topic Re: Is a refund without return of goods normal practice? in Selling

Is a refund without return of goods normal practice?

dogsncats3 — Sat, 26 Oct 2013 02:15:47 GMT

I have a buyer who bought a vintage radio in working order but it must have been damaged in transit. he has opened a case against us. We have asked for the radio to be returned and then we will give a full refund. The buyer does not want to return the radio before receiving a refund. Is this normal practice?

Re: Is a refund without return of goods normal practice?

arlottstreetstation — Sat, 26 Oct 2013 02:32:43 GMT

I would certainly check with Consumer Affairs but in my opinion the answer is no. No Return, no refund. How do you know if it was damaged or not? - Also how do you know who caused the damage?

Re: Is a refund without return of goods normal practice?

thecatspjs — Sat, 26 Oct 2013 03:14:06 GMT

No it is not "normal practice" unless the seller agrees to provide a refund under these circumstances or mutually agrees to let the buyer keep the goods.

If you do not wish to refund without return, I would continue to be clear that the goods must be returned to you, and on receipt of them and verification of their claim, you will issue you a refund.

You may also wish to offer to reimburse reasonable return post costs so they are not out of pocket, after the goods have been received and fault verified.

I would also politely suggest that you understand if they would work towards resolving the matter via the paypal dispute resolution process if they are not comfortable with the arrangement you are suggesting.

Paypal most usually requires that buyers return the goods in not as described cases, unless the buyer can clearly demonstrate that the cost of return post is unreasonable compared to the value of goods.

IMO its always tricky to manage these types of situations when buyers make such requests.

Re: Is a refund without return of goods normal practice?

phorum_junkie* — Sat, 26 Oct 2013 11:28:58 GMT

If it is visible damage then ask for a photo, if it shows damage then what would be the point of asking the buyer to return it? If it is just not working then I would ask the buyer to either supply a condition report or to return it and if it turned out to be faulty I would refund the cost of the return postage.

Re: Is a refund without return of goods normal practice?

kustomizer99 — Sun, 27 Oct 2013 00:04:32 GMT

A good seller should cover the cost of return postage for an item that was damaged in the mail or not as described. In other words, the buyer should not be out of pocket by one cent as the result of a seller's negligence.

Certainly, there are buyers oiut there committing fraud but thankfully they're in the minority -- as most people seem to belive in karma and/or some form of eternal punishment for lying.

**bleep**, these emoticons here are ugly!

Re: Is a refund without return of goods normal practice?

thecatspjs — Sun, 27 Oct 2013 02:31:37 GMT

Further to my earlier posts, I would add:

If I have made an error in a listing, or there is a problem I have missed with the goods I sell, I usually refund without return (on basis of photo or other evidence provided by buyer) or if the goods can still be resold with profit that I do not wish to forgo, I then cover return post costs on receipt of goods and verification of flaw or fault.

If any buyer via paypal claim or not, insists on a refund without return of goods, without me first making that offer to them, I would request return of those goods, with refund and post reimbursement on receipt and verification of fault or flaw. Whilst frustrating to receive goods that are faulty, it is poor buyer behaviour to expect to keep goods without return. Requesting return post costs is a different matter all together.

Re: Is a refund without return of goods normal practice?

zigzagdot — Sun, 10 Nov 2013 04:32:18 GMT

Before this happened to me I would have agreed. There is no insurance for Sellers EVEN if you carry the return costs, I sent a tracked, pre paid, return satchel to the Buyer but she did not return the item UNTIL it the matter evolved into threats! I'm convinced she had no intention of returning the item, I was stupid enough to refund before item was returned!

If you are confident that the item you sent was in the condition you described, DO NOT be blackmailed into a return, else do not refund before the item is returned and don't be too eager to pay return costs either, you might lose that too! In my case the buyer was taken aback because I sent the return satchel, stated she would carry the costs, I insisted on the return satchel, I guess I thwarted her little plan to claim "lost in the post"? The return satchel was not the key though, I was going to send a friend who lives near the Buyer to collect the item, 2 days later it magically appeared on my doorstep! Yeah....

Online buying and selling is a highly psychological process, do not be blackmailed about the items you sell!!!!!

Re: Is a refund without return of goods normal practice?

davewil1964 — Sun, 10 Nov 2013 06:11:47 GMT

I don't think anybody here with any experience has ever recommended refunding BEFORE return, whether you send them the means of return or not.

