topic Re: Frist ever for not as described item in Selling

Frist ever for not as described item

*sparklz* — Mon, 08 Oct 2012 11:19:01 GMT

Long story short here.

With over 5000 sales I have NEVER had to deal with an item not as described dispute.

Buyer put in offer, offer accepted paid and posted.

Buy starts to ask questions after item is posted and realises she has purchased the wrong size item.

Description was 100% accurate re the item and size.

Buyer not in the know assumed she was getting bigger version.

Buyer then opens dispute for item not received less than 24 hrs after paying.

I call PP and tell them the item was paid for less than 24 hours ago.

PP say just wait and see what happens.

Next day buyer changes dispute to not as described.

Tracking shows the item is still in transit and not even delivered.

Call to PP again, they close the dispute and release money back to PP account.

2 days later buyer opens another not as described dispute saying item is not new as per description.

I supply all the proof possible to show it is exactly as described along with the history of the buyers disputes after a change of mind.

Paypal tell buyer to return to seller on the 27/9 for refund by the by 8th Oct

Today the final day buyer enters tracking number for return of item.

So what happens if

a) the item is exactly as described and the buyer was using any excuse to get the refund (which is the case) as the item is as described.

b) they have damaged or used the item in the 10 days it was in their possession before returning it.

What proof would I need to send PP to win this dispute.

The buyer has sent abusive and profanity filed language via the ebay messages (which have been reported)

I can not understand how after opening 2 disputes BEFORE they even had the item that PP would even find in her favor when it was obviously a change of mind or buyers remorse.

Re: Frist ever for not as described item

bsal6160 — Mon, 08 Oct 2012 11:35:34 GMT

Sparklz, i know this is not going to be what you want to hear BUT eBay policy is as below:

Important information for sellers: consumer guarantees, returns and warranties

Sellers are required under Australian law to accept returns for goods purchased from a business and provide Australian consumers with a repair, replacement or refund if the goods:

Are faulty, or become faulty within a reasonable period of time after purchase

Are not fit for any purpose you stated or that the buyer made known to you (i.e. they don't do what you said they would do)

Don’t match your description or sample

Are of unacceptable quality, or

Fail to meet other mandatory consumer guarantees under the Australian Consumer Law.

Re: Frist ever for not as described item

lyndal1838 — Mon, 08 Oct 2012 11:40:33 GMT

bsal, how does that apply to a private seller of childrens toys that was correctly described?

Re: Frist ever for not as described item

*sparklz* — Mon, 08 Oct 2012 11:43:01 GMT

But it is none of those.

Are faulty, or become faulty within a reasonable period of time after purchase

They are not faulty it is a Beanie Kid Teddy bear. Brand New

Are not fit for any purpose you stated or that the buyer made known to you

It has no purpose other than for a child to cuddle or as a collectable.

Don’t match your description or sample

It is 100% exactly as described and as seen in photos.

Are of unacceptable quality,

It is perfect quality. In shop purchased condition

Fail to meet other mandatory consumer guarantees under the Australian Consumer Law.

Meets all laws as far as I know as they are sold in shops as is.

So none of these are reason to refund the buyer.

Re: Frist ever for not as described item

bsal6160 — Mon, 08 Oct 2012 12:01:51 GMT

Sparklz, i agree the buyer obviously changed mind BUT they could still claim Became faulty after a reasonable amount of time. Just saying thats all.

Re: Frist ever for not as described item

*sparklz* — Mon, 08 Oct 2012 12:04:58 GMT

They opened the dispute the day it was received.

In fact with in minutes of it arriving going by tracking and email dispute times so it is a load of bull.

It had not had a chance to become faulty and after 2 failures of disputes BEFORE they even got it should ring alarm bells if PP had looked at the history of the disputes.

Re: Frist ever for not as described item

jameshouseofstyle — Mon, 08 Oct 2012 12:08:14 GMT

Hello sparkz,

we had a very similar situation recently, but without the PP dispute as we allow returns anyway - what ever the reason, even if there is no reason.

You are worried what your buyer may have done for the 10 days that she kept your item, we had our item reurned after nearly a month - when it was posted it was perfect, nothing was spotted by any of us to suggest otherwise (otherwise it would definitelly not have been posted with a hope that no one will notice at the other end - that is not what we do) yet it came back damaged, and with absolutelly no good reason or explanation how on Earth could it have taken so long to return someone else's property especially if it was so bad to start with.

So, just like you - all we had to go on is the buyer's word about the condition.

In our case we just issued the full refund which is what we would have done in any case. Item was very cheap so it wasn't a great loss.

But good luck with it you are obviously an amazing seller not to encounter this sort of thing before! Well done.

With regards, January.

Re: Frist ever for not as described item

i-once-was-bump — Mon, 08 Oct 2012 12:08:16 GMT

You should know by now that beanie kid buyers are a weird mob.

