topic Re: Unhappy buyer in Selling

Unhappy buyer

pretty_prettys — Fri, 22 Nov 2013 09:57:35 GMT

I purchased a camera from an Australian Camera Supplier in Western Australia. I was referred to him via Whirlpool forums and he had the best price I could find. The supplier covers the camera under their warranty for 12 months.

I had to sell the camera and some storage disks as I had some expensive dental work to pay for unfortunately.

I started the bid from $1 and it ended up selling for $1000.

Now the buyer is complaining that I misled him saying that the camera I purchased was from a grey importer and not an australian supplier. The company I purchased the camera from is a registered company in Australia. He sells photographic equipment to professionals and on his website is very transparent about his warranties etc etc. .

The buyer is nasty and complaining that the warranty isn't good enough. I had in my listing that it was from an Australian Supplier and was under 12 months warranty. Nothing I have said has been a lie or misleading. There were lots of people bidding for the camera.

Now he is saying he is going to lodge a complaint with paypal. I'm very upset about this and I don't know what to do. I've done nothing wrong and I wish I had the camera back and hadn't had to sell it becasue it was a lovely camera. .

Anyway, any feedback form anyone would be really appreciated.

Cheers

Re: Unhappy buyer

davewil1964 — Fri, 22 Nov 2013 10:06:00 GMT

He will have to return the camera at his expense, by trackable means, in order to get a refund from Paypal. He will also, I believe, have to tell Paypal how the camera was not as described. Which you can dispute, once he returns it.

Wait. A lot of threats are exactly that and if he can't provide proof, he should lose. You might have to twist Paypal's arm, but there are plenty of members who can advise you on that.

Re: Unhappy buyer

*crikey*mate* — Fri, 22 Nov 2013 10:06:13 GMT

Have you got the receipt from when you bought the item? That should have the details of exactly where you bought the item.

define grey importer. Why does the buyer think this is where the camera came fronm?

define Australian Supplier. Why does the customer think the camera didn't come from there?

What is it about the warrANTY that isn't good enough? Did you state otherwise at any time?

When he lodges a case with PayPal, you take a deep breath and you answer all of their questions. I assume he will say "SNAD" however his issue is with the warranty and from where you purchased it. So first it has to be established if that is sufficient to be classified as SIGNIFICANT, and if your description somehow l;ed the buyer to believe otherwise.

Re: Unhappy buyer

*crikey*mate* — Fri, 22 Nov 2013 10:11:55 GMT

Is the camera still uinder warranty?

Did the buyer ask you any specifics about the warranty?

Did the bidder have any contact with you at all prior to winning the auction?

Re: Unhappy buyer

*crikey*mate* — Fri, 22 Nov 2013 10:14:37 GMT

Just putting the relevant description heree, so I can close the page....

Nikon D7100 Digital SLR Camera

I purchased this camera brand new from an Australian Camera Supplier 3 months ago and unfortunately I have to sell it. It is still under warranty.

It's an awesome camera, barely used - taken under 500 shots. Comes with 2 SanDisk Extreme 32GB memory storage cards and also a handy camera bag.

.....................................

Buyer placed one bid about 15 secoinds before auction ended.

Re: Unhappy buyer

digital*ghost — Fri, 22 Nov 2013 10:51:04 GMT

Most warranties are not transferrable - you're better off not mentioning them in a listing at all, unless you can guarantee that they will be honoured.

That aside, if it's the brand and model as listed, I don't think the buyer has much chance of winning a SNAD claim because where it originated from is irrelevant.

Re: Unhappy buyer

pretty_prettys — Fri, 22 Nov 2013 11:24:05 GMT

Is the camera still under warranty? Yes it is. . .

Did the buyer ask you any specifics about the warranty? He asked if I had the receipt for the warranty and I said I did. . and I did!

Did the bidder have any contact with you at all prior to winning the auction? Yes he asked me about the receipt and warranty as above.

Re: Unhappy buyer

davewil1964 — Fri, 22 Nov 2013 11:36:42 GMT

i need to learn to read.

Re: Unhappy buyer

pretty_prettys — Fri, 22 Nov 2013 11:38:12 GMT

Pardon?

Re: Unhappy buyer

pretty_prettys — Fri, 22 Nov 2013 11:44:46 GMT

This is the first time I've been on the Ebay communities forum though I've been on ebay for ages and never had any issues until now.