Re: Is a refund without return of goods normal practice?

zelly888 — Sun, 10 Nov 2013 06:20:36 GMT

Buyer must be insane if they think that you would refund them money before they return the item,it's just like returning something at a shop the shop won't refund you until you give them the item back first.

Re: Is a refund without return of goods normal practice?

zigzagdot — Sun, 10 Nov 2013 06:25:06 GMT

I merely related my experience of being blackmailed and stupid enough to refund before receiving a return.

Furthermore, beware of Buyers who leave 100% feedback and then try to negotiate a refund OUTSIDE of the eBay Resolution process, it is nothing but blackmail! I have left good feedback but..... the item has BO.....we don't want to say that in public.

Psychological blackmail... I had the garment examined by a professional dry cleaner once I got it back and it was passed 100% for hygiene! But I felt compromised at the time because my sense of smell is not the best! Do not fall into a psychological blackmail trap, no matter what the complaint about your item, if you are confident about what you sent, stick to it, even if you face bad feedback, else we continue the cycle of being blackmailed. Catch 22 but what is best for long term?

Re: Is a refund without return of goods normal practice?

zelly888 — Sun, 10 Nov 2013 06:32:53 GMT

Then you need to do the old reverse phsycology and say that they need to use a better BO spray

Re: Is a refund without return of goods normal practice?

zigzagdot — Sun, 10 Nov 2013 06:42:28 GMT

yeah the problem is that, even if you are just a CASUAL seller like me, you have to remain PROOOOFESSIONAL at all costs, even if you are being blackmailed for your own goods! You are being accused of selling smelly goods but you can't boomerang that back on the Buyer, even if every part of your being wants to. You are dealing with someone who has an agenda and a scheme, someone who knows the price of keeping up appearances (good feedback), even if it is really smelly underneath......

Re: Is a refund without return of goods normal practice?

davewil1964 — Sun, 10 Nov 2013 11:11:53 GMT

@zigzagdot wrote:
yeah the problem is that, even if you are just a CASUAL seller like me, you have to remain PROOOOFESSIONAL at all costs, even if you are being blackmailed for your own goods! You are being accused of selling smelly goods but you can't boomerang that back on the Buyer, even if every part of your being wants to. You are dealing with someone who has an agenda and a scheme, someone who knows the price of keeping up appearances (good feedback), even if it is really smelly underneath......

Not really, given buyers can only get positive feedback.

I suppose it depends on personality - some people can't be blackmailed - and that must be transmittable through the ether - so buyers don't try it on. Or maybe they come across a more professional than others.

I don't sell clothes, btw, and would never venture into that minefield.

Re: Is a refund without return of goods normal practice?

zigzagdot — Mon, 11 Nov 2013 05:22:55 GMT

Looks like you got hit by a minefield, what on earth has personality got to do with the fact that eBay's limitations on Seller feedback allows Buyer's to exploit you, get you over a barrel so they don't leave feedback, EVERYONE knows that, even periodic, casual Sellers like me.

I don't care what you sell, I sell clothes, SO WHAT ???????????????????? I enjoy selling clothes, minefields and all. Should I stop selling clothes and do what you do, play thought police on a Discussion Forum?

Re: Is a refund without return of goods normal practice?

davewil1964 — Mon, 11 Nov 2013 06:27:18 GMT

Personality determines whether you allow buyers to blackmail you. I don't particularly care if a buyer doesn't leave feedback - it's better no feedback than negative feedback.

Plus I sell for money, not feedback and there is no way I would allow a buyer to blackmail me with feedback. Especially if I could get them to make the threat, at which point any negative will be removed by eBay.

Re: Is a refund without return of goods normal practice?

i-once-was-bump — Mon, 11 Nov 2013 07:37:17 GMT

I thought this thread was about a radio.

If you want the item back then get it back before you refund.

I know some here don't see the point of getting back a damaged item but I do because there are a lot of items out there that are valuable even if damaged.

Sure if one was selling secondhand clothes one might think a photo sufficient proof to let the buyer keep the item as well as a refund.

Re: Is a refund without return of goods normal practice?

davewil1964 — Mon, 11 Nov 2013 10:32:39 GMT

Apparently if a non-OP decides another poster is unqualified a simple request will close a PUBLIC board to all non-like minded members.

Not going to go into the issues of like-minded members reinforcing each others misconceptions.