topic Re: I tried to end an item early but could not even though it had more then 12 hours to run in Selling

I tried to end an item early but could not even though it had more then 12 hours to run

rgherron — Wed, 25 Sep 2013 00:41:45 GMT

I tried to end an item early but could not even though it had more then 12 hours to run . I have had to do this before . I have a pawn shop and this happens not unfrequently often because owners of items redeem them at the last minute . I have not had trouble doing this before . Am I doing something wrong or has eBay changed its policy to make this difficult for sellers to withdraw items ?

Re: I tried to end an item early but could not even though it had more then 12 hours to run

*crikey*mate* — Wed, 25 Sep 2013 00:57:25 GMT

Hi, I can't answer your question, but I do have a question for you, if you don't mind.

At what point in time do items that you have in your pawn shop become legally yours to do with as you please?

Is there a time when the customer can't come back and get their posessions?

Re: I tried to end an item early but could not even though it had more then 12 hours to run

cq_tech — Wed, 25 Sep 2013 00:58:16 GMT

Simple solution - stop listing items which you don't yet own, or to which you don't have full legal title.

Re: I tried to end an item early but could not even though it had more then 12 hours to run

*crikey*mate* — Wed, 25 Sep 2013 01:03:49 GMT

I am pretty sure that under both ACL and eBay, that you can only send items to auction or offer them for sale if you have legal ownership/clear title of/to them.

So, the OP must have legal title to the things he lists, he surely wouldn't break the law (and admit it), would he?

So I'm thinking the OP is being a really nice bloke and letting the previous owner have their item back afterall.

So, OP, when does a person forfeit ownership of an item they surrender to a pawn shop?

Re: I tried to end an item early but could not even though it had more then 12 hours to run

phorum_junkie* — Wed, 25 Sep 2013 11:45:35 GMT

You are breaching ebay policy by listing items that you do not own so why should anyone tell you how to continue doing the wrong thing? Even if they have nit been redeemed in time and are legally yours if they are also on sale in your store you are not allowed to list them on ebay either.

I have no doubt some people will have reported this thread and your policy breaches to ebay, I hope they take the appropriate action, the last thing reputable sellers want is people who ignore policy to the detriment of us all.

Re: I tried to end an item early but could not even though it had more then 12 hours to run

coast_golf — Wed, 25 Sep 2013 12:04:23 GMT

I think there might be a bit of gun jumping. Yes, if he(?) has listed the items for sale prior to the expiration of the redemption period then yes, an offence is being committed but we have absolutely no evidence that this is the case.

It could be the case that the redemption period has expired and he has lawfully listed the items for sale and the original owner has asked if the pledge could be redeemed outside this period, something that a pawnbroker is quite entited to comply with, but is of course in no way legally obligated to.

My primary concern is listing without Paypal as a payment option. While that is allowed on eBay, one of the obligations of a pawnbroker is to make all reasonable attempts to obtain the best possible price and you are listing on eBay without accepting a payment method that the vast majority of members use. I know if a pawnbroker was selling one of my pledges (remembering that I'm entitled to any proceeds of the sale over and above the amount owed) and was excluding a signification portion of the market by virtue of non acceptance of a payment method I'd be more than a touch annoyed. I'm not saying that an arbiter would necessarily agree with that assessment, but it's possible that eventually one of your customers may decide to test it for themselves.

I also note that you claim on one of your completed items that the market value of an item was $700 yet you sold it for $395, this to me seems inconsistent with your obligation to obtain the best possible price. May be worth discussing with your solicitor the validity of this sales tactic.

Re: I tried to end an item early but could not even though it had more then 12 hours to run

rgherron — Fri, 04 Oct 2013 01:40:42 GMT

Of course all the pledges I am selling have well and truely expired. Nothing I am doing is even mildy unethical let alone illegal . I am actually giving owners of expired items the opportunity to reclaim them long after the pledge has expired and I have alreadu gone to considerable trouble to advise them of that fact .

While "coast-gulf" seems incliined to understand that the rest of his assertions about not offering paypal and hence not getting the best price I can for the item are equally nonsensical . For reasons of their own and quite unexpalined despite my excellent eBay record -far better than any of yours - they stopped me using my paypal account or i would still be using it .

frankly It you unhelpful and judgemental people are representitive of the so called eBay "community" then it should be renamed immediately to say the eBay "Kanagroo Court "

I will find my own solutions from now on.

Re: I tried to end an item early but could not even though it had more then 12 hours to run

rgherron — Wed, 02 Oct 2013 20:45:06 GMT

Sorry that should be Kangaroo Court of course .By the way phorum_junkie are incorrect slanderous allegations in eBay forums OK under eBay policies about which you obviously profess to be something of an expert ?

