topic Re: eBay Auctions & Consumer Guarantee in Selling

eBay Auctions & Consumer Guarantee

thecatspjs — Wed, 25 Sep 2013 08:08:59 GMT

I noticed on another recent thread (on another topic) that board posters were indicating that goods purchased through eBay auctions were not covered by the same consumer guarantees as buy-it-now goods.

I just wanted to note that according to fair trading information on government websites, this appears not to be the case and that buyers of Australian businesses goods that are purchased through the eBay auction process, are covered by the same consumer guarantees as buy-it-now goods.

Some fair trading website facts that are easily located via google below, (my highlighting)

"Consumer guarantees do not cover goods bought at auction, where the auctioneer acts as an agent for the owner of the goods."

"eBay sales are not considered to be an auction as eBay does not act as an agent on behalf of the seller. Therefore, eBay sales are covered by the consumer guarantees under the Australian Consumer Law"

Re: eBay Auctions & Consumer Guarantee

this-way-up — Wed, 25 Sep 2013 08:21:07 GMT

@thecatspjs wrote:

I just wanted to note that according to fair trading information on government websites, this appears not to be the case and that buyers of Australian businesses goods that....

That is correct !

However, goods sold at auction by sellers that are NOT in business of selling those goods...are classed as "private sellers" and the consumer protection rules do NOT apply.

And that, my friend INCLUDES eBay and ALL other on line and off line auctions. If a seller lists an item for sale by auction and the seller does not sell that item or that kind of item as part of their "normal" business activities, then it is a "private auction sale" and not covered by consumer Law !

Re: eBay Auctions & Consumer Guarantee

thecatspjs — Wed, 25 Sep 2013 08:39:09 GMT

@this-way-up wrote:
@thecatspjs wrote:

I just wanted to note that according to fair trading information on government websites, this appears not to be the case and that buyers of Australian businesses goods that....

That is correct !

However, goods sold at auction by sellers that are NOT in business of selling those goods...are classed as "private sellers" and the consumer protection rules do NOT apply.

And that, my friend INCLUDES eBay and ALL other on line and off line auctions. If a seller lists an item for sale by auction and the seller does not sell that item or that kind of item as part of their "normal" business activities, then it is a "private auction sale" and not covered by consumer Law !

Indeed. Nonetheless, whilst consumer guarantees may not be in place in some situations, there are a range of remedies one can pursue in relation to private sellers, as there is still a contract in place.

Re: eBay Auctions & Consumer Guarantee

this-way-up — Wed, 25 Sep 2013 08:52:43 GMT

What contract ?

Do you mean the Paypal User Agreement that specifically and expressly states -

S7.6 You have no automatic entitlement to receive any payments under the PayPal Buyer Protection Policy.

and

S7.5 Where we are unable to recover the whole or part of your payment from the seller we may, in our absolute and sole discretion, decide to make a payment as a gesture of goodwill.

Or is it some other contract you refer to?

Re: eBay Auctions & Consumer Guarantee

thecatspjs — Wed, 25 Sep 2013 08:54:22 GMT

The sales contract between the seller and buyer - Sale of Goods Act.

Re: eBay Auctions & Consumer Guarantee

digital*ghost — Wed, 25 Sep 2013 08:56:56 GMT

I thought the response posted by coast_golf in another, quite recent thread explained very well that an eBay listing constitues a contract no matter if the seller is acting as a business or privately, that the contract includes the description, and that there are (lawful) remedies available if the goods don't meet that description (since there is more than one body that regulates consumer rights / protections / guarantees, and different things are handled by different bodies).

That's the way I read it, anyway.

Re: eBay Auctions & Consumer Guarantee

thecatspjs — Wed, 25 Sep 2013 08:59:15 GMT

Yes. I agree DG.

Re: eBay Auctions & Consumer Guarantee

digital*ghost — Wed, 25 Sep 2013 09:07:12 GMT

@this-way-up wrote:
What contract ?

Do you mean the Paypal User Agreement that specifically and expressly states -

S7.6 You have no automatic entitlement to receive any payments under the PayPal Buyer Protection Policy.

Another, semi-regular poster (tall_bearded - who may come along to clarify) with some legal expertise once explained (if I remember correctly) that PayPal can not guarantee buyer protection and/or refunds in all circumstances, and thus must word their agreement in that way, because they are not offering insurance (they are not licensed as insurance providers, and to do so would involve a whole lot of other legal implications).

Re: eBay Auctions & Consumer Guarantee

this-way-up — Wed, 25 Sep 2013 09:07:48 GMT

Yes...If the seller is a business.

Re: eBay Auctions & Consumer Guarantee

this-way-up — Wed, 25 Sep 2013 09:10:39 GMT

@thecatspjs wrote:
The sales contract between the seller and buyer - Sale of Goods Act.

I am happy to be corrected...

But I think you will find the Sale of Goods Act is a UK (as in United Kingdom...like England and Wales etc) Act 🙂

Re: eBay Auctions & Consumer Guarantee

digital*ghost — Wed, 25 Sep 2013 09:11:59 GMT

@this-way-up wrote:
Yes...If the seller is a business.

I think you might need to read the post I'm referring to again...

This should take you straight to it...http://community.ebay.com.au/t5/Selling/Credit-Card-Payments-More-Secure-Than-What/m-p/703871#M37600

Re: eBay Auctions & Consumer Guarantee

thecatspjs — Wed, 25 Sep 2013 09:13:45 GMT

Common Law and Sale of Goods Act are applicable to all sales contracts, whether between a buyer and a business or a buyer and a private seller.

