topic Re: AUSTRALIA POST & FRAGILE ITEMS INSURANCE RIPP OFF in Selling

AUSTRALIA POST & FRAGILE ITEMS INSURANCE RIPP OFF

reallyhardtofind — Sat, 23 Nov 2013 10:36:03 GMT

I recently had an antique vase broken on its travels though Auspost, so I told the buyer to claim it through Auspost as it was insured, to my surprise the buyer contacted me and said that the item was not covered by auspost because it was fragile.. Now when I go to the Auspost website and follow their instructions on fragile packing I find ;

Fragile items (e.g. glass)

Wrap each item in tissue paper or newspaper
Put them into an inner container and put the inner container into a corrugated cardboard outer container
Surround the inner container with cushioning material such as bubble wrap on the top, bottom and all sides to limit movement and protect the item
Close the outer container with reinforced tape.......

Reading the above on the website is encouraging people to send fragiles(misleading)

After adhering to these terms I get told its not covered and the insurance was werthless and that no fragile items are covered by Auspost. My concern is how many other people are getting the same treatment and how misleading "the website is on fragile items", "how many people are paying for insurance when they will not be covered at all?" This is clearly a scam and comming up to christmas, with alcohol, glass and pottery objects etc.....AUSPOST should state clearly what is covered and what's not covered by insurance etc. I didn't relize how lucky I have been, let alone as well as other sellers, after sending thousands of dollars worth of fragile items over the years, Clearly it has been dumb luck until now. The only clause I have found relating to damage etc is this clause;

Limitation of liability
To the maximum extent permitted by law Australia Post excludes completely all liability whatsoever for any loss or damage of any kind (including special, indirect or consequential loss and including loss of business profits) however caused (including negligence) arising out of or in connection with the Services, PostPay, the Website or the use or performance of the Website.

You agree to indemnify Australia Post and its officers, agents and employees ("Indemnified Parties") in respect of any claim, action, damage, loss, liability, cost, charge, expense, outgoing or payment (including legal expenses (on a full indemnity basis) arising from or relating to:

(a) Your use of the Services, PostPay or the Website;
(b) a breach of these Terms of Use by You; or
(c) Your breach of any applicable law.

Not once do I see anything relating to fragile items in this clause and or on the website, the fact that "fragile items are not covered at all" has not been "DIRECTLY" mentioned. This is very concerning and after getting nowhere with auspost, I will chase this matter up with the correct authorities and have mentioned this just for the purpose of other sellers so they dont get ripped off paying for insurance on fragile items when they will not be covered for anyway....SHAME ON YOU AUSTRALIA POST...... as a result of this I will cease trading on ebay with fragiles such as antique pottery,glass,porcelain etc and that makes me sad because it was a fun hobby and I enjoyed finding those cool things for people over the years...

Re: AUSTRALIA POST & FRAGILE ITEMS INSURANCE RIPP OFF

thecatspjs — Sat, 23 Nov 2013 10:49:51 GMT

The is no exlusion of fragile items in their extra cover terms and conditions. However, all goods must be packaged in accordance with their instructions, which you indicate you have done.

Have you spoken to Australia Post directly regarding the actual assessment ? or relied soley on the buyers communications with AP, it may be that they have spoken to a AP rep or PO staff member who is clueless about the terms and conditions of their products.

The damaged goods and all the packaging must be taken to AP by the buyer, and a claim form completed, the goods and packaging may have to be left so they can be sent for assessment.

If the procedure has been followed properly, an assessment is made and written advice is issued on their decision.

I would clarify, as politely as one can, with the buyer exactly where and when the parcel and its packaging were taken for assessment and try and ascertain if the buyer completed a claim form at all.

I would take it from there .... you may have to file a complaint with AP regarding particular advice provided by one of their reps, or if it has been assessed and denied, appeal their decision if there are grounds to.

Re: AUSTRALIA POST & FRAGILE ITEMS INSURANCE RIPP OFF

*crikey*mate* — Sat, 23 Nov 2013 11:46:56 GMT

"fragile items are not covered at all" has not been "DIRECTLY" mentioned."

did it say anywhere that frgaile items were covered?