Anyway, Id just like to thank you peeps above for your advice and insight into this. . I've been so upset about it and I feel a lot better now after reading your replies. I didn't misrepresent the item and I think in my heart that this guy is just suffering from buyers remorse maybe? I don't know why as he got a camera and storage disks which were all pretty much brand new for $300 less . . and he's complaing about the warranty which is still valid but it's only for 12 months anyway. There's nothing wrong with the camera. It works perfectly. Anyway, I'll shut up now . . Thank you xx

Re: Unhappy buyer

thecatspjs — Fri, 22 Nov 2013 11:47:55 GMT

IMO do not wait until the buyer returns the camera to dispute a paypal claim - the time to dispute it is when a buyer opens a claim and escalates it to a dispute on the basis that it as not as described as they claim.

Paypal give you the opportunity to defend yourself against a not as described claim. TBH I have escalated a couple of disputes opened by a couple of buyers that were making outrageous, untrue claims that I was easily able to prove to paypal were untrue, and I won each of those disputes. No-one had to return anything, both claims were done and dusted.

If you have the original receipt and other documentation that is detailed enough to prove the goods were exactly as those listed and the supplier and warranty were also as described, then scan it and upload that documentation in the claims process, as well as outlining several paragraphs of why the goods were exactly as described, a succinct version of the communication between yourself and the buyer and if there is any other details that are relevant to support the goods are excactly as described.

I also think it is worth drafting the exact wording of your response to a claim before you enter it in the relevant section on the dispute page, to make sure it is very clear, sounds fair and reasonable and references any supporting evidence you upload such as receipts. You can then cut and paste a well considered response, and not have to be concerned about paypal page timing out - as does happen on occassion.

EDIT - lol OP you have posted whilst I was writing my post - thats good that your feeling better about the matter

Re: Unhappy buyer

pretty_prettys — Fri, 22 Nov 2013 11:57:05 GMT

So thecatspjs, at what point do I need to draft the letter to paypal/ebay? Should I do it now or do I wait until the buyer does something?

I'm just aghast about it because there is NOTHING in my description that has been misrepresented. I have the copy of the receipt and invoice and I have photos that I put on ebay of the camera . . I don't have any other documentation about it apart from emails from me to the supplier about me purchasing it.

you know I even paid amost double the postage to send the camera to him via express post - very unappreciate person he is indeed!

Re: Unhappy buyer

davewil1964 — Fri, 22 Nov 2013 11:59:26 GMT

I posted something erroneous, so had to edit in order to not leave myself exposed. Nothing to do with your issue, just an issue of mine.

Re: Unhappy buyer

thecatspjs — Fri, 22 Nov 2013 12:06:46 GMT

@pretty_prettys wrote:
So thecatspjs, at what point do I need to draft the letter to paypal/ebay? Should I do it now or do I wait until the buyer does something?

I'm just aghast about it because there is NOTHING in my description that has been misrepresented. I have the copy of the receipt and invoice and I have photos that I put on ebay of the camera . . I don't have any other documentation about it apart from emails from me to the supplier about me purchasing it.

you know I even paid amost double the postage to send the camera to him via express post - very unappreciate person he is indeed!

I would wait until the buyer actually does open a paypal claim.

If they were really unhappy and truly believed they were misled I am surprised they haven't already, maybe they are just having a whinge trying to get a partial refund, or maybe they are genuinely concerned, my advice would be to wait and see what happens.

Paypal give you quite a few days to respond to a dispute and then to a claim if it is escalated, so there is ample time to refine a response to any claim. Fingers crossed though, it may not even occur.

Re: Unhappy buyer

pretty_prettys — Fri, 22 Nov 2013 21:19:22 GMT

I have now received a message from the buyer saying:

"As I said I would not have bid at all if I had been told it was not Australian stock.You call My camera focus and ask him if it is if you think I'm mistaken.I now am at the stage of wanting a partial 150.00 refund.If you don't agree I will file a item not as described case and leave appropriate feedback."

What should I do now? I didn't misrepresent he item (see my items descritpion above) . . He never NEVER asked me if it was AUSTRALIAN STOCK . . . he asked me if I had the receipt. That is the ONLY question that he asked me prior to bidding 11 seconds before the auction ended. Unfact no one asked me if it was Australian stock. They asked me about the receipt and if was damaged etc. . My description is described exactly as it is.

