topic Re: Buyer Gave Neg Unfairly in Selling

Buyer Gave Neg Unfairly

21ladyluck — Sat, 19 Oct 2013 09:14:06 GMT

Buyer bought a puzzle from me. It's securely wrapped and put in a large envelope to keep the postage down.

So there is NO tracking unless the buyer wants to pay for a "signature", which they don't for low cost items.

I always take photos while at the post office of the buyers address and AP postage imprint.

Buyer emailed me she never got it. I sent her the photo showing it was sent and to check with the post office.

She said it was my fault as there was no tracking. That wouldn't have helped anyway as we all know. I explained why.

I said I was sorry but I'm not responsible and will not give a refund. After all, I have NO proof that she did not get it and simply wanted the money back. We all know there are some buyers like that.

So she's given me neg feedback unfairly. It's the first one I've gotten and I have over 1500 feedbacks.

How do I reply to her negative feedback to tell the truth about what happened ??

Pam

Re: Buyer Gave Neg Unfairly

4946marks — Sat, 19 Oct 2013 09:20:30 GMT

What unfair your neg feedback or the customer that paid for an item and didnt get maybe this customer is being honest thought of that

Re: Buyer Gave Neg Unfairly

imastawka — Sat, 19 Oct 2013 09:23:29 GMT

As a seller you should be keeping your customers happy. Was $9.85 worth 12 months of neg fb?

Maybe the PO did lose it, but arguing over such a small amount? Like I said, was it worth it?

Re: Buyer Gave Neg Unfairly

4946marks — Sat, 19 Oct 2013 09:36:09 GMT

i think you deserve the bad feed back and i hope she claims item not received as well i know i would if i didnt get the item aust post loose items everyday just wait until it happens to you then see what it feels like claim all customer just want there money back just wrong pure greed

Re: Buyer Gave Neg Unfairly

21ladyluck — Sat, 19 Oct 2013 09:36:55 GMT

If I have proof I sent it, why do you expect me to refund the money??

I noticed you got a neg because your buyer said an item was destroyed in transit. You did NOT refund the money to them.

Why? You basically said in your reply feedback that you didn't believe the buyer so no refund.

Why do you expect me to automatically believe my buyer when you didn't believe yours?

I have PROOF that I sent it. Either Australia Post lost it or she's lying. Either way, why should I give a refund when I've done nothing wrong?

Pam

Re: Buyer Gave Neg Unfairly

*crikey*mate* — Sat, 19 Oct 2013 09:37:41 GMT

@21ladyluck wrote:

How do I reply to her negative feedback to tell the truth about what happened ??

Pam

it needs tweaking, but something along these lines

I have no control over what Australia Post does with a package once I post it."

BTW, why would the ciustomer voluntarily pay for SOD? If they paid by PayPal, SOD is YOUR insurance, not theirs, why would they pay for YOUR insurance?

(Plus I think SOD is only for parcels, Registered is for letters - and if this was a parcel it would have a tracking number, have you?

If you wish to protect yourself against this in future, then you need to post by a trackable means of postage and have lodgement proof and if you are not prepared to cover the cost of this, then you have to CHAERGE the cistomer, don't give them an option as they will naturally choose the cheapest option on most occasions,

If they open up a paypal dispute for INR, if you cannot provide both a tracking number and proof of lodgement they will likely win and be awarded the refund anyway, so you may as well cut out the middle man and refund them in the hope of reaching an amicable conclusion.

Re: Buyer Gave Neg Unfairly

4946marks — Sat, 19 Oct 2013 09:46:34 GMT

If you read properly customer claimed damaged in transit wouldnt go to post office and put a claim in as per ebay rules not mine so customer put a claim on paypal and lost whats that telling you i also sent the same item to south aust the same day packaged the same way so it travelled 800km further and had no problems receiving as far as you winge you have no proof you posted because item has no tracking again ebay rules not mine so why should poor customer pay for item that has gone missing your problem

Re: Buyer Gave Neg Unfairly

*crikey*mate* — Sat, 19 Oct 2013 09:46:47 GMT

@21ladyluck wrote:
Buyer bought a puzzle from me. It's securely wrapped and put in a large envelope to keep the postage down.

So there is NO tracking unless the buyer wants to pay for a "signature", which they don't for low cost items.

I always take photos while at the post office of the buyers address and AP postage imprint.

Buyer emailed me she never got it. I sent her the photo showing it was sent and to check with the post office.

She said it was my fault as there was no tracking. That wouldn't have helped anyway as we all know. I explained why.

I said I was sorry but I'm not responsible and will not give a refund. After all, I have NO proof that she did not get it and simply wanted the money back. We all know there are some buyers like that.

So she's given me neg feedback unfairly. It's the first one I've gotten and I have over 1500 feedbacks.

How do I reply to her negative feedback to tell the truth about what happened ??

Pam

oops - sent as a letter - you need to register this - (not SOD - this doesn't exist for letters) and again, as this is YOUR Seller protection, no customer is going to voluntarily pay for it, you need to remove that option. If the buyer paid by PayPal, that's all they need for Buyer Protection.

