topic Re: parcels going missing in Selling

parcels going missing

flashback_deals — Fri, 28 Sep 2012 02:00:05 GMT

Ever since I have started listing books cheap with cheap normal post, I have had an increase in missing parcels

On my other account, I have sold 29 in the past month, 11 items missing. Considering before then I dont really use plain old normal post, I think some of these one may be trying to just get a refund?

They all paid by PayPal so since I also offered Registered Post and they chose not to use it, will PayPal still see in their favour if they lodge a dispute?

Re: parcels going missing

bsal6160 — Fri, 28 Sep 2012 02:13:23 GMT

With over a third of your items going MIA I would be talking to AP, and why is it as soon as something goes wrong with a sale the seller automatically assumes that the buyer is trying to rip them off?

Re: parcels going missing

digital*ghost — Fri, 28 Sep 2012 02:19:13 GMT

They all paid by PayPal so since I also offered Registered Post and they chose not to use it, will PayPal still see in their favour if they lodge a dispute?

Unless you have some other form of proof of postage that PayPal will accept, they will find in the buyer's favour.

Re: parcels going missing

flashback_deals — Fri, 28 Sep 2012 02:24:56 GMT

I usually tell them to check their local AP and if they don't have it, I usually wait a week in case it rocks up here

All except one were sent as letter rate and the other one went as parcel rate, but I think I might just stick to Click & Send or Registered Post now

Re: parcels going missing

licoricebabyandfabmama — Fri, 28 Sep 2012 03:04:26 GMT

That seems really strange to me?? Ive shipped out 10 maybe in the last month with regualar post and aside from one buyer getting dinged extra postage, Ive had no problems. Dumb question but are you sure that they were under 20mm? and the right weight?? It would seem now that the buyers are having to pay the extra postage on underpaid packages- so maybe a few were peed off and just decided to pay and then get the book for free by disputing, long shot there. Otherwise I would say there is a problem with the post office. I would think a book is pretty easy to feel through the package and tell its a book, especially if your business name is on it, I would hope no one is stealing at the PO. Seems real strange though.

Re: parcels going missing

tall_bearded — Fri, 28 Sep 2012 03:40:06 GMT

We also sell books (other ID) and in the last year only two of the over 2000 books sold have gone missing, yet the vast majority were sent regular post as large letters.

The trick is use “Do Not Safe Drop” stickers which are available over the counter for free at your local post office, with the effect of these stickers being, if the buyer is not home, and if it won’t fit into a locked letter box, it must be carded and returned to the post office for collection. That is they provide the same level of security inherent with registered post without the cost.

As for proving postage, simply maintain a postal ledger, and though PayPal is unlikely to accept it as proof of postage, should you decide to dispute PayPal decision, as long as it is maintained in the following way (confirms with the Supreme Court rules governing proof of postage/service), in all probability the Ombudsman will.

Use a ledger/journal book/sheet with columns for - Date Sent, To Whom Sent (Full Name), Address Sent Too , and Signature.

Now simply maintaining the ledger is not enough. What is equally important is how it is maintained.

All entries must be contemporaneous. That is no reconstructions or backdated entries and you must be prepared to provide a Stat Dec to that effect.

When entering the name and address transcribe it from the letter/parcel/pack not the invoice. This eliminates any inference that it went missing because it was sent to the wrong address. That is if the name and address in the ledger is transcribed from the letter, and if it matches the information on the invoice, this proves the name and address on the letter is the same as what appears on the invoice.

Now for the most important bit, when you sign off the entry you are saying you personally validated the entry on the sheet against the bundle of letters. That is you located the actual letter, validated it against the ledger, and personally placed it into the post box or handed to the Aust Post staff.

Now as previously stated if you follow this process you, and should you decide to dispute PayPal’s decision, then the ombudsman will, in all likelihood, accept that the item which appears in the ledger was not only handed to Aust Post but also it was sent to the correct person at the correct address.

Re: parcels going missing

bluerose5838 — Fri, 28 Sep 2012 04:58:56 GMT

tall_bearded --------Is your comment for real?

I mean no disrespect but I just had to ask as if this is the case it could really cause some seriuos issues with Paypal policies etc.

I would love to know more to be honest

Re: parcels going missing

tall_bearded — Fri, 28 Sep 2012 05:26:20 GMT

To get a licence to provide 3rd party financial services in Australia, PayPal was required to bring all of their decisions within the jurisdiction of the Financial Ombudsman Service, who, when reviewing those decisions is not bound by PayPal policy as to what is acceptable as proof of postage. Instead they, the ombudsman, just like any other court or tribunal must base their decisions on what precedent says is proof of postage.

Bluntly put, if the Supreme Court says a Postal Ledger is acceptable proof that something was posted, then PayPal’s reluctance accept it as proof becomes irrelevant. Irrelevant because, if you dispute the decision, the Ombudsman will look to what precedent say is proof as distinct to what PayPal will accept as proof.

Re: parcels going missing

***super_nova*** — Fri, 28 Sep 2012 05:33:42 GMT

flashback_deals how do you post your parcels? If you just drop them in a mail box, maybe take them to the PO instead for a while. It is far too high percentage to be coincidence; I doubt if the parcels could be disappearing elsewhere. And unless what you are selling is something appealing to penniless crooks, I cannot believe so many of your buyers would be making false claims, or their mail boxes would be raided.

In any case I would be reporting every missing item, not to expect refund but so they know if there is mail being dumped in your area, or if people are making repeated claims that they did not receive parcel.

