policies

pinktoedannie — Thu, 15 Aug 2013 04:30:19 GMT

Your example is a bit confusing, however, you are wrong. Businesses are not allowed to misinform customers. They are also not allowed to have policies that contravene existing law.

Re: About Return Policies

thecatspjs — Thu, 15 Aug 2013 04:43:58 GMT

Regardless of consumer law ebay policy ....

To meet Top Seller Plus requirements and get badge, your 30 day returns can be conditional.

Re: About Return Policies

digital*ghost — Thu, 15 Aug 2013 07:51:55 GMT

@pinktoedannie wrote:
Your example is a bit confusing, however, you are wrong. Businesses are not allowed to misinform customers. They are also not allowed to have policies that contravene existing law.

That is true, but the primary point I was trying to make in this thread is that the return policy on eBay is to note what your are prepared to offer buyers in addition to their consumer rights.

eBay's Listing Policy is that if you acept returns then you must accept returns for any reason, including change of mind. Just like eBay's listing policy is that you have to offer at least one safe payment method - none of these contravene any consumer laws, they are eBay policies. Therefore it is technically the same kind of contradiction of policies to say Returns Accepted (but not for change of mind) as it is to offer PayPal then in the description say Bank Deposit Only.

To further clarify, if you have access to the new global policy rules, when you select 'No Returns' as a policy, this note pops up:

Australian Consumers have legal rights to obtain a repair, replacement, or refund for goods purchased if they are faulty, not fit for purpose or don't match the description. Your returns policy applies to additional rights you offer such as returns for change of mind or incorrect choice.

Re: About Return Policies

thecatspjs — Thu, 15 Aug 2013 08:04:26 GMT

The more I read on the site map the more I realise how confused and contradictory the information is on this matter, for example the ebay site map states ...

Sellers are required under Australian law to accept returns for goods purchased from a business and provide Australian consumers with a repair, replacement or refund if the goods etc etc

And then ebay site map - goes on to explain in the next breath an entirely differently take on what accept returns actually means when filling in a listing and in fact only want me to select no returns accepted if I don't offer returns for change of mind or any reason.

Does not make sense to me ??? it is very misleading for both seller and buyer.

Rock and hard place really .......

Re: About Return Policies

digital*ghost — Thu, 15 Aug 2013 08:24:00 GMT

@thecatspjs wrote:

The more I read on the site map the more I realise how confused and contradictory the information is on this matter, for example the ebay site map states ...

Sellers are required under Australian law to accept returns for goods purchased from a business and provide Australian consumers with a repair, replacement or refund if the goods etc etc

And then ebay site map - goes on to explain in the next breath an entirely differently take on what accept returns actually means when filling in a listing and in fact only want me to select no returns accepted if I don't offer returns for change of mind or any reason.

Does not make sense to me ??? it is very misleading for both seller and buyer.

Rock and hard place really .......

I agree, in fact I would really like the returns policy that shows on listings (prior to clicking on the tab to read further) to reflect what is actually being offered in a way that properly clarifies things - technically, a store is not supposed to have a sign up that just says 'No Returns', but they can have one that says 'No returns for change of mind', as that does not attempt to mislead buyers into thinking they can't bring faulty goods back, however if you select No Returns on eBay, that's all it says you are not given any space to further clarify that term like you are if you accept returns.

In reality, I suspect there would be few issues if someone displayed Returns Accepted and excluded change of mind, and I think doing it that way is better than the alternative, but the less scope there is for things to be open to interpretation (or missed), the better.

Re: About Return Policies

thecatspjs — Thu, 15 Aug 2013 08:44:14 GMT

Thoughts please .... its a bit of the top of my head, but based on ebays own instructions regarding this and consumer legislation that requires my business to have clear policies that do not mislead consumers...

Returns accepted

Returns are offered for any reason where there is a pre-sale agreement between the buyer and seller that is made on the basis that the goods can be returned for refund if they do not fit or change of mind. The buyer is responsible for the costs to return goods by registered post within 30 days from purchase date

If there is no pre-sale agreement, returns are also accepted with reasonable return post costs reimbursed to the buyer, if the item being returned meets any of the following conditions:

Is faulty, or become faulty within a reasonable period of time after purchase
Is not fit for any purpose that was stated in the listing
Does not match the listing description
Is not of the quality that was described in the listing, or
Fails to meet other mandatory consumer guarantees under the Australian Consumer Law.

Re: About Return Policies

digital*ghost — Thu, 15 Aug 2013 09:18:23 GMT

^Seems to pretty much cover all the bases to me.