"I always take photos while at the post office of the buyers address and AP postage imprint."

This does not prove that you lodged or posted the item. It proves that you photographed the item whilst at the Post Office. It does not prove that you left the item there and handed it over to Aus Post for delivery.

For proof, you need a tracking number, you then need to ensure that the parcel's tracking number is scanned into Aus Post's system, i.e. "lodged" (it's not enough to just toss it into a post box as it may get lost/stolen before it is scanned)

It is your decision as to what postage service you use and charge for.

If you choose not to obtain tracking, then you need to reconcile yourself with the fact that sometimes parcels may go missing and there is not a thing that you can do about it,

Many sellers put 20c or so away from each sale to cover these kinds of events.

Re: Buyer Gave Neg Unfairly

21ladyluck — Sat, 19 Oct 2013 09:47:09 GMT

How about buyers taking some responsibility?

When I buy something I know if I don't pay for insurance, I'm taking a risk. And YES I have had things go missing. It's part of having something sent through the mail.

Yes, I have sent replacements because something went wrong and I wanted to make it right. I have even given away items because I've felt bad over something that got messed up that wasn't anyone's fault.

I try to treat people as I want to be treated. I do NOT do it because I'm afraid of the feedback. I do it because it's the ethical thing to do.

I would not have the kind of feedback I have if I didn't bend over backwards for people. I enjoy helping people when I can.

BUT I will NEVER ever give in to a scam or threat just to keep that feedback. If she had been nice we might have worked something out.

Pam

Re: Buyer Gave Neg Unfairly

*crikey*mate* — Sat, 19 Oct 2013 10:10:01 GMT

The buyer has over 100 feedback as a seller, and it is clear that you have chosen to do battle with someone who clearly knows the system and rules better than yourself.

They have left 9 negatives and 2 neutrals THIS MONTH - 5 of the negatives for Item not received - at least three of which were given with NO communication to their seller.

I'm not too sure about you, but this sends alarm bells ringing in my neck of the woods, If I wasn't aware of her history before sending the item, then I would have made real sure I was before communicating with her and handled her with KID GLOVES - she has mentioned refunds 4 times this month! That should have given you an indication of how to handle this customer!

Re: Buyer Gave Neg Unfairly

digital*ghost — Sat, 19 Oct 2013 10:16:27 GMT

@crikey*mate wrote:

I'll second that, but I did want to mention a couple of things in general...

@21ladyluck wrote:
If I have proof I sent it, why do you expect me to refund the money??

Most buyers do not consider themselves responsible for the safe delivery of the items they purchase and will hold the seller responsible regardless of SOD, registered and PayPal. It is pretty much the general expectation that a buyer is entitled to their money back if they didn't receive an item (even though it's by no means as simple as that in reality), but what is fact, is that is the climate of eBay and something that needs to be taken into consideration when you sell here, IMO, because it's very unlikely to change.

Just as an aside...

If the buyer paid by PayPal, that's all they need for Buyer Protection.

That's potentially a contentious statement. If a seller has proof of postage, the buyer is not eligible for Buyer Protection - because a buyer is not (legally) entitled to a refund just because they didn't get the item.

But...SOD and registered are not they only methods for proving postage, and there are a number of methods for proving postage that are both cost efiicient and don't carry any compensation.

So, the interesting thing is, a buyer has (effectively) more protection (via PayPal) if the seller doesn't use SOD or registered, but they have more rights (via all payment methods) if they request and pay for services which provide cover.

I try to treat people as I want to be treated. I do NOT do it because I'm afraid of the feedback. I do it because it's the ethical thing to do.

As a seller, when I make business decisions, they're based on two things - what is best for my customer, and what is best for my business - with that in mind, I post the majority of my items as unregistered letters and provide a refund or replacement to the buyer for items that don't arrive.

Re: Buyer Gave Neg Unfairly

littlefrench — Sat, 19 Oct 2013 10:32:11 GMT

@ OP

If I was the post office staff I'd chuck you out!!

taking photographs!! the queues are long enough with out wallys taking photos

do it properly and stop mucking about

Re: Buyer Gave Neg Unfairly

jensmanchester-australia — Sat, 19 Oct 2013 10:47:21 GMT

With the short time that buyer has been a member and with the number of non positive feedback they have left in that time I would be contacting ebay and asking them to investigate this buyer. As part of their new policy to protect sellers they are now looking at buyers who leave a lot of non positive feedback.

For future reference, if a buyer claims item not received the first thing to do is to ring Australia Post and ask them to lodge an investigation and advise the buyer this is what you are doing.

Whether or not this buyer is being honest is hard to say based on the number of missing parcels they appear to have had but there is no doubt that at times parcels do get lost. If a parcel is genuinely lost you need to put yourself in the shoes of the buyer and wonder how you would feel if you haven't received something you had paid good money for.

Another thing to do is to offer a refund on condition the buyer provides a stat dec stating they didn't receive the parcel - this generally weeds out the honest ones from the dishonest ones if you are in doubt about the buyer being truthful.