Re: parcels going missing

tall_bearded — Fri, 28 Sep 2012 06:19:05 GMT

onestop, as you said you wanted to know more, here an extract from an earlier post on a different thread dealing with item not received claims.

Though the general principles have been in place for well over 100 years, it appears some people are still unaware who is at risk when it comes to distance trading transactions.

Most goods purchased on eBay are specific goods and therefore become the property of the buyer immediately on payment.

Though the item belongs to the buyer they remain at the sellers risk while in their possession, however once handed over to the carrier, risk passes from the seller to the buyer.

The responsibility for insuring the item rests with the person who is at risk. This means, it up to the buyer to insure the item whilst it is transit.

Though the buyer is at risk after the item has been handed over to the carrier, the buyer may still have a right of recovery against seller, but only if they can prove the non-receipt or damage was on account of the seller negligence, and if the buyer wishes to recover on that basis, then the onus is on the buyer to proved the negligence.

Now to the above add the following.

PayPal Buyer Protection is a recovery servicer and not insurance.

If the seller can prove the item was posted and the buyer says they didn’t receive it, then PayPal can’t recover the monies from the seller unless they can prove the reason for failed deliver was on account of the sellers negligence and the mere fact the item wasn’t received is in itself insufficient to prove negligence. This is why the PayPal User Agreement under the Heading Buyer Protection contains the following clause -1.6. ... If the seller presents evidence for an Item Not Received claim that they shipped the goods to your address, we may find in favour of the seller even if you did not receive the goods.

Sort of puts the old “PayPal protects the buyer, registered post protects the seller” into its proper prospective.

Re: parcels going missing

sigmatraders — Sat, 29 Sep 2012 12:52:00 GMT

You are right. It is better use registered post service to protect your parcels. Now I am use eparcel, it is so good. You can track your parcel easily and good help from post office in case there is something going wrong with your parcel. / Sigmatraders

Re: parcels going missing

federalbookcollectibles — Sun, 30 Sep 2012 14:02:33 GMT

Click and Send is what we use for all books which exceed large letter size which for us is most of them. It works out cheaper than regular satchels and has tracking at no extra cost which meets Paypals criteria. It lists the items awaiting postage, imports the buyers details, sends an email to the buyer and adds the tracking number to the Ebay listing.

My loss rate through Australia Post is about 1 in the 1000 so if you are losing a third of your books there is something very wrong with something somewhere - do you hand address or use labels, are your labels peeling off in transit, are you paying the correct postage rate, have you tried using a different post office - are you selling books on petty crime to petty criminals...... 🙂

Re: parcels going missing

flashback_deals — Sun, 30 Sep 2012 15:11:39 GMT

I hand write them if I send them through in a yellow A$ envelope or a padded envelope, only labels that dont sticke well sometimes is my return address one - they really hate cardboard!

My local AP know me well, they know I often come in with large amounts and miost times I get to jump the queue 🙂

They all go at the correct rate as I have the big letter gauge here when they gave me one a few months back

Re: parcels going missing

federalbookcollectibles — Tue, 02 Oct 2012 21:32:46 GMT

If you trust your local then there may be an issue with the contractor that picks up from your local AP or at the sorting centre as that is the only common handling of your items.

Report the issue to your local AP as there may be others in your area which are having the same problem.

Re: parcels going missing

jameshouseofstyle — Wed, 03 Oct 2012 02:26:12 GMT

Flashback, we don't know what to think, but the conclusion - as much as it's unsavoury it seems to point at the customers trying it on.
Before Click & Send we had heaps over the years of non received items, since Click & send - none, zero, zippo, zilch - and we send many more parcels now than before, as one gets progressivelly busier with natural growth in t/over.
We asked at our post office, know them well, used them for the last 12 years - they told us that Regular parcels get delivered in exactly the same manner as Click & Send, given at the door, left at the L/box, or left a card if no one home - so Click & Send don't get any prefferential treatment, unless they are with signature.
So the only difference here from customer's point of view is that there is a proof of delivery so they know they can't claim non delivery (if they are that way inclined).
Also, we have heard (and seen) a customer who ONLY buys items on Ebay that are listed with regular postage and claims non receipt in almost every instance - and keeps getting away with it!
Cheers, JHS

Re: parcels going missing

flashback_deals — Wed, 03 Oct 2012 04:27:03 GMT

Just reas a message from the buyer in question, apparently she hasnt got other items at around the same time as i posted more books to her. she admitted she never updated her postal address

Pretty much isnt my problem, I sent to her eBay and payPal registered address, if she moved and never updated the address, it's not my fault if it went to her old address

Re: parcels going missing

tall_bearded — Wed, 03 Oct 2012 19:27:19 GMT

Had the same thing happen to me.

Sent the item to address XYZ only to be advised 2 days later that they had moved, but hadn’t updated their contact details.

Long story cut short: item sent regular post to old address; buyer lodges an item not received claim with PayPal; PayPal decided for the buyer on the grounds postage wasn’t proved; sent them a copy of the email received from the buyer notifying of the change of address 2 days after it was sent and giving them 2 days to reverse their decision or they can explain the rationale behind their decision to the ombudsman.

Outcome; decision reversed with 36 hours to spare.

That is, you can always achieve the required outcome, but only if you acquire the knowledge as to what buttons to push, and how to push them.

Re: parcels going missing

flashback_deals — Thu, 11 Oct 2012 02:37:43 GMT

Well Well isn't this exciting lol

The books got returned to my PO Box today lol at least I know where they are 🙂

Re: parcels going missing

Anonymous — Thu, 11 Oct 2012 08:47:38 GMT

tall_bearded I printed what you said, I'll take that little gem and well and truely ledge it.

lee