Re: I tried to end an item early but could not even though it had more then 12 hours to run

rgherron — Fri, 04 Oct 2013 01:42:21 GMT

Thanks for the small vote of confidence crikey_mate . I am entitled to offer items for sale as soon as the pledge has expired as at that time they become mine . What I always do is try my best to advise customers that their pledges have expired then wait a bit to give them time to respond then and only then offer the items for sale . Sometimes it occurs that the items are listed for sale say with eBay and then the customer returns and wants to retrieve his item . Quite apart fro the fact that I like to give customers every opportunity to get their items back and not lose them as they usually mean far more to the original owner than a prospective buyer I am obliged by law to return these items to the owner if their sale has not occured . Where the law would stand in the case of an item being listed and bid on even but not yet sold I am unsure but I always like to give the owner the benefit of any doubt and immediately withdraw these items from sale . I have been in this business for 23 years without a single official complaint in all that time so I must be doing something right so I get a bit testy when people from a position of great ignorance start jumping to conclusions and making slanderous accusations about my behaviour from the safety of their bedrooms.

My mother use to tell me "If you can't say something helpful mind your own business" it is quite good advice.

Re: I tried to end an item early but could not even though it had more then 12 hours to run

cq_tech — Thu, 03 Oct 2013 02:24:06 GMT

rgherron, several years ago I used to do quite a lot of contract electrical work for my local pawnbroker and as I remember it, the law was quite specific at the time, but it may well have changed during the ensuing period.

The laws are essentially the same for all states, insofar as when a client pledges an item (i.e. borrows money against its value), they will generally have 3 months in which they can redeem their pledge by paying the amount borrowed plus interest (which used to be an appalling 15% per month but could even be higher now).

If they return before the 3 months has expired but can't afford to redeem their pledge, they can still pay the outstanding interest to date, and the pawnbroker must then hold it for up to a further 3 months (6 months in total).

However, if they don't return within the initial 3 month period, the pawnbroker may then publicly advertise in the local press that all of his unredeemed pledges will be auctioned off to the public on a certain date, and he must then hold a public auction sale where he is permitted to have an agent in the crowd bid on his behalf, but every item must still be sold through that auction.

Also, at any time prior to the advertised auction date, the owner of an unredeemed pledge may still pay the outstanding amount and recover their item. However, once the public auction has commenced, their property becomes legally forfeit.

Now unless the law has changed, this means that the only way a pawnbroker can legally sell items pledged through his own pawnshop is to have purchased them himself at public auction. He can NOT just sell something he took as a pledge because the time limit for redemption has expired, and the law is very specific here as it is designed to protect people from being ripped off by unscrupulous pawnbrokers (of which there are many).

In light of the above, my question to you is really quite simple. When did the law change to allow pawnbrokers to bypass the public unredeemed pledge auction and permit them to dispose of unredeemed pledges any way they see fit, whether being sold at retail through their own shop or auctioned privately through ebay?

Re: I tried to end an item early but could not even though it had more then 12 hours to run

cq_tech — Fri, 04 Oct 2013 01:43:27 GMT

Why else would I ask if the laws or regulations have changed in the intervening years since I did?

As rgherron has been in the industry for 23 years, my assumption is that if anybody knows, he would.

So thanks for your unsolicited & unnecessary comment, but I'll wait for the expert's answer if it's all the same to you.

Re: I tried to end an item early but could not even though it had more then 12 hours to run

thecatspjs — Thu, 03 Oct 2013 04:04:57 GMT

Trading in second hand goods of many types I am familiar with a range of legislation.

Your commentary is not based on the legislation in any state that I can see. In Victoria there is no requirement to auction goods in the manner you have described.

CQ and others anyone can do a quick google and confirm in 5 seconds flat that the information in CQs post is incorrect.

The OP has indicated that they have direct experience of over two decades in the area, so I do not understand how doing contract work for a pawnbroker several years ago has provided you with an expertise in excess of the OP.

The legislative frameworks in this area have changed over the past couple of decades. Changes (from around 1998) saw new players taking advantage of this including Cash Converters and the like. None, of which are required to dispose of the goods in the manner you have described.

Re: I tried to end an item early but could not even though it had more then 12 hours to run

cq_tech — Thu, 03 Oct 2013 04:13:33 GMT

Cats, you appear to read a lot but comprehend little, although if I'm to take your word for it, you're clearly far better versed in the use of Google than I am, in which case I'm sure you won't mind providing the relevant links which will answer what I posed as a question, and not an explanation of how things work today, as I know the regulations have changed.

Re: I tried to end an item early but could not even though it had more then 12 hours to run

thecatspjs — Thu, 03 Oct 2013 04:20:44 GMT

@cq_tech wrote:
Cats, you appear to read a lot but comprehend little.......

CQ if that what is what you think, thats fine by me.