Re: Frist ever for not as described item

bsal6160 — Mon, 08 Oct 2012 12:11:31 GMT

Well sparklz, this ping pong forum is fun (LOL). If I were you Iwould fight the claim however be mindful that according to you:

Paypal tell buyer to return to seller on the 27/9 for refund by the by 8th Oct

SO assume for the worse but pray for the best.

Re: Frist ever for not as described item

kopenhagen5 — Mon, 08 Oct 2012 12:15:31 GMT

Hi sparklz,

If that's 1 out of 5000, hey, smile about it and know you are better than the buyer. 😉

bump - :^O

Re: Frist ever for not as described item

*sparklz* — Mon, 08 Oct 2012 12:16:49 GMT

bsal

on the 27th paypal told the buyer to return the item and enter the tracking details by the 8th Oct.

They left it till the last possible moment to return the item.

Re: Frist ever for not as described item

*sparklz* — Mon, 08 Oct 2012 12:20:11 GMT

Thanks K5

But why should a buyer be allowed to do this and get away with it?

I have no idea how many times this buyer has pulled the same stunt.

I will fight this as best I can and in the end if they still get the refund then so be it but I will not let it go without a fight as a matter of principle.

The feedback she left was removed by ebay as they had the tracking details and could see they had not even had the item delivered to them yet to warrant leaving the FB they did .

I am sure they were annoyed about that 🙂

Re: Frist ever for not as described item

bsal6160 — Mon, 08 Oct 2012 12:21:02 GMT

Chalk that one up to experience and move on i say.

Re: Frist ever for not as described item

thecatspjs — Mon, 08 Oct 2012 12:39:27 GMT

Thanks K5

But why should a buyer be allowed to do this and get away with it?

I have no idea how many times this buyer has pulled the same stunt.

As others posted you are doing well to get this far without this happening.

It has happened to me a few times over a couple of years, where descriptions were 100% accurate and a buyer has appeared to have regretted their purchase, overlooked key details or made a mistake.

If the signs were there from the outset that the buyer was not happy with the purchase, even though the description was correct, I probably would have messaged and offered to refund on return of the item in the condition it was sent, less the postage and FVF paid.

Nonetheless, I do understand the principle you are standing by and hope that you get a suitable paypal resolution outcome.

Re: Frist ever for not as described item

digital*ghost — Mon, 08 Oct 2012 12:54:29 GMT

I would be disregarding the buyer at this stage and focussing my attention squarely on PayPal - if they find in the buyer's favour, I would dispute it on the grounds that the dispute was already closed in your favour and should not have been re-opened (and if PayPal want to give 'second chances' to buyers like this, they can foot the bill - no way would I accept having to give a full refund to this buyer. Purchase price - fine, if item is in exactly the same condition, but not the original post cost and/or any other expenses incurred).

This is very similar to the "cerise" case, if you'll recall the result of that. 😉

Re: Frist ever for not as described item

*sparklz* — Mon, 08 Oct 2012 13:20:12 GMT

January if you read all the messages from Helen you will see the apology from her. It was the last one she sent. 🙂

Re: Frist ever for not as described item

*sparklz* — Mon, 08 Oct 2012 13:24:15 GMT

Yea DG I vaguely remember something about that.

But how does one prove to paypal that the item is as described when they did not even take notice of all the proof that was sent on their request.

There was the description and photos to prove I sent what was described and after a 3rd attempt one assume PP could see it for what it was.

I even sent the link to the BK website to verify my description was accurate and still it was ignored.

Off to bed now.

Re: Frist ever for not as described item

digital*ghost — Mon, 08 Oct 2012 14:17:53 GMT

Yea DG I vaguely remember something about that.

But how does one prove to paypal that the item is as described when they did not even take notice of all the proof that was sent on their request.

I wouldn't try, I would contest their decision on the basis that they already found in your favour and returned the funds, therefore you have already "proven" to their satisfaction the buyer wasn't entitled to a refund on the grounds of INR or SNAD.

If PayPal choose to facilitate such an obviously fraudulent, spurious claim, IMHO they need to pay for it.

Re: Frist ever for not as described item

phorum_junkie* — Mon, 08 Oct 2012 14:48:53 GMT

Sounds a bit like the cerise saga, I won that one in the end with Paypal but unfortunately not at the buyer's expense.

Re: Frist ever for not as described item

tall_bearded — Mon, 08 Oct 2012 18:48:13 GMT

As all the facts point towards a change of mind return I would accept the return on condition that buyer bears all the out of pocket expenses incurred; both postages, all fees - eBay and PayPal etc, and I would communicate that offer to the buyer via PayPal.

Then if the buyer refuses, and PayPal gives the buyer a full refund, including the initial postage, I would collect all the paperwork together and lodge a dispute with the Financial Ombudsman Service.

You can then watch in amusement as PayPal tries to explain why, when all the evidence points to a change of mind claim, and though the PayPal policy specific precludes change of mind claims from their definition SNAD, they paid it anyway. But it won’t get to that point because, as soon as you lodge the dispute, PayPal will in all likelihood fold.