topic Re: buyer threatening with CTTT in Selling

buyer threatening with CTTT

gt4junkie — Sat, 24 Aug 2013 03:32:48 GMT

Hi all,

I sold a tablet afew weeks ago which im having problems with the buyer and are now threatening to go to the CTTT.

What happened was a mistake was made on the warranty remaining of the item id sold. Id been told I had 14 months remainig, turned out it was only 2. The buyer wasnt happy and wanted a refund. I agreed as they were trouble from the start, and i just wanted the experiance over.

They then lodged a paypal dispute for "item not as described" and I advised the buyer id follow the paypal steps and provided a return address as shed asked and asked when she would send it back.

I called paypal and gave them the situation and the paypal dispute was found in my favour that very same night, as a warranty is an accessorie and wasnt covered.

I emailed the buyer and advised them yo check the dispute first before sending the item. Thats where correspondence ended until today.

The buyer still sent the item back, which I received 2 days later, I emailed them asking why they sent it back, never heard back, so I contacted paypal, I was still in the right and sent the item back to the buyer.

2.5 weeks have passed and they have got back In contact wanting a refund as they claim they never recived it, and that I broke my agreement to refund them. They are claiming I still have the item and are threatening to take it to the CTTT (consumer trader tenancy tribunal.

As id never heard back from the buyer, id presumed everything was sorted dont have the receipt of sending the item back.

In this situation, whats my best course of action?

Re: buyer threatening with CTTT

beach_and_home — Sat, 24 Aug 2013 04:29:07 GMT

Wow, what a mess!! If I was you, I would just do nothing at the moment. Just leave it with them. It is still possible that the parcel will turn up back with them, if it hasn't already. I'm sure you don't need to have all of your mistakes pointed out to you, so I won't get into that. But don't ever let anyone threaten you with reporting you to Fair Trading etc. So what I say. If you've done nothing wrong then there is nothing to worry about, is there?

Re: buyer threatening with CTTT

extra-keen — Sat, 24 Aug 2013 04:42:14 GMT

Just make sure they are on your blocked buyer/bidder list. Other than that I'd just ignore them. Don't stress over it!

Re: buyer threatening with CTTT

gt4junkie — Sat, 24 Aug 2013 04:48:33 GMT

Thanks for the response. Admittedly I havnt sold much on ebay, and the whole transaction was a mess. This was the buyers first ebay purchase, and took about 10 back and forth emails just to receive payment. So it should have been a sign from the get go that it would be more head ache than its worth, afew mistakes were made on my behalf, shouldnt have agreed to refund the buyer before the dispute was closed.
But the dispute was definately closed in my favour and advised to the buyer before the item was sent back.

I definately havnt done any wrong according to paypal. Yet what im worried about is the fact they are going to fair trading, and I dont have evidence that I reposted it. Im alil worried in the fact that they waited 2.5 weeks before contacting me as I havnt held onto the reciept for that long. Does the buyer have a right to go to fair trading? And without the receipt as proof, can they force a refund? I dont want to end up out of pocket the item i sold, and the $

Helps appreciated.

Re: buyer threatening with CTTT

beach_and_home — Sat, 24 Aug 2013 05:19:41 GMT

Unless you have a registered business ABN I doubt that Fair Trading or any other Govt. body will do anything. I'm pretty sure those bodies are only set up to protect consumers from shonky Businesses. If you do not have a business then this was simply a transaction between two private people and no-one else can get involved. (except for ebay and paypal of course, but they've already finalised their judgement). So your buyer is just trying it on. Don't let them intimidate you. You haven't said there was anything wrong with the tablet, just that the warranty wasn't as long as you thought. So if there was nothing wrong with it, then your buyer was an idiot. Sounds like they had a bit of buyer's remorse.

I do not believe that they didn't get it back in the mail. I believe they realised that they couldn't afford it.