Re: eBay Auctions & Consumer Guarantee

thecatspjs — Wed, 25 Sep 2013 09:25:41 GMT

@this-way-up wrote:
@thecatspjs wrote:
The sales contract between the seller and buyer - Sale of Goods Act.
I am happy to be corrected...
But I think you will find the Sale of Goods Act is a UK (as in United Kingdom...like England and Wales etc) Act 🙂

As with many laws, Australian legislation may have origins from the UK.

Australian juridictions each have Sale of Goods Acts.

Re: eBay Auctions & Consumer Guarantee

this-way-up — Wed, 25 Sep 2013 09:25:42 GMT

@digital*ghost wrote:
@this-way-up wrote:
What contract ?

Do you mean the Paypal User Agreement that specifically and expressly states -

S7.6 You have no automatic entitlement to receive any payments under the PayPal Buyer Protection Policy.

Another, semi-regular poster (tall_bearded - who may come along to clarify) with some legal expertise once explained (if I remember correctly) that PayPal can not guarantee buyer protection and/or refunds in all circumstances, and thus must word their agreement in that way, because they are not offering insurance (they are not licensed as insurance providers, and to do so would involve a whole lot of other legal implications).

Yes...and also you might find that it is accepted in legal "talk" that 'may not' means shall not or not allowed to etc...Like this -

S3.1 If you are a seller, we may not deduct funds from your account in connection with a Reversal where the following requirements are met for a transaction:

Condraticted by -

S7.3 If your purchase meets the requirements for the PayPal Buyer Protection Policy, we will attempt to recover your payment from the seller.

In affect, a buyer simply asking for a refund automatically dis-qualifies a seller from "seller protection"...and...the actual user agreement itself automatically dis-qualifies the buyer from "buyer protection" excpet in - our absolute and sole discretion.

Re: eBay Auctions & Consumer Guarantee

thecatspjs — Wed, 25 Sep 2013 09:29:48 GMT

Can I respectfully seek this-way-up that if you wish to discuss paypal agreements and responsibilities that you start another thread for same.

Re: eBay Auctions & Consumer Guarantee

this-way-up — Wed, 25 Sep 2013 09:30:49 GMT

In 2010, sorry I think it was Gazzetted or whatever they call it in 2011...The Competition and Consumer Act 2010 replaced all those such Acts...

It is also know as The Australian Consumer Law.

However, I still think you will find that the Sale of Goods Act is a UK Act...Not Australian ! 🙂

Re: eBay Auctions & Consumer Guarantee

this-way-up — Wed, 25 Sep 2013 09:37:40 GMT

@thecatspjs wrote:
Can I respectfully seek this-way-up that if you wish to discuss paypal agreements and responsibilities that you start another thread for same.

What do you mean?

You have started the thread...THIS thread !!

Consumer Protection for both buyer and seller for all sales on eBay, is administered by eBay's sister company, Paypal....Except for sales not paid for through Paypal...in which case they basically tell you to go jump!

Re: eBay Auctions & Consumer Guarantee

thecatspjs — Wed, 25 Sep 2013 09:40:26 GMT

Thats ok,

I will leave you to this thread and start another.

Re: eBay Auctions & Consumer Guarantee

this-way-up — Wed, 25 Sep 2013 09:50:57 GMT

@thecatspjs wrote:
Thats ok,

I will leave you to this thread and start another.

OK...Sorry the answers didn't fit in with what you wanted...But all I am doing is basically quoting what 'they' say.

Good luck with your new thread...I promise not to post to it 🙂 But at the end of the day the facts will remain - An item sold at private auction is NOT protected by consumer law...Not to mention the fact that eBay[slash]Paypal are not going to give any protection regardless of whether it's a business or private auction except in - our absolute and sole discretion.

Re: eBay Auctions & Consumer Guarantee

*crikey*mate* — Wed, 25 Sep 2013 09:59:31 GMT

@this-way-up wrote:
In 2010, sorry I think it was Gazzetted or whatever they call it in 2011...The Competition and Consumer Act 2010 replaced all those such Acts...

It is also know as The Australian Consumer Law.

However, I still think you will find that the Sale of Goods Act is a UK Act...Not Australian ! 🙂

From 2012

Key points to remember about the Australian Consumer Law's consumer guarantees

In relation to the supply of goods to consumers, there are nine consumer guarantees covering matters such as the quality of the goods, title to the goods and sale by description.
Depending on the particular consumer guarantee which is breached, the consumer may have recourse against the supplier or manufacturer.
For the purposes of the ACL, a manufacturer is not only the person who made the goods but includes the person who placed their name, branding or mark upon the goods, or held themselves out as the manufacturer.

The ACL is not the only source of rights and obligations in relation to the supply of goods. For instance, the common law and sale of goods acts may apply.1

Link

and FTR - EVERY ONE OF THESE ACTS IS STILL IN FORCE.

Sale of Goods Act 1923 (NSW),
Sale of Goods Act 1896 (Qld),
Sale of Goods Act 1895 (SA),
Sale of Goods Act 1896 (Tas),
Goods Act 1958 (Vic),
Sale of Goods Act 1895 (WA),
Sale of Goods Act 1954 (ACT)
Sale of Goods Act 1972 (NT)