You have to remember that Consumer/Contract/Civil Law "tells you what you can do". Criminal Law tells you what you can't do.

With their insurance, do they say what is covered?

Re: AUSTRALIA POST & FRAGILE ITEMS INSURANCE RIPP OFF

*crikey*mate* — Sat, 23 Nov 2013 12:28:46 GMT

EXTRA COVER SERVICE

EXTRA COVER SERVICETERMS AND CONDITIONS

Re: AUSTRALIA POST & FRAGILE ITEMS INSURANCE RIPP OFF

reallyhardtofind — Sat, 23 Nov 2013 12:47:28 GMT

6.1 Australia Post shall not be liable for any amount by which the replacement, reconstruction and/or market value of an article, as applicable, exceeds the Limit in respect of that article.

6.2 Australia Post shall not be liable for any amount claimed under the Service:

6.2.1 where, in the reasonable opinion of Australia Post, damage to or loss of an article arises directly or indirectly from the failure of the sender to adequately wrap or package the article;

6.2.2 where damage to or loss of an article arises from causes beyond the control of Australia Post including but not limited to natural disasters, acts of war or civil unrest; or

6.2.3 which is consequential or special damage or other indirect loss howsoever arising, including but not limited to, loss of profits, interest, income, utility or loss of market opportunities.

6.3 To the extent permitted by law and notwithstanding anything contained in this part, where a person entitled to claim payment under the Service is also entitled to recover in respect of their loss under a policy of insurance or otherwise, other than from Australia Post, the amount payable under the Service shall be reduced by the amount of any recovery by the person, including recovery under any policy of insurance.

6.4 A Claimant will not be entitled to recover more than the amount of its actual loss.

Re: AUSTRALIA POST & FRAGILE ITEMS INSURANCE RIPP OFF

reallyhardtofind — Sat, 23 Nov 2013 12:48:04 GMT

Just proves insurance is a ripp off

Re: AUSTRALIA POST & FRAGILE ITEMS INSURANCE RIPP OFF

thecatspjs — Sat, 23 Nov 2013 13:01:15 GMT

There is nothing in those clauses that precludes your buyer from making a claim - unless the goods were inadequately packaged.

I can't see what the problem is TBH

Re: AUSTRALIA POST & FRAGILE ITEMS INSURANCE RIPP OFF

*crikey*mate* — Sat, 23 Nov 2013 13:05:05 GMT

@reallyhardtofind wrote:
Just proves insurance is a ripp off

What type of insurance did you have?

I'm really havuing trouble finding their insurance policy. By insurance are you referring to "Extra Cover"?

Re: AUSTRALIA POST & FRAGILE ITEMS INSURANCE RIPP OFF

reallyhardtofind — Sat, 23 Nov 2013 13:18:27 GMT

the whole website is vague espcially with insurance and what they actually cover.......you hit the nail on the head there ....is nothing clear about anything with what auspost has written on their website....rgds to fragile items and insurance .....Im going to contact ACA or Today tonight I'm sure it will grab their attention ......

Re: AUSTRALIA POST & FRAGILE ITEMS INSURANCE RIPP OFF

thecatspjs — Sat, 23 Nov 2013 13:30:49 GMT

The terms and conditions of APs products are available on their website. They are quite clear as far as I can see. If you have paid for extra cover, the item was not prohibited or excluded and packaged in accordance with their advice then your buyer can make a claim if they follow the prescribed procedure. If they have done so, then you can assist your buyer to appeal the decision if there are grounds.

Can't really assist you anymore than that with the sketchy details you have provided. So best wishes for pursuit through media, if picked up by press that of course can get a positive result regardless of any T&C lol.