Re: buyer threatening with CTTT

bluelillypilly — Sat, 24 Aug 2013 05:31:06 GMT

I am also a private buyer and seller and do not sell nearly enough to come into a tax report, but I do keep all receipts and a copy of the invoice sent for a couple of years !! Shutting the stable door this time but suggest you buy a filing cabinet and do the same . A paper copy is somehow more reassuring than keeping it on my computer - which may break down or go missing ! You just never know when you may need that piece of evidence. I have had abusive emails 3 MONTHS after the item was sold ( telling me they never bid,paid etc !!)Never be amazed at what some buyers will do but te majority are lovely and have even got internet friends from Ebay. My items are not expensive but the tracking the Post office give on all parcels now is well worth the postage going up a bit in July.

Re: buyer threatening with CTTT

gt4junkie — Sat, 24 Aug 2013 06:23:25 GMT

Thanks alot for your responses. Really appreciated. The only issue was the warranty, the tablet was in perfect condition and they got what cost me $850 ten months ago for $500. As long as fair trading cant make me refund $500 to the buyer when I dont have the item in my possession, I can sleep easier

Re: buyer threatening with CTTT

phorum_junkie* — Sat, 24 Aug 2013 11:56:04 GMT

If I had stated in the listing there was a longer warranty then there actually was then I would not have fought the Paypal dispute, I would have told them I would refund on return which is what you originally told the buyer you would do. Of course once you said that the buyer would go through Paypal so they would be sure they had the correct address for the return.

I hope the buyer did not fund their purchase with a credit card, if they did then they may do a chargeback and if they used trackable post to return the item to you then you may very well lose which will cost you the $500 plus another fifteen

Re: buyer threatening with CTTT

thecatspjs — Sat, 24 Aug 2013 12:16:09 GMT

Unless the transaction was unauthorised, individuals can only request that a bank initiate a chargeback via a credit card for an authorised transaction in very limited circumstances for limited types of goods, within very limited timeframes.

Re: buyer threatening with CTTT

phorum_junkie* — Sun, 25 Aug 2013 11:42:22 GMT

Unless the transaction was unauthorised, individuals can only request that a bank initiate a chargeback via a credit card for anauthorised transaction in very limited circumstances for limited types of goods, within very limited timeframes.

That is true in the case of a purchase from a shop however many banks have a far more liberal policy when it comes to items bought on line or over the phone and will indeed do a chargeback if a buyer has nit received goods or has received defective goods. The time scales are different for each bank but some will allow a chargeback up to 12 months or more after payment.

The biggest problem is that some card providers, usually credit unions and on line only accounts specifically exclude 3rd party payments so unless you used a card direct, not through Paypal, you will be unable to do any type of chargeback unless you can convince them the transaction was unauthorised.

Re: buyer threatening with CTTT

thecatspjs — Sun, 25 Aug 2013 12:34:30 GMT

If you read the exclusions within the terms and conditions of the major banks in Oz, there are relatively few purchases of goods that you could even have a request considered for, whether it is internet purchase or not.

Maybe the credit unions are different, but I think likely not, they don't really have dollars to spare to waste $$$ or resources on recovery of cardholder / consumer determined spending.

Me thinks the bank seek to minimise their losses in their terms and conditions in relation to irresponsible consumer internet shopping.

Chargebacks are predominately in place for fraudulent use of credit cards, or, on occassion, for bank initiated recovery of $$$ for user credit card overspends outside of agreed credit limits.

Re: buyer threatening with CTTT

lyndal1838 — Sun, 25 Aug 2013 12:59:02 GMT

Most of my chargebacks have been for non receipt of goods but I have done two for goods not as described.

The CC policy on returning the not as described goods is even stricter than the paypal policy in that you have to get a signature on the returned goods, not just proof that you have posted it.

thecatspjs, do you have any practical experience of doing chargebacks or are you just giving us your opinion of how it should work?

Re: buyer threatening with CTTT

thecatspjs — Sun, 25 Aug 2013 13:09:48 GMT

Lyndal I don't intend to post anything explicit regarding personal / life / business experience here.