Let others think what they like according to the posts on this thread - they tell the tale.

Re: I tried to end an item early but could not even though it had more then 12 hours to run

thecatspjs — Thu, 03 Oct 2013 04:33:03 GMT

@rgherron wrote:
I am entitled to offer items for sale as soon as the pledge has expired as at that time they become mine .

For others viewing this "entertaining" interaction - the answer was provided by the OP in one of their posts. IMO the response is consistent with the legislation and regulations in Victoria (the framework I am most familar with).

EDIT Please no-one report the comment in the post above mine from CQ regarding my character - it doesn't faze me, one can expect any more from this poster

Re: I tried to end an item early but could not even though it had more then 12 hours to run

iamanark — Thu, 03 Oct 2013 04:45:26 GMT

“Well what an unhelpful , ignorant, arrogant, judgemental little group of charmers you are”

Yes, eBay is a community, but there are some sad individuals here .

And one of this little group of charmers was recently caught out breaching the Commonwealth Postal regulations and their actions were being followed up by Australia Post,

Yet they have the hide to reign over the Kangaroo court here .

We are all in the gutter …. And some belong there

Re: I tried to end an item early but could not even though it had more then 12 hours to run

bsal6160 — Thu, 03 Oct 2013 05:47:08 GMT

Now howcome we ARE all hanging Cq for his comments? He clearly states

'rgherron, several years ago I used to do quite a lot of contract electrical work for my local pawnbroker and as I remember it, the law was quite specific at the time, but it may well have changed during the ensuing period. "

A good escape clause by the way....

The OP's original post implied that the item had still belonged to the owner. ANY reasonable person would have come to the same conclusion that most did on this subject. Selling an item that wasn't his as that's what the original post implied. Instead of posting a tirade of abuse back, maybe a more diplomatic approach would have been to clarify your point? Forum members may have been able to provide more positive advise that way.

Re: I tried to end an item early but could not even though it had more then 12 hours to run

coast_golf — Thu, 03 Oct 2013 06:54:48 GMT

@rgherron wrote:

While "coast-gulf" seems incliined to understand that the rest of his assertions about not offering paypal and hence not getting the best price I can for the item are equally nonsensical . For reasons of their own and quite unexpalined despite my excellent eBay record -far better than any of yours - they stopped me using my paypal account or i would still be using it .

It's obviously none of my business why your Paypal account was suspended/cancelled/whatever and my post, while not intended as legal advice, was a friendly 'heads up'.

My area of interest is QLD law so it would be rather presumptuous of me to assert that the Small Claims Division in NSW would be in agreeance with my point of view but nevertheless I'd be concerned that while advertising on a particular medium where the vast majority of purchases are paid for by a method that you do not accept may run afoul of the following requirement -

If pawned goods have not been redeemed at the end of the redemption period and the principal lent on the goods was greater than the amount prescribed by the regulations, the pawnbroker must, as soon as reasonably practicable, sell the goods in a manner conducive to securing the best price reasonably obtainable

Going on to claim a market value that is almost double the selling price can, in my mind, mean 1 of only 2 things -

1. You did not sell the goods in a manner conducive to securing the best price (hence my initial concerns).

2. Your advertising is deceptive and/or misleading (and I don't believe that is the case, $700 would seem a touch ambitious IMO but certainly within the ballpark).

Labelling my post as nonsensical and judgemental is a touch ironic given you are complaining of being judged by a kangaroo court. Again, it was to alert you to something you may not have even considered and I cast absolutely no aspersions on your character. As for having "a far better ebay record" than any of us, I have 2 other accounts with FB (and better DSR's) that exceed yours by a significant amount. Numerous posters here do not do so from their primary account so beware of making assumpions on that basis.

I wish you all the best in your endeavours.

Re: I tried to end an item early but could not even though it had more then 12 hours to run

thecatspjs — Thu, 03 Oct 2013 07:31:04 GMT

My take on this is that ebay still attracts a significant number of users who seek items for pick up only, make payment via bank deposit or are up for making payment via other safe means such as paymate or merchant credit card.

IMO most goods being sold on ebay are promoted to a vastly larger market than if sitting on store shelf, even in the absence of paypal being offered.

Re: I tried to end an item early but could not even though it had more then 12 hours to run

cq_tech — Thu, 03 Oct 2013 07:58:53 GMT

rgherron, at no time did I intend to imply that you were acting illegally or unethically and I sincerely and genuinely apologise if you believed that to be the case.

I was simply reiterating the regulations as they were explained to me at that time, and which I had no reason to doubt, which is also why I expected that things would be much different now, yet rather than providing links to the relevant current legislation and correcting my misapprehensions, one self-opinionated poster saw fit to ridicule my post instead.

No "Kangaroo Court here"; just somebody who happens to be interested in the current FACTS.