Re: AUSTRALIA POST & FRAGILE ITEMS INSURANCE RIPP OFF

reallyhardtofind — Sat, 23 Nov 2013 13:39:54 GMT

FRAGILE is not covered at all .......fragile .......your insurance will apply to anything else but fragile .........fragile

Re: AUSTRALIA POST & FRAGILE ITEMS INSURANCE RIPP OFF

*crikey*mate* — Sat, 23 Nov 2013 13:46:23 GMT

I think that 6.2 and 8.13 are where they are going to get around the "fragile item" thing.

I have found stuff going back from 2009 where AP have claimed unequivocally that they do not cover fragile items, that all items are carried in the same manner and not given any preferential treatment etc.Talk of unable to see inside mail bags, and that must be able tom withstand a 20 kg box being fropped on it.

So they will fall back on ?obviously the item was not properly packaged"

They do not say that if you follow their packing TIPS, that this will guarantee they will not break - they are exactly that - TIPS to have a shot at getting there iykwim.

Anyway, good luck with the media.

BTW, you never actually said if you DID follow the AP packaging tips for fragile items, did you?

Re: AUSTRALIA POST & FRAGILE ITEMS INSURANCE RIPP OFF

*crikey*mate* — Sat, 23 Nov 2013 13:46:54 GMT

@reallyhardtofind wrote:
FRAGILE is not covered at all .......fragile .......your insurance will apply to anything else but fragile .........fragile

where has this come from?

Re: AUSTRALIA POST & FRAGILE ITEMS INSURANCE RIPP OFF

reallyhardtofind — Sat, 23 Nov 2013 13:48:16 GMT

YES Im trying to help my buyer.....the use of the word fragile changes everything........they have been quite plain about fragile items and insurance I will chase it up on monday I have read the entire website and if you read carefully they cover their bottom but the fragile changes everything ring em up yourself ....I know someone who sells tea set bulk lots and auspost will not honour insurance on fragile items.......hope you never have the same trouble ......

Re: AUSTRALIA POST & FRAGILE ITEMS INSURANCE RIPP OFF

*crikey*mate* — Sat, 23 Nov 2013 13:51:44 GMT

well, I guess that the iunsurance wasn't a complete waste or loss - if they had have lost it, instead of it being broken, you would have been covered for more than the discressionary p[ayment of $50

One thing I did learn in all this is you can post some live animals......

that spun me out a bit/

Re: AUSTRALIA POST & FRAGILE ITEMS INSURANCE RIPP OFF

reallyhardtofind — Sat, 23 Nov 2013 13:52:25 GMT

"After adhering to these terms"

yes I did

second paragraph

sorry "adhering or following" what ever

Re: AUSTRALIA POST & FRAGILE ITEMS INSURANCE RIPP OFF

reallyhardtofind — Sat, 23 Nov 2013 13:54:13 GMT

I wish it was lost lol

animals lol

Re: AUSTRALIA POST & FRAGILE ITEMS INSURANCE RIPP OFF

*crikey*mate* — Sat, 23 Nov 2013 14:02:58 GMT

Maybe a loop hole - but I think we are clutching

Section 27 (4b)

Australian Postal Corporation Act 1989

(4) Australia Post shall ensure:

(b) that the performance standards (including delivery times) for
the letter service reasonably meet the social, industrial and
commercial needs of the Australian community.

.....................................

BUT 26 kind of really covers their butts

26 Commercial obligation
Australia Post shall, as far as practicable, perform its functions in a
manner consistent with sound commercial practice

Re: AUSTRALIA POST & FRAGILE ITEMS INSURANCE RIPP OFF

*crikey*mate* — Sat, 23 Nov 2013 14:04:00 GMT

@reallyhardtofind wrote:
"After adhering to these terms"
yes I did
second paragraph
sorry "adhering or following" what ever

oops sorry.....

Re: AUSTRALIA POST & FRAGILE ITEMS INSURANCE RIPP OFF

reallyhardtofind — Sat, 23 Nov 2013 14:07:21 GMT

what bothers me is people are buying insurance for ""fragile items"" or items that could be ""deemed fragile"" thinking they are covered but they are not, this is misleading and the regular joe should know, who reads the terms and condition of auspost lol only me....and not many would understand their legal jargin anyways

thats my beaf