Readers and other posters can check the terms and conditions of their credit cards, and decide for themselves.

I will say though, I do not post on whim and make up things as I go along based soley on what others might advise.

I think I have more than demonstrated that on these boards.

Re: buyer threatening with CTTT

i-once-was-bump — Sun, 25 Aug 2013 13:19:02 GMT

What about chasing up the matter with Aus Post, you must have had insurance on a $500 item so I would be claiming on the insurance asap.

Re: buyer threatening with CTTT

retailtherapist_8 — Sun, 25 Aug 2013 13:46:50 GMT

I dont want to appear too harsh . However if I advertised an item with 14 month warranty left on it and made an error it wouldnt suprise me to have a pretty annoyed buyer on my hands. Secondly no matter what ebay have said is their policy in regards to Warranties the fact remains that a purchaser may very well make their buying decision based on the fact that you were advertising an item with 14months warranty coverage not , it becomes more of a moral issue I guess.

Personally I can understand the buyers anger at the way they have been dealt with. You said you agreed to the refund, then changed your mind, because ebay said its ok not to honour the details of what you were offering a buyer in your listing. You also said it was your mistake.

You have sent it back but did not keep a receipt or have tracking details even though as you state you felt you had a difficult buyer. So as a result neither you nor the buyer can prove who has it in their possession.

Sorry but I think this is a mess created by the you Seller in this instance.

Re: buyer threatening with CTTT

springyzone — Sun, 25 Aug 2013 20:26:20 GMT

Agree.

I do have sympathy for the seller. I understand he feels he sold something at a good price because he paid more for it 10 months back.

But that isn't the point.

The point is, would the buyer have wanted to buy it had they known the exact conditions, or would they have wanted to pay that much, knowing the short warranty period. Would they have bid?

For all we know, there could have been other, similar items they were watching and the extended warranty may have been what clinched the deal.

I understand it was an honest mistake, but I would be like the buyer, upset that i was having to wear someone else's mistake.

Re: buyer threatening with CTTT

dags111 — Wed, 28 Aug 2013 02:32:30 GMT

Agree also

I'm with the buyer on this one. The buyer bid on this item on the basis that it had a 14mnth Warranty which was wrong.

As a buyer I would not have been happy & would have expected at very least a partial refund. As a seller, I would have been embarressed about My mistake in the listing and would have tried to do everything I could to make it right, whether that meant a partial refund and let the buyer keep the item or acdcept the return of the item and give full refund. And if the buyer returned the item, I would have paid for return postage. Why should the buyer be out of pocket for your mistake.

I can not understand at all what you were thinking in returning the item back to the buyer after they returned it. Just cancel the sale & offer to 2nd highest bidder or relist. Too late now. When you reposted was it via registered post? There is no way that I would send anything worth more than $50 unregistered. And if it was worth $500, I would make sure to add enough insurance to cover that.

Re: buyer threatening with CTTT

create_fashion-com-au — Wed, 28 Aug 2013 03:11:35 GMT

Hello,

I really feel for you

It's not a great feeling to be in this situation.

I've been told before, you really need to have thick skin to sell on Ebay. The person who gave me that advise is 100% correct.

This will definitely be a learning exp for you. I know I've learnt so much since I opened up my business and selling in the online market.

In this situation I would have refunded the buyer the money when you received the item. (they were clearly hard work from the start).

You could have relisted the item and sold it with the correct warrantee info and maybe sold it for a bit more to make up for the loss you incurred within the first sale.

I know you only did what you thought was the right thing to do (nothing wrong with this). It's very important that you have a tracking number on every single item that you send esp when it’s an expensive item like a tablet (IPAD), what ever they're called.

If you have a tracking number you will be able to see if the item was delivered as it seems like they want the item for free (and they don’t want to pay to post it back to you a second time for a refund).

It they report you, they will do it. Most people say threatening things just out of frustration and to scare you.

Just make sure you have saved every single email and any correspondence you have on this sale.

Best of Luck