Sorry about this peeps. . your further guidance in this would be really appreciated!!

Re: Unhappy buyer

beach_and_home — Fri, 22 Nov 2013 22:26:31 GMT

I would pay the refund and end the matter asap. I know a lot of people will not agree with that, but basically it is a second hand camera and the warranty is NOT transferable so you are lucky he's only asking for $150. I'm not saying you did anything wrong, I'm just saying that for me, an end to the hassle would be worth the $150. Otherwise this will go on and on.......and on and on.......and on.

Re: Unhappy buyer

pretty_prettys — Fri, 22 Nov 2013 23:04:54 GMT

I hear what you are saying beach_and_home but there was a bidder who was about to pay $990. If this idiot (and I know that is rude of me to say but he is an idiot) hadn't jumped in at the last moment and bidded and won the item then it would have gone to the previous bidder and they more than likely would have been happy with their purchase. I have already lost over $300 in the purchase so yes it is a 2nd hand camera and storage disks but they aren't paying brand new prices for it. I only bought it 3 months ago and barely used it.

Re: Unhappy buyer

digital*ghost — Fri, 22 Nov 2013 23:54:23 GMT

@pretty_prettys wrote:
I have now received a message from the buyer saying:

"As I said I would not have bid at all if I had been told it was not Australian stock.You call My camera focus and ask him if it is if you think I'm mistaken.I now am at the stage of wanting a partial 150.00 refund.If you don't agree I will file a item not as described case and leave appropriate feedback."

What should I do now? I didn't misrepresent he item (see my items descritpion above) . . He never NEVER asked me if it was AUSTRALIAN STOCK . . . he asked me if I had the receipt. That is the ONLY question that he asked me prior to bidding 11 seconds before the auction ended. Unfact no one asked me if it was Australian stock. They asked me about the receipt and if was damaged etc. . My description is described exactly as it is.

Sorry about this peeps. . your further guidance in this would be really appreciated!!

I would ask them some questions, and not in a challenging way, rather more to try and undertsand their position. Buyers who have a problem, first and foremost, like to have it acknowledged, and it might help you figure out the best way to proceed or respond if you don't already understand why this is a problem for him.

That is, politely ask them to explain why they believe what they do, and how it affects the camera - that is, its performance and value.

Re: Unhappy buyer

thecatspjs — Sat, 23 Nov 2013 00:07:20 GMT

Gosh what a "tricky" buyer you seem to have struck.

Firstly in relation to warranties just to prevent another board furphy from developing - there really can be no blanket statement that warranties are not transferable. Some are, some are not.

For example, warranties for Samsung products are usually transferrable if Samsung is notified of transfer of ownership. Many other manufacturers offer warranty transfers as well.

Generally from what I can gather via google Nikon does not provide transferrable warranties, however that does not negate a buyer negotiating additional terms with a seller for return of goods to them during the warranty period if a defect arises, for the seller to pursue through the original warranty.

Re: Unhappy buyer

thecatspjs — Sat, 23 Nov 2013 00:06:43 GMT

Based on their last email message including further allegations, and an attempt to extort $150 from you or they will open a paypal claim , I personally ( so this is the way I would go, but do not expect anyone else to) would politely indicate to them that you would only consider their request if they open a paypal claim for this partial refund - as you are not comfortable refunding outside of the formal dispute process.

If they don't open a claim - the only option they have left is to continue to harrass you which can be reported to ebay, and leave you negative feedback - which is unlikely to be removed.

If they do open a paypal dispute (and they don't immeadiatley escalate to a claim - which they can do) - you can consider the comments they provide via the resolution centre and choose to do one of three things:

- offer a partial refund

- offer a full refund on return of the goods to you

- decline to refund anything and the dispute will automatically escalate to a claim - (what I would do)

If the dispute is escalated to a claim it is likely paypal will put the funds for the sale on hold - if you do not have that amount still in paypal the account goes into arrears, and until it reaches a positve balance again - (through other payments received or through resolution of the dispute).

If they win a claim they will have to return the camera back to you by trackable post to get their refund. They can still leave negative feedback.

If you win a claim - funds on hold are restored to your account - and they can still leave negative feedback but you can seek ebay remove that feedback as the paypal dispute was found in your favour, which is one of the reasons that ebay can remove feedback.