Re: Buyer Gave Neg Unfairly

belindabargainhunter — Sat, 19 Oct 2013 12:17:13 GMT

This buyer does seem suss but that's why you need to make sure u have more than just a photo for proof. I guess u need to way up charging more postage, replacing missing items and the cost of tracking.
Most of my packages have been send with no tracking and over the years two has gone missing and one with tracking also got lost. Since a number of sellers didn't use registered post when I paid for it and I am covered by PayPal I only pay what I need to.
I do think if u take the chance u need to be responsible for the product being lost in the end.

Re: Buyer Gave Neg Unfairly

phorum_junkie* — Sat, 19 Oct 2013 12:30:25 GMT

You have no proof you sent anything, you have proof you paid for postage but I know that my PO often give me letters back after stamping them as the box outside is going to be emptied before a pick up is made from the PO.

Unless you register a letter and it shows as delivered why in the world would you not just refund without question if the buyer says they have not received their item?

Re: Buyer Gave Neg Unfairly

thecatspjs — Sat, 19 Oct 2013 12:59:11 GMT

@phorum_junkie* wrote:
You have no proof you sent anything, you have proof you paid for postage but I know that my PO often give me letters back after stamping them as the box outside is going to be emptied before a pick up is made from the PO.

How can any buyer have confidence in sellers with statements like these PJ - I am sure that you must have meant something different than it sounds - as has happened once before ?

PO returning lodged post articles outside of correct process to do so is just not on - ever. I think Australia Post made that clear the last time you posted something like this.

Re: Buyer Gave Neg Unfairly

heiner2929 — Sat, 19 Oct 2013 13:39:11 GMT

oh Cats....with the risk of being SHOT DOWN IN FLAMES by the 'clique' - the name PJ ( forum junkie) suggests that advice comes thick and fast and sometimes with not too much tact. I have one or two like minded friends who snap to attention and barrel forth advice - be it gentle/helpful or right in your face ........( blah, blah,blah - do this/that/the other - no problem - thats what I do......) ....there is always some advice given that will fly in the face of all reason. ( I have been celebrating the ongoing life of my hubby tonight so my mind is a little warped) - but I recall seeing a post from PJ stating that she has taken parcels to the PO and then popped them into the outside boxes with exactly the same result as a parcel posted with no proof - for the life of me I don't understand why.

It would be fabulous if all ebay sellers/buyers participated in the basic ( s*#t - I can't think of the wording but it's something like do as you would like others to treat you)

Sellers should always be responsible for delivery of items ( even if it means paying that little bit extra for registering for items over a certain value)

catspjs - I like your style and to anyone else - bring it on I say - as tonight , in my mindframe - I can take on the best........LOLOLOLOL

Re: Buyer Gave Neg Unfairly

imastawka — Sat, 19 Oct 2013 14:38:10 GMT

@21ladyluck wrote:
How about buyers taking some responsibility?

When I buy something I know if I don't pay for insurance, I'm taking a risk. And YES I have had things go missing. It's part of having something sent through the mail.

Yes, I have sent replacements because something went wrong and I wanted to make it right. I have even given away items because I've felt bad over something that got messed up that wasn't anyone's fault.

I try to treat people as I want to be treated. I do NOT do it because I'm afraid of the feedback. I do it because it's the ethical thing to do.

I would not have the kind of feedback I have if I didn't bend over backwards for people. I enjoy helping people when I can.

BUT I will NEVER ever give in to a scam or threat just to keep that feedback. If she had been nice we might have worked something out.

Pam

It was $9.85!! It didn't cost you $9.85. That's how much she paid you. Being stubborn cost you a neg

There.s a lesson to be learnt regardless of buyers history. If you didn.t like her attitude, refund her and then block her. Then you never have to deal with her again

Re: Buyer Gave Neg Unfairly

thecatspjs — Sat, 19 Oct 2013 14:50:36 GMT

@crikey*mate wrote:

"I always take photos while at the post office of the buyers address and AP postage imprint."

This does not prove that you lodged or posted the item. It proves that you photographed the item whilst at the Post Office. It does not prove that you left the item there and handed it over to Aus Post for delivery.

For proof, you need a tracking number, you then need to ensure that the parcel's tracking number is scanned into Aus Post's system, i.e. "lodged" (it's not enough to just toss it into a post box as it may get lost/stolen before it is scanned)

Paypal do accept a broader range of proof of post than a tracking number.

A photo at the PO of envelope with a post office post mark addressed to the buyer may or may not suffice as proof. A mail register with post office stamp may also suffice. It is a matter for paypal to determine according to their proof of lodgement and proof of addressee requirement.

Whilst tracking numbers assists for proof of lodgement purpose you do not have to have a product that comes with tracking to prove lodgement ie. registered post letters and parcels that are not scanned at lodgement, but you have a stamped lodgement slip.

Re: Buyer Gave Neg Unfairly

imastawka — Sat, 19 Oct 2013 14:53:33 GMT

Also, if I might add, you can purchase pre-paid registered envelopes that you tear off the slip and retain

the tracking number and they can be posted in an ordinary mail box. You don't even have to take them to the PO